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The point of my comment was that laws do not cause holiness. If they could sin would stop and our prisons would be empty.
Removing laws and learning to love (Gods way) stops sin, will we be perfect ? No. but when we are traveling down the autobon we will drive in a way which is saved, and which is cautious to make sure we are keeping others in mind, and not so self focused, we go oyt and drive recklessly.
Yet they wrote their letters in greek, And as a prisoner of rome, were forced to learn the greek language as all members of rome were. so they were quite fluint in greek and hebrew.
Well with respect, did you miss your own point? Because whether under or over a law, the law has to exist in relation...but like you said with your autobahn jab, there is no law that exist on that road. Ergo it's minus a law. So lawless was your solution. If you mean one isn't under law anymore you need a better example is all.
I hate to say this but the question is answered by Paul, no.
Any inspection of the new testament should cover the dispute between the disciples staying Jewish or introducing gentiles to the faith without needing to be Jews. The conclusion was they could become christians without being Jews, having righteousness under grace empowered by Christs love in their hearts, not by the letter of the law which dictates they must be Jews, but which is now fulfilled by Christ so no longer relevant.
I wonder how a question could be asked if you have a simple understanding of church history and the bible.
Any inspection of the new testament should cover the dispute between the disciples staying Jewish or introducing gentiles to the faith without needing to be Jews. The conclusion was they could become christians without being Jews, having righteousness under grace empowered by Christs love in their hearts, not by the letter of the law which dictates they must be Jews, but which is now fulfilled by Christ so no longer relevant.
I wonder how a question could be asked if you have a simple understanding of church history and the bible.
Hmm...I'll leave this alone and respectfully ask, do you or does anyone have any challenge for the example or explanation I posted? Anything to prove it's inaccuracy? I only ask because what often happens is if a position is unable to be challenged usually redirection occurs (whether it's a quick change of subject, or a venture down a rabbit trail or a personal attack or derision). The dynamic between law and grace is important to understand, so for the edification of any readers here it's best to prove or disprove the substance thereof.
Here's a modern day example [with scripture context].
---Scene 1---
I'm speeding down the highway and get stopped by a state trooper.
He tells me I've been caught traveling just 10mph over the speed limit and gives me a $300k ticket. What are my options at this point?
Can I tell the officer that I'll personally travel at the speed limit from now on to ***undo** the ticket?
No, of course not. I've already been caught; already guilty of breaking the law. So following the speed limit now can't "un-guilt" me & make me right(eous) or just(ified) again in the law's eye. I can't follow the law, in my guilty state, to restore my own good standing (i.e. make me righteous or justified). The ticket can't be unmade by anything I do to obey the speeding law after breaking it. Obeying the law, **as a guilty person**, can't save me from the debt of the ticket I owe. It must be paid.
[^The proper context of Galatians 2:16: "a person is not justified by the works of the law"]
So I have to **remedy** my crime either by:
A) Paying the ticket myself, or
B) Receive mercy from the court: they forgive my crime and get someone else to pay my ticket
---
Is the above true or false? Are we in agreement with this portion or are there any errors?
---Scene 1---
I'm speeding down the highway and get stopped by a state trooper.
He tells me I've been caught traveling just 10mph over the speed limit and gives me a $300k ticket. What are my options at this point?
Can I tell the officer that I'll personally travel at the speed limit from now on to ***undo** the ticket?
No, of course not. I've already been caught; already guilty of breaking the law. So following the speed limit now can't "un-guilt" me & make me right(eous) or just(ified) again in the law's eye. I can't follow the law, in my guilty state, to restore my own good standing (i.e. make me righteous or justified). The ticket can't be unmade by anything I do to obey the speeding law after breaking it. Obeying the law, **as a guilty person**, can't save me from the debt of the ticket I owe. It must be paid.
[^The proper context of Galatians 2:16: "a person is not justified by the works of the law"]
So I have to **remedy** my crime either by:
A) Paying the ticket myself, or
B) Receive mercy from the court: they forgive my crime and get someone else to pay my ticket
---
Is the above true or false? Are we in agreement with this portion or are there any errors?
My answer to your scenario is what is the objective of the Lord in displaying failure in man to obey the law.
Man believes he is moral, likes to believe he can live without creating death through his behaviour. The law defines this sin, which needs resolving.
The traditional theological answer is pay the price for sin and forgive the action. But if nothing else changes there is no point to the process. But if the problem is related to trust of God, empowerment of love in the hearts of believers, then through faith and trust in Jesus walking in righteousness becomes possible. Theologians appear not to have investigated this avenue, and many christians find it awkward to discuss the emotional motivation behind having Jesus as your personal saviour.
Being righteous in this sense is the automatic outflow of the relationship with Jesus. Walking into this relationship is walking into the Kingdom. Does this idea make sense to you?
Man believes he is moral, likes to believe he can live without creating death through his behaviour. The law defines this sin, which needs resolving.
The traditional theological answer is pay the price for sin and forgive the action. But if nothing else changes there is no point to the process. But if the problem is related to trust of God, empowerment of love in the hearts of believers, then through faith and trust in Jesus walking in righteousness becomes possible. Theologians appear not to have investigated this avenue, and many christians find it awkward to discuss the emotional motivation behind having Jesus as your personal saviour.
Being righteous in this sense is the automatic outflow of the relationship with Jesus. Walking into this relationship is walking into the Kingdom. Does this idea make sense to you?
Cool.
---Scene 2---
I go to court and confess to the judge that I was speeding, but then say I can't pay the fine. At $300k, the price is too high; can't afford it. The consequence is I'll be put in prison if I don't pay so I beg for forgiveness.
My attorney (the judge's son), having compassion on me, pulls out his checkbook and writes a check for the amount I owe.
I say, "thank you for saving me from the judgement!!" There was nothing I could do to pay my ticket and avoid judgment. I was completely at the mercy of the judge and without the compassion of my attorney I would've faced that judgment. He alone paid the price for me and the judge declared me right(eous) again in the eyes of the speeding law. The law has been satisfied by my attorney so that my record is clean. I am justified; no longer guilty.
[^The proper context of Galatians 2:21 & Ephesians 2:8: "salvation from Christ alone who paid my price. I am justified, not of my effort or any work of the law I could do."]
What about this portion? Any stumbling here from your pov?
---Scene 2---
I go to court and confess to the judge that I was speeding, but then say I can't pay the fine. At $300k, the price is too high; can't afford it. The consequence is I'll be put in prison if I don't pay so I beg for forgiveness.
My attorney (the judge's son), having compassion on me, pulls out his checkbook and writes a check for the amount I owe.
I say, "thank you for saving me from the judgement!!" There was nothing I could do to pay my ticket and avoid judgment. I was completely at the mercy of the judge and without the compassion of my attorney I would've faced that judgment. He alone paid the price for me and the judge declared me right(eous) again in the eyes of the speeding law. The law has been satisfied by my attorney so that my record is clean. I am justified; no longer guilty.
[^The proper context of Galatians 2:21 & Ephesians 2:8: "salvation from Christ alone who paid my price. I am justified, not of my effort or any work of the law I could do."]
What about this portion? Any stumbling here from your pov?