Is your church condemned?

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May 20, 2016
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I gave an honest answer and still you seek to find fault with it, and me, apparently. Maybe you should attend a Bible believing, Bible teaching church. That's what mine is, and it is wonderful :)
Does your church teach and live the following scripture?
(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”
Pharisee
(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.”

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
(Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”
(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”
(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

(1 John 2:6) “Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
NO! Not keeping God’s Word is a sin, and a sinner is of the devil. I do not love or forgive the devil. Also Jesus said forgive a brother who asks for forgiveness. The Churches are not asking for forgiveness, and don’t even admit they are disobeying God.

Also a sinner is disobeying God, and it is up to God if they are to be forgiven or loved.

By the way Jesus told us who it is he loves, and what one has to do to be loved by him. Sinning is not keeping God’s Commandments by the way.

(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”
Is your view that every person who sins is of the devil?
 
May 20, 2016
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Is your view that every person who sins is of the devil?
I believe what Apostle John said.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

John said sin is what distinguishes a Child of God from the child of the devil. A Child of God cannot sin. So yes I believe anyone who sins is of the devil.

John said anyone who sins never has known God.

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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I believe what John said, as well.....
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.
...........and a liar is a sinner, correct?
 
May 20, 2016
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I believe what John said, as well.....


...........and a liar is a sinner, correct?
So you believe your understanding of the following scripture negates that John says a Child of God cannot sin?
(1 John 1: 8-10) If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

First John says one has been purified of all unrighteousness, is not sin unrighteousness? If one is cleaned of sin, could they be liars if they say they sin no more?

When people use this scripture of John’s as you did, it is, I believe because they are desperate to believe everyone sins as they do, and they want to feel righteous, even though they can’t stop from committing sin.

John is saying one is a liar if he or she says they have never sinned, and that would include Mary Jesus’ mother.
Do you truly believe John is saying that a child of God, who he says can’t sin, is a liar if he or she tells people they no longer sin?

John said: “If we claim we have not sinned.” That is lying. Saying that we no longer sin is what a Child of God says, and John tells us a Child or God can’t sin.

Your understanding of that part of John’s letter mean you believe John contradicted himself in that rest of the letter.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

If John said saying one was sin free was lying then it does not make any sense for him to say the following.

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,650
1,398
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John was talking about willingly sinning... in other words, NOT walking in the light.

Even if we are walking in the light, we, as humans, will still sin. The difference is, that our sins are covered by God's grace, and we are to repent and continue our walk in the light.

If you say that you never sin, because you have been saved, then you are a liar, as John says.

When people use this scripture of John’s as you did, it is, I believe because they are desperate to believe everyone sins as they do
I don't have to be desperate to believe that, because I KNOW it's true. EVERYONE sins.... in order to never commit a sin, one would have to be perfect.... and we are not.

Through God's grace, we are seen as perfect in God's sight, but we still sin. It's impossible NOT to.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,650
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John is saying one is a liar if he or she says they have never sinned, and that would include Mary Jesus’ mother.
That is correct. Mary, the mother of Jesus, DID sin.... as everyone has, and does.

No where in scripture does it say that Mary never sinned.

To the best of my knowledge, the only people that claim that are Roman Catholics....
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”
you're purposefully choosing to use a translation into English that does not properly convey the meaning that is plain in the original language, and which the great majority of English translations have taken steps to correct.

John is not teaching that "anyone who sins" or "anyone who commits a single sin" is a son of the Devil. he is telling us that anyone who makes a practice of sinning and continues in sin without repentance is not born of God.

would you call intentionally misrepresenting the word of God a "sin" ?


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[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Pas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Anyone[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"][/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1080 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gegennēmenos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γεγεννημένος[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]having been born[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-RPM/P-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ek[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]266 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hamartian[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἁμαρτίαν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]sin[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4160 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]poiei[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ποιεῖ,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]practices,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3754 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hoti[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὅτι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]because[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4690 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]sperma[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]σπέρμα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]seed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]autou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of him[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-GM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]autō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτῷ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-DM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3306 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]menei[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μένει·[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]abides,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2532 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1410 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dynatai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δύναται[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]he is able[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIM/P-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]264 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hamartanein[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἁμαρτάνειν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]to continue sinning,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PNA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3754 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hoti[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὅτι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]because[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1537 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ek[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐκ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1080 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gegennētai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γεγέννηται.[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]he has been born.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-RIM/P-3S
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,687
13,135
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After we get saved,we should renew our minds.

well, i would say -- we should get our minds renewed.

there are many things about our salvation that we are simply not qualified to do, but that God in His mercy towards us is doing for us. :)

the renewal of our minds is one of them -- submitting to Him, not establishing ourselves.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,337
16,315
113
69
Tennessee
What church do you attend on a regular basis and is it condemned too?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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A sinner does not know God. Yet people believe the false teacher of God, which say all one needs to do is say they believe in Jesus to go to heaven. These same people sin, and scripture says a sinner does not even know God. They believe in someone they don’t even know?
(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”
John speaking
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
May 20, 2016
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John was talking about willingly sinning... in other words, NOT walking in the light.

Even if we are walking in the light, we, as humans, will still sin. The difference is, that our sins are covered by God's grace, and we are to repent and continue our walk in the light.

If you say that you never sin, because you have been saved, then you are a liar, as John says.



I don't have to be desperate to believe that, because I KNOW it's true. EVERYONE sins.... in order to never commit a sin, one would have to be perfect.... and we are not.

Through God's grace, we are seen as perfect in God's sight, but we still sin. It's impossible NOT to.
Yes it is a deliberate sin that leads to death. Any time one knows what a commandment of God is, and does not obey the commandment that is a deliberate sin.

A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, and Jesus always obeyed his Father in Heaven. To be a Christian one has to live as Jesus lived.

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did” Jesus did not sin.

One will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he or she keep God’s Word. Jesus said we would be judged by the Words he spoke.

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”

Jesus came to make it possible for us to become children of God. And it is through the Holy Spirit, and the grace/power given to us by the Holy Spirit that makes that possible.

(Romans 8:1-4) “The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

Do yourself some good, and accept what the written of God tells us, and stop thinking the teachings of God you received are right. Pray to hear and receive the grace to obey the Holy Spirit.
 
May 20, 2016
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John speaking
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Believing of Jesus, and believing in Jesus are two different things.

When John says one is believing in Jesus, he is saying that one needs to be in Jesus to believe.

You need to read what John says about being in Jesus, or Jesus being in him or her.

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

John says this is how we know we are in him. One who sin can’t believe in Jesus, because they are not living as Jesus lived.

(1 John 3:9) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

Here John says God is in one who does not sin. So Children of God are in God, and God is in them.

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Here John says if one sins they don’t even know God. One can’t believe in someone they do not even know.

(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

Jesus told us what one needs to do to have God be in them. Keeping God’s Word includes not sinning.

The reason my argument does not make sense to most people, is because to understand God’s Word and come to know God his or her teacher needs to be God.

(1 Corinthians 2:10-13) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God”
 
May 20, 2016
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What church do you attend on a regular basis and is it condemned too?
I am in church all the time. Jesus Christ has made a home in me, and he is with me all the time. Everything I do is as Jesus would have me do. That is the worship Jesus seeks from people.

I know of no organized church that teaches what the apostles, so do not attend any church, other than my in home church.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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John 6:63
King James Version(KJV)

63.)It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
+++
Hebrews 12:23
King James Version(KJV)

23.)To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
+++
The reborn spirit Is saved and sealed and Is the part that cannot sin but the body has not yet been glorified.
+++
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
+++
I guess the question would be "are you saved If you don't renew your mind?"
Paul said"I beseech you"
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Believing of Jesus, and believing in Jesus are two different things.

When John says one is believing in Jesus, he is saying that one needs to be in Jesus to believe.

You need to read what John says about being in Jesus, or Jesus being in him or her.

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

John says this is how we know we are in him. One who sin can’t believe in Jesus, because they are not living as Jesus lived.

(1 John 3:9) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

Here John says God is in one who does not sin. So Children of God are in God, and God is in them.

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Here John says if one sins they don’t even know God. One can’t believe in someone they do not even know.

(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

Jesus told us what one needs to do to have God be in them. Keeping God’s Word includes not sinning.

The reason my argument does not make sense to most people, is because to understand God’s Word and come to know God his or her teacher needs to be God.

(1 Corinthians 2:10-13) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God”
be obedient to the WORD of GOD first.I mean get saved.

Then the flesh should be obedient to the spirit "renew your mind"
 
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May 20, 2016
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John 6:63
King James Version(KJV)

63.)It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
+++
Hebrews 12:23
King James Version(KJV)

23.)To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
+++
The reborn spirit Is saved and sealed and Is the part that cannot sin but the body has not yet been glorified.
+++
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
+++
I guess the question would be "are you saved If you don't renew your mind?"
Paul said"I beseech you"
A Spiritual Christian has the mind of Jesus Christ. I would say that is a renewed mind. And we don’t do the renewing.
(1 Corinthians 2:16) “For: who has ever known the mind of the Lord? Who has ever been his adviser? But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,687
13,135
113

I know of no organized church that teaches what the apostles, so do not attend any church

is this because you have been to every single church in the whole country?

and have never heard of a Wesleyen / Holiness church?

"sinless perfection" is neither a new nor unique doctrine.



*shrug*
i guess it suits a mans vanity better to sit at home and pat himself on the back every Lord's day for being the only good man in the whole world, than it does to get his hands 'dirty' with the fellowship that the scriptures teach we should not forsake.
your couch & your dog are blessed to hear you preach every week, and to be asked nary a tithe nor expected to woof or creak out any hymn.

thank God you are not like other men, yes?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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A Spiritual Christian has the mind of Jesus Christ. I would say that is a renewed mind. And we don’t do the renewing.
(1 Corinthians 2:16) “For: who has ever known the mind of the Lord? Who has ever been his adviser? But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”
I'm talking about and also Paul Is talking about progressive sanctification and I think you are talking about positional sanctification.