Is Trump the mouth in Daniel 7 & 8?

[Ezekiel8]

wow

you can't be serious

I certainly can be. Consider how the lines of that vote were the isles of the sea and Israel versus all the world.

We're in the development phase, the Kingdom of North and South are being clearly formed but while together they will become the kingdom of the fourth beast, they are like iron and clay, partly strong and partly weak, they will not mix, but will clash. And one day yes, like the prophet Daniel spoke, one of the kings of the North, the forerunners to the little horn, will turn his face to the isles of the sea to take many, but a prince on his own behalf shall stand up and cause his reproach to turn and without his own reproach he shall be turned back and will stumble and fall and not be found. Then in his place shall be one raiser of taxes, but after a few days he will be destroyed neither in anger nor in battle. Then after him comes the one that flatters, the little horn, and by flattery he shall prevail and overflow the mighty like the arms of a flood, and will make a false peace, and the kings of North and South shall be united to rule with him for a short space, and he shall set up the abomination which makes desolate, and then shall come the Rock of God smashing the ten toes of the kingdom. Blessed is the Most High God and those whom endure those days for the name of Jesus.

 

[posthuman]

I meant you can't be serious that Trump is either good, a servant or Christian, or that America is either nationally Christian or more Christian than any other nation? Those are all indefensible statements afaik

his announcement to move the embassy to Jerusalem is literally the first thing he's done that that i thought was laudable. But all it takes for any president to do that is refuse to renew the deferment of a plan to do so which had been in place since 1995, under Clinton. Every president for 22 years now has, every 6mo, had to make a decision to either move the embassy or put it off for another 6mo

Oh what did our president actually do tho?
That's right, he said some things, then put off actually moving anything for at least 6mo or more.

But i do agree with putting the embassy there, even knowing there is only one way that Israel will finally know peace, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the USA.

 

[Ezekiel8]

I meant you can't be serious that Trump is either good, a servant or Christian, or that America is either nationally Christian or more Christian than any other nation?

his announcement to move the embassy to Jerusalem is literally the first thing he's done that that i thought was laudable. But all it takes for any president to do that is refuse to renew the deferment of a plan to do so which had been in place since 1995, under Clinton. Every president for 22 years now has, every 6mo, had to make a decision to either move the embassy or put it off for another 6mo

Oh what did our president actually do tho?
That's right, he said some things, then put off actually moving anything for at least 6mo or more.

But i do agree with putting the embassy there, even knowing there is only one way that Israel will finally know peace, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the USA.

Oh I see what you mean now, my apologies. Yes I am serious about that also though. President Trump is a strong Christian and a true Christian, the first Christian President my generation has ever seen, and perhaps for yours as well. Some of the heathen say President Trump is "unpredictable" and "erratic", but if you know your Bible he is actually quite predictable, as he follows the Bible almost to a tee. His whole political playbook comes almost totally out of even the Book of Proverbs. I suppose it makes sense some are slow to come around, they have not seen a real strong Christian civic leader before and the past civic leaders have been dismal failures, so I suppose it can be forgiven that they are a bit tepid about him. The church leaders, the government leaders, the societal and cultural leaders, even those that claim to be Christian have not done well, they have not done as God commands those with authority to do. So it seems God has appointed President Trump, a base man but an honest man, to set an example.

Well you must not be watching very closely, though I do agree standing with Israel in the face of the whole fallen world is quite laudable. To name some of President Trump's other many and great accomplishments which he has accomplished quickly in the space of one year; repealing the Obamacare mandate, greatly restricting immigration, banning the muslims, deporting many invaders, encouraging Christianity and a non-secularized Christmas, ending the extortion of the North Koreans, not re-certifying the treasonous Iran Deal, ending the billion dollar aids to the betrayers in Pakistan, giving a large tax break to the lower and middle classes, beginning the development phase of the Wall, rebuking the UN and slashing their budget, stimulating a roaring economy, cancelling the TPP, reworking NAFTA (which I expect to be further re-worked into next year), politically leading the GOP to some small gains in the House despite their rebelliousness against him to their own hurt, and I also what I like most President Trump is constantly publicly praising the Lord.

 

[posthuman]

Dude have you even read Proverbs?

Or is the problem that you only get your news from propaganda outlet?

 

[posthuman]

i still think maybe you are satire.

 

[posthuman]

i do believe he's appointed by God to be potus and as an example, a sign to be understood.

... not the example you seem to believe he is tho. wow

 

[Ezekiel8]

Dude have you even read Proverbs?

Or is the problem that you only get your news from propaganda outlet?

I have indeed read book of Proverbs, and am in fact in the middle of reading it right now.

Interestingly I left off last night before bed at this Proverb which I do think very well describes our good servant President Trump, his reign, and the wicked fools that hate him. Interestingly I did feel reproached for being a sluggard and falling asleep after only reading a page, but perhaps in light of its usefulness here the Lord simply meant it to be to be fresh in mind to share with you.

Proverbs 14

1 Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the Lord: but he that is perverse in his ways despiseth him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The heart knoweth his own bitterness; and a stranger doth not intermeddle with his joy.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The house of the wicked shall be overthrown: but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of that mirth is heaviness.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly: and a man of wicked devices is hated.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The simple inherit folly: but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]The evil bow before the good; and the wicked at the gates of the righteous.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The poor is hated even of his own neighbour: but the rich hath many friends.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Do they not err that devise evil? but mercy and truth shall be to them that devise good.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips tendeth only to penury.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]The crown of the wise is their riches: but the foolishness of fools is folly.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]In the fear of the Lord is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]In the multitude of people is the king's honour: but in the want of people is the destruction of the prince.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]The wicked is driven away in his wickedness: but the righteous hath hope in his death.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Wisdom resteth in the heart of him that hath understanding: but that which is in the midst of fools is made known.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]The king's favour is toward a wise servant: but his wrath is against him that causeth shame.


Lol this reminds me of a another great accomplishment of President Trump, chastising the lying fake news media and constantly defying their wicked lies.

Also I forgot to add to his list a very important one which ought not be neglected, forgive me. President Trump has also largely smote the Islamic State causing them to even lose their capital.

 

[Ezekiel8]

i do believe he's appointed by God to be potus and as an example, a sign to be understood.

... not the example you seem to believe he is tho. wow

Well let me ask you then a question since we do both agree that President Trump is appointed by God and is set forth as an example. What is it that you think is to be understood from the example of President Trump?

 

[Zen]

He is a pathological liar.

Are you getting him mixed up with Hillary Clinton or another leftist?

 

[Ahwatukee]

In Daniel 7 & 8 the beast with ten horns is provided a mouth that speaks great things.
This mouth that speaks great things casts some of the stars of heaven to the ground and stamps all over them (Daniel 9:10).

The dragon with the seven heads ten horns and seven crowns, is identified as Satan as a whole. He is the one who casts a third of the stars out of heaven, which is in reference to those angels who rebelled with him and who caused them to fall. In support of this, the "stars" are revealed to be Satan's angels in Rev.12:9. Their being cast out is also in reference to the war in heaven when Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth during that last 3 1/2 years.

The beast that speaks blasphemous words against God is that angel that comes up out of the Abyss who will be power behind the antichrist and who is also the one who will kill the two witnesses when he comes up out of the Abyss.

According to scripture, we are told that the ten horns represent ten kings who will rule concurrently with the beast.

The seven heads of the beast represent a succession of kings, five of which had already ruled and gone when John was receiving this information from the angel. "One is" i.e. king number six was ruling at the time that John was receiving this information. "The other has not yet come." This is king number seven which was future to John but in the past to us. "The beast who once was and now is not" is an eighth king who belongs to the seven. This king is the future antichrist, that head/king that receives the fatal wound but survives.

People have been identifying this antichrist throughout history. But the fact remains that until someone establishes that seven year covenant with Israel allowing them to build their temple, it isn't him.

 

[Ahwatukee]

According to the Lords Word in Revelation 9:20, the environmental plagues seen in Revelation chapters 8 & 9 are caused by the love mankind has for the works from his hands. This represents industrial pollution, and Donald Trump's policies are pulling all the plugs on environmental conservatism.

Hello Louis,

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are how God will be pouring out his wrath and they are not metaphors or symbolism. When the first trumpet is sounded a third of the earth and trees will literally be burned up. What is not mentioned is the fatalities as a result.

At the sounding of the 2nd trumpet, a literal object, most likely an asteroid or meteor, etc, will hit in one of the oceans killing all of the creatures in that body of water equaling a third over all the earth. Again, what is not mentioned is the resulting fatalities and that because it will be the giant tsunami's created from the impact.

At the sounding of the 5th trumpet, a star/angel will fall to the earth and open the literal Abyss releasing those demonic beings resembling locusts and horses prepared for battle. There are no fatalities as a result of this plague of wrath, for they are commanded only to torment the inhabitants of the earth.

When this antichrist is revealed, he will be the most charismatic person the world has seen and everyone will follow after him. Neither Trump nor anyone else has yet fit this characteristic.

 

[louis]

Yes. I do. He is the only one brave enough to speak up on some issues.

A little elaboration would be helfful.

 

[louis]

President Trump is the US president who recognized Jerusalem as Israel's captital and wants to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. One of the jobs of the embassy is to protect the people who live there. Jerusalem may very well be where protection is most needed. We are encouraged in Scripture to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

That's very interesting. Some might see this move of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem as the one standing where he ought not to stand.

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

 

[louis]

The dragon with the seven heads ten horns and seven crowns, is identified as Satan as a whole.

You are substituting the fourth beast with ten horns in Daniel 7 for the dragon who vests the beast with his power in Revelation 13:4.

Revelation 13:4 [FONT=&quot]And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?[/FONT]

People have been identifying this antichrist throughout history. But the fact remains that until someone establishes that seven year covenant with Israel allowing them to build their temple, it isn't him.

Something built in Jerusalem? OK,.... interesting!

 

[louis]

[/COLOR]

Hello Louis,

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are how God will be pouring out his wrath and they are not metaphors or symbolism. When the first trumpet is sounded a third of the earth and trees will literally be burned up. What is not mentioned is the fatalities as a result.

So accordijng to your perspective; at some moment in time the whole world is going to hear a large trumpet sound and one third of the earth will immediately catch on fire?
One problem with your perspective is that all green grass will burn according to the scripture (Revelation 8:7), which would mean the whole world would have to catch fire. Forest fires are currently annually claiming ever greater swaths of territory throughout the world due to global warming. Put one and one together.

Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

When this antichrist is revealed, he will be the most charismatic person the world has seen and everyone will follow after him. Neither Trump nor anyone else has yet fit this characteristic.

Some scripture to support your claim that the antichrist will be the most charismatic person the world has seen would be helpful. Otherwise you are simply stating unfounded dogma.

According to scripture (Daniel 8:24-25) the reason the world will love and follow the little horn, (aka the mouth speaking great things, aka the Antichrist), is that he will cause craft to prosper.

Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So accordijng to your perspective; at some moment in time the whole world is going to hear a large trumpet sound and one third of the earth will immediately catch on fire?

Of course not! The seals, trumpets and bowls are represent the events associated with them. The results themselves will take place literally.

One problem with your perspective is that all green grass will burn according to the scripture (Revelation 8:7), which would mean the whole world would have to catch fire. Forest fires are currently annually claiming ever greater swaths of territory throughout the world due to global warming. Put one and one together.

Now you are getting the picture. The seals, trumpets and bowls are is going to decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human government. This is support by when Jesus said, "unless those day were shortened, no one would be left alive." The main problem regarding God's wrath that is coming, is that people don't understand the severity and magnitude of said wrath. This world will be in complete chaos, with the cities of the nations having collapsed, with a great decrease in the population of the world.

Some scripture to support your claim that the antichrist will be the most charismatic person the world has seen would be helpful. Otherwise you are simply stating unfounded dogma.

I teach scripture. And regarding the antichrist the following is said:

"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."

The beast will receive a fatal wound, which means that it is not survivable, which he does. This is just part of the miracles, signs and wonders as a means of deceiving the inhabitants. Scripture states that they will be in awe of him and will worship him.

The results of the seals, trumpets and bowls should be interpreted literally.

 

[louis]

I teach scripture. And regarding the antichrist the following is said:

"[/COLOR]And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."

The beast will receive a fatal wound, which means that it is not survivable, which he does. This is just part of the miracles, signs and wonders as a means of deceiving the inhabitants. Scripture states that they will be in awe of him and will worship him.

The results of the seals, trumpets and bowls should be interpreted literally.

Correct, the faithless world will worship/fervently love the dragon, the beast, and the Antichrist.
The reason why the world will fervently love these entities, will be due to the power from the sea the devil provides the beast that will bring about a utopia for a period of 42 months.
As this period correlates and commences with the opening of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:2, after the fifth angels sounding warning in Revelation 9:1; the environmental calamities seen in Revelation 8 then precede the 42 month utopia in which the beast rides high. These events in Revelation 8 are then not the Lords wrath that will come upon the worshippers of the beast following the 42 month period in which the dragon, the beast, and the Antichrist are in full power.

Revelation 13:4 [FONT=&quot]And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and they worshipped the beast[/FONT][FONT=&quot], saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/FONT]

 

[plainguy]

You only need to read this thread to see that he has a big fan club. If you dig out those threads that were current up to the Presidential election and after they read as if he were the Messiah. Other Republican candidates hardly get a look in.

Occasionally you surprise me. I have respect for most of what you say and agree with most. But not on this matter. Like you, I am not a fan of the far-right evangelical movement in the U.S. ... not even close. I also recognize that far too often Donald Trump makes himself look like a buffoon with his knee-jerk reactions. That said, and far deeper than the surface of both he and Hillary Clinton, there remains the question of who between them is most honest in what they say (and mean), chaff and grain mixed together. In my mind, it's not even close. Donald Trump by a longshot, whether one agrees with his views or not. One is a business tycoon that trips over himself much too often ... the other a (lying) career politician and common criminal whose words mean absolutely nothing. Have to say that it surprises me that you don't comment on this aspect of it much ... or maybe I just haven't seen those comments. In any event tanakh ... our differences are what they are

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You only need to read this thread to see that he has a big fan club. If you dig out those threads that were current up to the Presidential election and after they read as if he were the Messiah. Other Republican candidates hardly get a look in.

or the flip side...plenty of people who do not like him

funny how that works, eh? in fact, IMO, the Trump dissenters like to get a dig in every available chance and blame him for the moon being dark on the side that does not face the sun

nothing personal towards you...we just have opposite views on Trump

is there something wrong with not disliking him? if some folks think they are right in not liking him, why is it so wrong the other way?

 

[louis]

I've noticed so many here supposed Christians who believe in truth, who in fact ignore the fact that the new commander in chief is a pathological liar, support the pathological liar.

John 8:44 [FONT=&quot]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it[/FONT]