Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[JaumeJ]

Because your reply is to a post directed at me, I cannot help but be led to believe your comment is supposed to mean something to me. Since you have left it cryptic, I will overlook it unless you have some desire to let it all out.l

I see you have place a warning about apostasy ahead in one of your earlier posts. I, not being cryptic, may reveal to you that apostasy began the moment our Lord ascended to the Right Hand of power. There were false disciples before Yeshua was crucified. How much more this tendency has developed to this day giving reason to Yeshua's mention of how apostasy would abound before He returns.

I hope you do not think apostasy is going to begin in an instant. As soon as the sheep were being drawn away from the faith of Abraham, it began..........Yeshua knows, and He has told us all we need know in advance, amen.

eventually there will be no turning back for some Grandpa.
i've been watching this whole thing unfold for over a decade.


Galatians 3:1
Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ's death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross.

 

[zone]

You cannot be a true Christ follower without being a God the Father follower. How could you repeat the Lord's prayer? Christ said to address it to the Father.

The NT is taking the OT God principles and showing how Christ fulfilled them. To only read the fulfillment without letting yourself know the base is like trying to go to high school without anything of grade school.

could anyone who hasn't read the Old Testament (which is quoted throughout in the New) please stand up?

RedTent, you can dress this up any way you want to.

Galatians 3
1Oh stupid Galatians! Who has rivaled you? For behold, The Fashioner was portrayed before your eyes, Yeshua The Messiah, when he was crucified. 2This only I wish to know of you: Did you receive The Spirit by the works of The Written Law or by the hearing of faith? 3Are you so foolish that you began in The Spirit and now you finish in the flesh? 4Have you endured all these things for nothing? But oh, that it were for nothing! 5Is he, therefore, who gives The Spirit among you, and does miracles among you, of the works of The Written Law, or of the hearing of faith?

6Just as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness, 7Know therefore that those who are of faith are the children of Abraham. 8For because God knew beforehand that the nations are made right by faith, he preached The Good News to Abraham beforehand, as The Holy Scriptures say: “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, believers are blessed with the believer Abraham.

10For those who are of the works of The Written Law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who shall not do all that is written in this Law.” 11But that a man is not made right with God by The Written Law, this is revealed, because it is written: “The just shall live by faith.” 12But The Written Law was not from faith, but, “Whoever shall do those things that are written in it shall live in them.” 13But The Messiah has redeemed us from the curse of The Written Law, and he became a curse in our place, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”, 14That the blessing of Abraham would be with the nations by Yeshua The Messiah, and we would receive The Promise of The Spirit by faith.

15My brethren, I speak as among men, that a man does not reject or change anything in a man's covenant which has been confirmed. 16But The Promise was promised to Abraham and to his seed, and he did not say to him, “To your seeds”, as to many, but, “To your seed”, as of one, who is The Messiah. 17But I say this: The Covenant which was confirmed from the first by God in The Messiah, The Written Law which was 430 years afterward, cannot cast off and cancel The Promise. 18But if the inheritance is by The Written Law, it would therefore not be from The Promise to Abraham, but God gave it to him by The Promise.

19Why therefore is there The Written Law? It was added because of apostasy until The Seed would come to whom The Promise belonged, and The Written Law was given by Angels in the hand of a mediator. 20A mediator is not of one, but God is One. 21Is therefore The Written Law contrary to The Promise of God? God forbid! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, truly righteousness would have been by The Written Law. 22But the Scripture has shut all things up under sin, that The Promise by the faith of Yeshua The Messiah would be given to those who are believers.

23But until the faith would come, The Written Law had kept us while we were closed off to the faith that was going to be revealed. 24The Written Law was therefore a guide for us to The Messiah that we would be made right by faith. 25But when the faith came we were not under a guide. 26For you are all children of God by the faith of Yeshua The Messiah. 27For those who have been baptized into The Messiah have put on The Messiah. 28There is neither Jew nor Aramaean, neither Servant nor Free person, neither male nor female, for all of you are one in Yeshua The Messiah. 29And if you are of The Messiah, you are therefore the seed of Abraham and heirs by The Promise.


Aramaic Bible IN PLAIN ENGLISH!

 

[JaumeJ]

I have nothing against the teachings of Paul, especially keeping in mind his teaching that only Yeshua lived and died to give us His gospel. People should not in name or action conduct themselves as belonging to Paul in order to override and over rule the teachings of Yeshua.

People call themselves after the names of people in claiming to follow Yeshua, Calvinists, Lutherans, not to mention all the theologies with names named by man. Just men who receive honor from each other and not from Yahweh, so these people are driven by theologies and philosophies of mere men while they have the teachings of the Master availed to them at all times, yet they censor His teaching.

It is a pity there are so many who are so terribly quick and willing to transfer the receiving of truth from the Word, Yeshua, to men with agendas. Look, and you will see, all named Christian religions are founded by men, and their theologies differ from the original from small degrees to great.

I am proud of the Maker when I say, I am free to fellowship with anyone who is learned of the Messiah, whether they call Him Jesus, Yeshua, Iesous, Yesu, or whatever name in reverence. Blessed be our Savior, and blessed be His truth, amen.

 

[Grandpa]

The word, Jewish, is from the name of the patriarch of the tribe of Judah. When he was born, his mother in gratitude of delivering another child said, I will now praise Yahweh. This is the meaning of Judah. There is nothing more "Jewish" than to praise Yahweh.
Food for thought. The shortened name of those called Jewish is Jew the same as Yah, the name of the Father.

If I am Jewish it is only by translation. As for thinking I am Jewish, honestly, I never have, though I have been told by others I am Jewish. For me, to have the attributes of the meaning of the word, Jew, from its root meaning that is, is the highest praise a human may give another, for it is calling me a praiser of Yahweh. Thank you.

I guess I am not so mixed up after all........thanks for the naming though.

I think you added something to the meaning of Judah.

Did you know that the english translation of Judah is Judas? The disciple who betrayed Jesus his hebrew name was Judah.

That's pretty interesting wouldn't you say?

Romans 4:4-8
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

I'm still pretty sure you are mixed up between jewish and Israelite.

 

[JaumeJ]

The fact Judah betrayed our Savior fulfills prohecy, for He was to be betrayed by His own people and His own tribe, Judah and Judah was this too. I am sorry you are trying to change the Word, but you may look it up for yourself, then research the name from the Hebrew. I knew what it meant the first time I read it by the Holy Spirit. My Hebrew reading is only an exercise in a type of obedience I am capable of rendering the Father. It is not a prerequisite to be a believer, but it sure is intriguing.

Usually I try to share what I have learned in my own words with understanding, just as we also praise our Maker, however being dubbed as ignorant and as having perverted the Word as given me by the Holy Spirit, here is the quote:
Gen 29:35
And she conceived again, and bare a son. And she said, This time will I praise Jehovah. Therefore she called his name Judah. And she left off bearing.

I really do not like when people continuously inject the lol's and other inanities into the sharing of the Word. Believe me when I say, I do not laugh at anyone here. First it is not fitting for fellowship, and second it is downright rude. Good night all, from Spain...........

I think you added something to the meaning of Judah.

Did you know that the english translation of Judah is Judas? The disciple who betrayed Jesus his hebrew name was Judah.

That's pretty interesting wouldn't you say?

Romans 4:4-8
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

I'm still pretty sure you are mixed up between jewish and Israelite.

 

[Agricola]

I dont know about Hebrew Roots, but I know Levi Roots makes a fine sauce.

 

[Shiloah]

Amen, Amen and Amen!

Here's yet another Amen on that!

 

[Shiloah]

Because your reply is to a post directed at me, I cannot help but be led to believe your comment is supposed to mean something to me. Since you have left it cryptic, I will overlook it unless you have some desire to let it all out.l

I see you have place a warning about apostasy ahead in one of your earlier posts. I, not being cryptic, may reveal to you that apostasy began the moment our Lord ascended to the Right Hand of power. There were false disciples before Yeshua was crucified. How much more this tendency has developed to this day giving reason to Yeshua's mention of how apostasy would abound before He returns.

I hope you do not think apostasy is going to begin in an instant. As soon as the sheep were being drawn away from the faith of Abraham, it began..........Yeshua knows, and He has told us all we need know in advance, amen.

No JaumeJ. You need years of delving into the things of this world before you'll know. You have to have some specialized inner sight. Just loving God, studying scripture, and doing your best to serve God throughout your life, all the while falling on His grace just ain't gonna cut it. You have to be in the inner (secret) circle of understanding on issues such as this, or you're gonna go downnnnnnn.....

 

[Grandpa]

The fact Judah betrayed our Savior fulfills prohecy, for He was to be betrayed by His own people and His own tribe, Judah and Judah was this too. I am sorry you are trying to change the Word, but you may look it up for yourself, then research the name from the Hebrew. I knew what it meant the first time I read it by the Holy Spirit. My Hebrew reading is only an exercise in a type of obedience I am capable of rendering the Father. It is not a prerequisite to be a believer, but it sure is intriguing.

Usually I try to share what I have learned in my own words with understanding, just as we also praise our Maker, however being dubbed as ignorant and as having perverted the Word as given me by the Holy Spirit, here is the quote:
Gen 29:35
And she conceived again, and bare a son. And she said, This time will I praise Jehovah. Therefore she called his name Judah. And she left off bearing.

I really do not like when people continuously inject the lol's and other inanities into the sharing of the Word. Believe me when I say, I do not laugh at anyone here. First it is not fitting for fellowship, and second it is downright rude. Good night all, from Spain...........

If you say funny things I will laugh. If you stop saying funny things I will stop laughing. Well, probably not, people are funny...

John 4:23-24
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

My Hebrew reading is only an exercise in a type of obedience I am capable of rendering the Father.

lol... We have completely different ideas of what obedience to God is. If I thought, even for a moment, that any of the old jewish ways were obedience I would be sacrificing bulls and goats left and right. There would be blood all over the place and burnt flesh and ashes everywhere. I would sprinkle it on everyone, even atheists. I would build a tent and enter the holy of holies and sprinkle blood on my mercy seat. I would stand in the gap for everyone.

But that is blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thats not the way it works. That's not obedience to God. Obedience to God is Trusting in His Son that He has done all that for us and More, to the Highest, more than we could ask for or think.

I was actually thinking about learning hebrew, biblical hebrew, because I know a lot of the blessings that are shown by that language that are rendered differently or not at all by the english. But I dont know. What if I turn into a judaizing legalist? lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you say funny things I will laugh. If you stop saying funny things I will stop laughing. Well, probably not, people are funny...

John 4:23-24
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




lol... We have completely different ideas of what obedience to God is. If I thought, even for a moment, that any of the old jewish ways were obedience I would be sacrificing bulls and goats left and right. There would be blood all over the place and burnt flesh and ashes everywhere. I would sprinkle it on everyone, even atheists. I would build a tent and enter the holy of holies and sprinkle blood on my mercy seat. I would stand in the gap for everyone.

But that is blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thats not the way it works. That's not obedience to God. Obedience to God is Trusting in His Son that He has done all that for us and More, to the Highest, more than we could ask for or think.

I was actually thinking about learning hebrew, biblical hebrew, because I know a lot of the blessings that are shown by that language that are rendered differently or not at all by the english. But I dont know. What if I turn into a judaizing legalist? lol

A big amen!

And I am glad I am not the only one being yelled at for my lol's!

 

[RedTent]

lol... We have completely different ideas of what obedience to God is. If I thought, even for a moment, that any of the old jewish ways were obedience I would be sacrificing bulls and goats left and right. There would be blood all over the place and burnt flesh and ashes everywhere. I would sprinkle it on everyone, even atheists. I would build a tent and enter the holy of holies and sprinkle blood on my mercy seat. I would stand in the gap for everyone.

But that is blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ. lol

People on cc are saying that God wants obedience. God wants us to learn His ways. You are saying no God doesn't, we are to look to our own hearts after He enters in, and forget about anything written. You are on the side of forgetting the written law, as I understand you.

Now you turn around. Here you are saying not to look at His word that tells us Christ's actual blood took the place of the blood that was a shadow. You mean that if that is in your heart then you should go use animal blood? I don't think so. It is what God says we are to follow, God says to use the blood of Christ after He lived on earth and was crucified.

 

[zone]

No JaumeJ. You need years of delving into the things of this world before you'll know. You have to have some specialized inner sight. Just loving God, studying scripture, and doing your best to serve God throughout your life, all the while falling on His grace just ain't gonna cut it. You have to be in the inner (secret) circle of understanding on issues such as this, or you're gonna go downnnnnnn.....

didnt you say you wanted to stop vindictive and sarcastic presumptuous posts?
let's do it!

 

[zone]

People on cc are saying that God wants obedience. God wants us to learn His ways. You are saying no God doesn't, we are to look to our own hearts after He enters in, and forget about anything written. You are on the side of forgetting the written law, as I understand you.

ha?
you got Gramps confused with someone else.
he's posted FAR more (with understanding i'll add) of what's written than you have.
you post your emotionalism and personal preferences.

the second half of his post was what he thought he should be doing if HE WAS SUPPOSED TO ACT JEWISH.

 

[zone]

yes, the Hebrew roots Movement is a cult.

made up of gentiles who think they're going to be pleasing (more saved) to God by becoming jews.

in fact...they're departing from the faith delivered once for all.

 

[Shiloah]

didnt you say you wanted to stop vindictive and sarcastic presumptuous posts?
let's do it!

Ok Zone. Point well taken.

 

[Shiloah]

If you say funny things I will laugh. If you stop saying funny things I will stop laughing. Well, probably not, people are funny...

John 4:23-24
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




lol... We have completely different ideas of what obedience to God is. If I thought, even for a moment, that any of the old jewish ways were obedience I would be sacrificing bulls and goats left and right. There would be blood all over the place and burnt flesh and ashes everywhere. I would sprinkle it on everyone, even atheists. I would build a tent and enter the holy of holies and sprinkle blood on my mercy seat. I would stand in the gap for everyone.

But that is blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thats not the way it works. That's not obedience to God. Obedience to God is Trusting in His Son that He has done all that for us and More, to the Highest, more than we could ask for or think.

I was actually thinking about learning hebrew, biblical hebrew, because I know a lot of the blessings that are shown by that language that are rendered differently or not at all by the english. But I dont know. What if I turn into a judaizing legalist? lol

This Hebrew Movement is sacrificing bulls?

 

[RickShafer]

Recently my wife was accused of belonging to a cult called the Hebrew Roots Movement. I didn't know what it was, so I went to this url: What is the Hebrew Roots movement?
I am wanting input, for both my wife and I believe that the Mosaic Law was given to us as a tool by God himself and is still relevant today. This causes great division, but just because we believe in the Bible as a whole, has the falling away gotten to the point where we are rejecting in bitterness parts of the Word of God that we don't like or what?

No. Not rejecting any parts of the Bible.
The law was given as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.
The problem is when people say it is necessary to keep the law to be redeemed.
As if any man perfectly could? (Excepting Jesus)

 

[Shiloah]

Ok. I looked it up. They do NOT practice animal sacrifices. They see those as fulfilled by Christ's coming. So what's the big problem? It's just the same old argument between people who believe in keeping the sabbath on Saturday and those that don't. We've just added the Jewish factor. Maybe gentiles that join the messianic church group just want to understand the Jewish side of it. Why should we assume they think of themselves as more special because they've joined a Jewish church? I think that's pretty presumptuous. Hey! I'm just glad they've come to Jesus! Why are we picking on them so bad? Can't we at least try to rejoice over this?

Do these people claim keeping the law saves you? I've heard that accusation made against about every sabbath keeper I've ever known, and I personally know how wrong that accusation is. So I wouldn't be surprised if that accusation isn't misplaced here as well.

 

[KohenMatt]

are you really saying turning to jewish things pleases God?
the entire New Testament disagrees with you.

Jewish things? No.
God's Commands (the Torah)? Yes.

Deuteronomy 5:29 "Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!"

1 Samuel 15:22 "Samuel said, “Has the Lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams."

Deuteronomy 29:14,29 "“Now not with you alone am I making this covenant and this oath,15 but both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God and with those who are not with us here today.
“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law."

Matthew 5:17-19 "“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

shouldn't the Hebrew of Hebrews, of the tribe of Benjamin said something like:

Here there is no Gentile, uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all, and He was Jewish, so emulate Jewish ways?

nah....

If God said to keep His commandments forever, and Jesus said to keep His Father's commands, then Paul must be teaching the same thing. After all,

Galatians 1:8 "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!"

Remember, Jesus' words are our Gospel; not Paul's. Paul was a commentator for God/Jesus' words. So if you think Paul is saying that we don't have to follow the commandments, when Jesus clearly says to do so, well, that's a whole different kettle of fish. And that kettle stinks.

 

[crossnote]

I have nothing against the teachings of Paul, especially keeping in mind his teaching that only Yeshua lived and died to give us His gospel. People should not in name or action conduct themselves as belonging to Paul in order to override and over rule the teachings of Yeshua.

People call themselves after the names of people in claiming to follow Yeshua, Calvinists, Lutherans, not to mention all the theologies with names named by man. Just men who receive honor from each other and not from Yahweh, so these people are driven by theologies and philosophies of mere men while they have the teachings of the Master availed to them at all times, yet they censor His teaching.

It is a pity there are so many who are so terribly quick and willing to transfer the receiving of truth from the Word, Yeshua, to men with agendas. Look, and you will see, all named Christian religions are founded by men, and their theologies differ from the original from small degrees to great.

I am proud of the Maker when I say, I am free to fellowship with anyone who is learned of the Messiah, whether they call Him Jesus, Yeshua, Iesous, Yesu, or whatever name in reverence. Blessed be our Savior, and blessed be His truth, amen.

Neither should one in name or action conduct themselves as belonging to Yeshua in order to override and over rule the teachings of Paul!!
Why act as if there is a contradiction between what Yeshua taught and Paul?
Was Peter not part of the inner core of Yeshua's disciples? And did not Peter call Paul's writings Scripture? (2Pet 3:15-16)
Perhaps the problem comes from those who can't reconcile the purpose of Yeshua's coming with Paul's revelations FROM Yeshua to the Church, which incidentally is comprised of Jew and Gentile believers...One Body.
Many Messianics in order to follow the teachings of Christ end up downplaying Paul and in so doing UPPLAY Moses. I have seen this too many times.
It is unfair to put Paul on the same level as Calvin or Luther or any other Johnny come lately, Paul's writings were just as much God's Word as Matthew's, Mark or Luke. Actually Luke traveled much with Paul and witnessed the hell he went through with the Judaizers of his day (read Acts).
In Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians, those saying ''I follow Christ'' were also included (1Cor1:12) so be careful.