that's why i was saying everyone who is born again must experience some kind of emotional experience, something to prove that they are born again, what does a new BORN baby do when it is born for the first time? it wheeps and cry, and that is a type of the spiritually also, you must experience some kind of emotional it's like you never existed before and you are born again, the baby must cry, i don't want to make myself seem like i'm in the spotlight or anything but i can just tell the truth, when i accepted christ, i started to wheep and cry uncontrollable not only i experience this experience but many more people over the world, i've read testimonies of when some people accept christ in a bar they fell to the ground and started wheeping and crying, something must occur to show that your faith has been accepted by God
Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?
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As the billions of stars are all unique and each snowflake is different so to is each persons emotional experience when coming to Christ.
Some who are more emotional weep, others who may be more intelectual feel almost nothing. Salvation is not dependent upon your emotional response but your faith and in Whom that faith has been placed for Salvation. Jesus and His blood.
Some who are more emotional weep, others who may be more intelectual feel almost nothing. Salvation is not dependent upon your emotional response but your faith and in Whom that faith has been placed for Salvation. Jesus and His blood.
Exactly! When a pregnant women is in the hospital room giving birth, and the baby comes forth, that room is filled with sound, and movement, and life. The baby is moving and crying, life was brought forth. That is the Physical Birth.
Likewise, since the day of Pentecost, when we are born of the spirit, we are filled and speak in tongues and prophesy, whereby we are crying "Abba Father". That is born again, born of the spirit. When we are born of the spirit the Bible way, there is movement and sound and life...
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
[13] Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
[14] But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[15] For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
When a baby is born according to the flesh, there is movement and sound and life.
Likewise, when a baby is born of the spirit, there is movement and sound and life!
that's impossible brother, one simply cannot have no emotion when accepting Christ, something emotional must happen, how would you know your faith was accepted? might i add my heart was extremely cold i had so much anger in my heart there was nothing emotional there at all, but when the holy spirit came into me i started wheeping uncontrollably, God does not change he does the same thing the same way, they are countless testimonies of people being born again experiencing the same thing, why wouldn't your soul wheep? you've passed from eternal death to eternal life.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
I started laughing uncontrollably. For a minute I thought I was going to be stuck that way. Stuck laughing forever. What a trade I had made!! My sorrow for His Joy!!
I'm mostly not an emotional person but when the Holy Spirit touches me I never know if I will be crying or laughing. Its about a horse apiece nowadays...
But then you have to ask yourself Josh... Does God draw us and cause us to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, or do we decide, do we choose our way of salvation???
I know you already know the answer to that one...
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
I started laughing uncontrollably. For a minute I thought I was going to be stuck that way. Stuck laughing forever. What a trade I had made!! My sorrow for His Joy!!
I'm mostly not an emotional person but when the Holy Spirit touches me I never know if I will be crying or laughing. Its about a horse apiece nowadays...
But then you have to ask yourself Josh... Does God draw us and cause us to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, or do we decide, do we choose our way of salvation???
I know you already know the answer to that one...
F
The belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is also known as "baptismal regeneration." It is our contention that baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation. We strongly believe that each and every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4 declares, “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.
Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.
Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.
If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)? Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?
Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.
Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.
If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)? Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?
My brother I was only sharing the two extremes of the spectrum in individual emotional responses.
The other reason being we must be careful not to place our faith in an emotional response however real.
I have read accounts of perplexed saints who wondered why they did not respond with the same emotion as others, yet after conversion went on to lead very fruitful Godly lives of faith.
A tree make shake and rattle but if there is no fruit there is no saving faith.
The true test of saving faith is fruit.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Mathew 7:20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
The other reason being we must be careful not to place our faith in an emotional response however real.
I have read accounts of perplexed saints who wondered why they did not respond with the same emotion as others, yet after conversion went on to lead very fruitful Godly lives of faith.
A tree make shake and rattle but if there is no fruit there is no saving faith.
The true test of saving faith is fruit.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Mathew 7:20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
What did I read incorrectly? You made very clear in your post that disobedience (which is an action on our part) can cost us our salvation, furthermore using water baptism as an example, if one fails to be water baptized. You highlighted the word 'that' in reference to disobedience.
A person who is spiritually born is no longer condemned, they have crossed over from death to life, they have eternal life, which is as the scriptures say - eternal. Eternal is eternal. It's through Christ's blood that we are saved and when God saved us He knew every single sin we would ever commit until the day we physically die.
In relation to my other post... several teachings have crept into the churches from that 'mother' system and many have embraced these teachings. The belief that one can lose salvation is just one of them, that no one is guaranteed eternal life, that it's dependent on our actions, as if we have control over losing this gift that was given and not earnt by us in the first place. How can this gift possibly be maintained by us in any way? Claiming a disobedient act can cost us salvation is basically saying we maintain it ourselves, as if Jesus' death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins from the past, present and future.
Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work"
Galatians 3:1-3: "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?"
Many quote John 3:5 and miss off verse 6, which concludes verse 5....
V 5: "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
V 6: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"
Clearly it is talking about the physical birth (flesh) as well as spiritual birth (spirit) as being completely separate. The physical birth comes first, but we are not automatically saved, we are spiritually disconnected from God because of sin. We must be born again (spiritual birth-2nd birth) otherwise we will not see Heaven.
Water baptism is an outward display of what's already happened inwardly. It comes after salvation, it does not save a person.
V 5: "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
V 6: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"
Clearly it is talking about the physical birth (flesh) as well as spiritual birth (spirit) as being completely separate. The physical birth comes first, but we are not automatically saved, we are spiritually disconnected from God because of sin. We must be born again (spiritual birth-2nd birth) otherwise we will not see Heaven.
Water baptism is an outward display of what's already happened inwardly. It comes after salvation, it does not save a person.
Some believe that John 3:5-6 is speaking of that, but the context, as I see it, is the flesh birth-v-spiritual birth, so the water in John 3:5 is referring to that of the physical birth. Nicodemus thought that being born again meant a physical birth, hence his questioning on how to reenter the womb when one is old. He's told that he's already had a flesh birth but is in need of the spiritual birth from above.
B
What you have said in this above post is good and agreed to by many here and concerning what the scriptures teach, but why have you added this comment and what do you mean by 'that can cost you your salvation'...
'But, once you are saved and fail to do so, you are now in disobedience to God, and that can cost you your salvation.'
'But, once you are saved and fail to do so, you are now in disobedience to God, and that can cost you your salvation.'
brother phil the only way to be separated from God is by Sin, and someone born of God cannot Sin, if they Sin it is not recorded, and it's unbelievable to live a perfect life because we have the flesh which has no good thing in it but Sin, so it still is under the influence of Sin, if you want to say that we can loose salvation every single person would be lost and there would be no salvation, because the flesh serves the law of Sin, even paul struggled and did things he DID NOT wanted too...
[h=3]Romans 7:24-25[/h]King James Version (KJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
God does not look at the works done in the flesh he looks at the inside, and if the spirit of Christ is within that's all he sees his beloved Son, if you want to say we can loose our salvation also your trying to make God a liar for he said he will never leave us or forsake us, do not try and turn that around and say we cn leave him impossible, this life is not ours when we surrender to God do you realize what your doing, giving your entire being as a living sacrifice to God, the life is his.
[h=3]Romans 7:24-25[/h]King James Version (KJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
God does not look at the works done in the flesh he looks at the inside, and if the spirit of Christ is within that's all he sees his beloved Son, if you want to say we can loose our salvation also your trying to make God a liar for he said he will never leave us or forsake us, do not try and turn that around and say we cn leave him impossible, this life is not ours when we surrender to God do you realize what your doing, giving your entire being as a living sacrifice to God, the life is his.