Israel’s Final Restoration

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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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76
#61
There will not be many believing Jews in Christ before His coming. Will a vast majority of God's people, the Jews, perish?--esp. in light of "so all Israel shall be saved," which are from Jacob (Rom 11:26).

Blessings to your Family!
Question is who does the Bible teach constitutes Israel? Those physically born Jews or those who obey God and accept Jesus as the only way to God. I would wish everyone to be saved including the whole of Israel but the fallacy that being Jewish gets you a free passport to heaven seems to be a popular lie swallowed by many. If that were true every male could go to their local Synagoge and get circumcised by a Rabbi to become part of Israel.
 
N

NetChaplain

Guest
#62
"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah"--No Gentiles here.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#63
"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah"--No Gentiles here.
"And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them"--No Gentile reference here.
All such Old Testament prophecies about "new covenant" are fullfiled in Christ, church, Christianity, the New Covenant (or New testament).

There is no "third covenant to come".

"For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
'This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.'"


Hebrews 10:14-16

The sacrifice of Christ is the prophecised new covenant, as Hebrews said.
 
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DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#64
Question is who does the Bible teach constitutes Israel? Those physically born Jews or those who obey God and accept Jesus as the only way to God.
Both... actually, because of Romans 11 and 1 Kings 11:36...

1 Kings 11:36
36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David My servant may have a light alway before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen Me to put My name there.
KJV

When God split old Israel, and gave ten tribes to Jeroboam of Ephraim to be ruler over Israel, He promised to leave one tribe always before Him in Jerusalem. The majority of those today just happen to be orthodox unbelieving Jews. But alas, Paul covered in Rom.11 about the conversion of the majority of them when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which is not yet today. Paul told us to not be conceited, don't cast them away yet, because God hasn't forgotten what He promised them. Paul showed us in that Romans 11 chapter that God Himself blinded those away from The Gospel so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles also.

So as of Christ's death and resurrection, there are 2 Israels:

1. Those under the New Covenant Jesus Christ. That of course means the remnant of Israel which believed, which are actually many, many more Israelite peoples than suspected when considering the scattered ten tribes of the "house of Israel" which never were known as Jews. Along with them are believing Gentiles. This configuration is witnessed in the OT prophets regarding both the saved seed of Israel and believing Gentiles as joined together in God's future Kingdom (see Isaiah especially).

2. The portion of the seed of Israel which God Himself blinded away from The Gospel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. These are mostly unbelieving Jews, not just in the state of Israel, but scattered Jews throughout the nations also. They made up the Biblical "house of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and some small remnants of the ten tribes).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#66
but Israel is shown to have been made up of believing jews and Gentiles (rom 11.12-24)

It is quite clear paul had seperated Israel and Gentile in chapter 11. And unlike in chapter 9, where he said they were one in Christ, He spoke of them being seperate here as far as who they are..


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if their (ISRAEL) fall is riches for the world, and their (ISRAEL) failure riches for the (GENTILE) how much more their (ISRAEL) fullness! [SUP]13 [/SUP]For I speak to you (GENTILE); inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, [SUP]14 [/SUP]if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh (ISRAEL) and save some of them. (ISRAEL) [SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their (ISRAEL) being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their (ISRAEL) acceptance be but life from the dead?

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the firstfruit (CHRIST) is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root (CHRIST) is holy, so are the branches. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches (ISRAEL) were broken off, and you, (GENTILE) being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them (ISRAEL) , and with them (ISRAEL) became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree (CHRIST) , [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not boast against the branches (ISRAEL). But if you do boast, remember that you (GENTILE) do not support the root (CHRIST), but the root (CHRIST) supports you (GENTILE) .

[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say then, “Branches (ISRAEL) were broken off that I (GENTILE) might be grafted in.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Well said. Because of unbelief they (ISRAEL) were broken off, and you (GENTILE) stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God did not spare the natural branches (ISRAEL), He may not spare you (GENTILE) either. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, (ISRAEL) severity; but toward you, (GENTILE) goodness,[SUP][f][/SUP] if you (GENTILE) continue in His (Christ) goodness. Otherwise you (GENTILE)) also will be cut off. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And they (ISRAEL) also, if they (ISRAEL) do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them (ISRAEL) in again. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For if you (GENTILE) were cut out of the olive treewhich is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, (CHRIST) how much more will these (ISRAEL), who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree(CHRIST)?

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you (GENTILE) should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you (GENTILE) should be wise in your (GENTILE)own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to (ISRAEL) until the fullness of the (GENTILE) has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all (ISRAEL) will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob (ISRAEL)

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them, (ISRAEL)
When I take away their (ISRAEL) sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they (ISRAEL)are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they (ISRAEL) are beloved for the sake of the fathers. (ISRAEL) [SUP]29 [/SUP]For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
You are trying to convince us that the text says:

"Gentiles will come in... AND AFTER THAT all Israel will be saved."

But that simply is not true.

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery...Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved."

Paul says that the process of church (partly Jewish, partly made of Gentiles) is THE WAY in which whole TRUE Israel (= church) will be saved.

So, again, there is nothing in that text, that supports any of your views.
Nope that is not what it says,

It says because Israel fell, Gentile was grafted in, But he warned us not to make the same mistake israel did, and think ourselves highly then them, For if their fall can grant us an in, how much more will our fall give them greater glory when they get grafted back in.

For blindness has only happenned in part to Isreal until the time of the gentile is complete. THEN all israel will be saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
I don't understand this obsession with the Jews, I mean they have always been stiffnecked and rebeillious except for the ones that God chose out of Israel. They killed the prophets, they killed Jesus, they're enemies of the gospel, they decieve Christians trying to put them back under the law... why do you Israel supporters think God's gonna just forget about all that and save all the Jews just because they're Jews?

There is no obsession with the jew, them being saved has nothing to do with me..

It is obsession with prophesy. and rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#69
Nope that is not what it says,

It says because Israel fell, Gentile was grafted in, But he warned us not to make the same mistake israel did, and think ourselves highly then them, For if their fall can grant us an in, how much more will our fall give them greater glory when they get grafted back in.

For blindness has only happenned in part to Isreal until the time of the gentile is complete. THEN all israel will be saved.
You are changing the Bible:

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery...Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved."

There is no "THEN".

If we need to change Bible text to support our view, our view is wrong.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#70
You are changing the Bible:
I am, Thanks,, I will remember that :rolleyes:

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery...Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved."

There is no "THEN".
what version do you use? I like to stick to the tried and ture.

NKJV
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

NASB

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;[SUP]26 [/SUP]and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jaco



It is quite clear what is being said here.

1. A partial hardening has happened to Isreal
2. The PARTIAL hardening will continue until the fullness of the gentiles has come ( a period of time)
3. At that time, The hardening will be removed, and ALL israel will be saved.
4. How? The deliverer will come out of zion, and he will remove the ungoldiness from Jacob (Israel) (the will repent, after their blindness is removed)

This passage is speaking of a future event future from the time it is written.


The right theology is taken from the text. The wrong theology is changing the Bible text to conform our view we have gotten elsewhere (for example in some church).
Then why are you changing the text of the bible. It does not say Isreal consists of all jew and gentiles who are saved, It says nothing to that effect, You have to force it to say that.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#71
I am, Thanks,, I will remember that :rolleyes:



what version do you use? I like to stick to the tried and ture.

NKJV
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

NASB

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;[SUP]26 [/SUP]and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jaco



It is quite clear what is being said here.

1. A partial hardening has happened to Isreal
2. The PARTIAL hardening will continue until the fullness of the gentiles has come ( a period of time)
3. At that time, The hardening will be removed, and ALL israel will be saved.
4. How? The deliverer will come out of zion, and he will remove the ungoldiness from Jacob (Israel) (the will repent, after their blindness is removed)

This passage is speaking of a future event future from the time it is written.




Then why are you changing the text of the bible. It does not say Isreal consists of all jew and gentiles who are saved, It says nothing to that effect, You have to force it to say that.
Look at biblehub.com

NIV: "and in this way all Israel will be saved."
English Standard Version: "And in this way all Israel will be saved"
Holman Christian Standard Bible: "And in this way all Israel will be saved"
International Standard Version: "In this way, all Israel will be saved, as it is written"
GOD'S WORD® Translation: "In this way Israel as a whole will be saved"

"and so all Israel will be saved" means the same thing. Paul is talking HOW all Israel will be saved - believing remnant from Israel + Gentiles coming in (verse 11:25).

There is no "THEN all national Jews will be saved" in the text.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#72

It is quite clear paul had seperated Israel and Gentile in chapter 11. And unlike in chapter 9, where he said they were one in Christ, He spoke of them being seperate here as far as who they are..


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if their (ISRAEL) fall is riches for the world, and their (ISRAEL) failure riches for the (GENTILE) how much more their (ISRAEL) fullness! [SUP]13 [/SUP]For I speak to you (GENTILE); inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, [SUP]14 [/SUP]if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh (ISRAEL) and save some of them. (ISRAEL) [SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their (ISRAEL) being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their (ISRAEL) acceptance be but life from the dead?

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the firstfruit (CHRIST) is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root (CHRIST) is holy, so are the branches. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches (ISRAEL) were broken off, and you, (GENTILE) being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them (ISRAEL) , and with them (ISRAEL) became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree (CHRIST) , [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not boast against the branches (ISRAEL). But if you do boast, remember that you (GENTILE) do not support the root (CHRIST), but the root (CHRIST) supports you (GENTILE) .

[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say then, “Branches (ISRAEL) were broken off that I (GENTILE) might be grafted in.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Well said. Because of unbelief they (ISRAEL) were broken off, and you (GENTILE) stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God did not spare the natural branches (ISRAEL), He may not spare you (GENTILE) either. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, (ISRAEL) severity; but toward you, (GENTILE) goodness,[SUP][f][/SUP] if you (GENTILE) continue in His (Christ) goodness. Otherwise you (GENTILE)) also will be cut off. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And they (ISRAEL) also, if they (ISRAEL) do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them (ISRAEL) in again. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For if you (GENTILE) were cut out of the olive treewhich is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, (CHRIST) how much more will these (ISRAEL), who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree(CHRIST)?

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you (GENTILE) should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you (GENTILE) should be wise in your (GENTILE)own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to (ISRAEL) until the fullness of the (GENTILE) has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all (ISRAEL) will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob (ISRAEL)

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them, (ISRAEL)
When I take away their (ISRAEL) sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they (ISRAEL)are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they (ISRAEL) are beloved for the sake of the fathers. (ISRAEL) [SUP]29 [/SUP]For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


Lol thats the way to do it! Very clear.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
Look at biblehub.com

NIV: "and in this way all Israel will be saved."
English Standard Version: "And in this way all Israel will be saved"
Holman Christian Standard Bible: "And in this way all Israel will be saved"
International Standard Version: "In this way, all Israel will be saved, as it is written"
GOD'S WORD® Translation: "In this way Israel as a whole will be saved"

"and so all Israel will be saved" means the same thing. Paul is talking HOW all Israel will be saved - believing remnant from Israel + Gentiles coming in (verse 11:25).

There is no "THEN all national Jews will be saved" in the text.
Thnks, but I have Logos Bible software, About every version of the bible every written in english is included, As well as many greek and english lexicons, interlinears and bibles. But non of that even matter, what matters is what the text says literally.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion,


1. Paul tells us (gentiles) that we should not be ignorant of the mystery, so we are nit wise in our own opinion.. Ie Paul does not want us to make the same mistake jews made, Who still in pauls day were extreme anti gentile haters, and did not think most gentiles could be saved (sounds alot like much of the church today are against Israel)

what is the mystery?

that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

2. That Israel is blind in part. Some of them have been were being and still today are being saved, They have had their eyes opened to the true gospel. But most of Isreal even today have been cut off because they did nt believe in the messiah (jesus)

But what happens when this fullness of the gentiles is completed? Paul tells us.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][a][/SUP] as it is written:


3. At this time, and in this manner, All Israel will be saved, At that time, the blindness will be removed from Jacob (Israel) and she will repent and be saved.

How will this occure?


“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;


This is not talking about the cross. Paul is speaking of a fute even, not a past even here,, So it must be some other even Christ will do.



Scripture says at the end of tribulation, Also knows as the time of Jacob's trouble, the king, the messiah, the lord will appear in the sky, Every tribe and nation will see him, He will come, set boots on the ground on mt Zion, spliting the mountain of olives in two. All Israel will see him, All Isreal will repent, and all Israel will be saved.

Many Many gentiles will have been saved by then too, Maybe even more gentiles then jews They will be spared the wrath of God. Survive the final battle between the lord and the beast, and enter the kingdom age with Jesus ruling in Jerusalem


one thing about prophesy (and this is Paul prophesying about a future event) is that you have to take all prophesy, Old and NT together, and make it one.. You can not mix and match prophesies, or make them seperate especially concerning end times events.

either way, I posted earlier maybe in another thread all the times Isreal was mentioned, Gentile was mentiond, And Christ (the root or the tree) was mentioned. And how Paul were speperating Israel (natural branches) and Gentile (unnatural branches) into the tree (Christ) and how we can not put them back together again, Paul is speaking of two groups of people here. Israel vs Gentile.. Please. do not be wise in your own mind as Paul warned.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#75
Thnks, but I have Logos Bible software, About every version of the bible every written in english is included, As well as many greek and english lexicons, interlinears and bibles. But non of that even matter, what matters is what the text says literally.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion,


1. Paul tells us (gentiles) that we should not be ignorant of the mystery, so we are nit wise in our own opinion.. Ie Paul does not want us to make the same mistake jews made, Who still in pauls day were extreme anti gentile haters, and did not think most gentiles could be saved (sounds alot like much of the church today are against Israel)

what is the mystery?

that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

2. That Israel is blind in part. Some of them have been were being and still today are being saved, They have had their eyes opened to the true gospel. But most of Isreal even today have been cut off because they did nt believe in the messiah (jesus)

But what happens when this fullness of the gentiles is completed? Paul tells us.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][a][/SUP] as it is written:


3. At this time, and in this manner, All Israel will be saved, At that time, the blindness will be removed from Jacob (Israel) and she will repent and be saved.

How will this occure?


“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;


This is not talking about the cross. Paul is speaking of a fute even, not a past even here,, So it must be some other even Christ will do.



Scripture says at the end of tribulation, Also knows as the time of Jacob's trouble, the king, the messiah, the lord will appear in the sky, Every tribe and nation will see him, He will come, set boots on the ground on mt Zion, spliting the mountain of olives in two. All Israel will see him, All Isreal will repent, and all Israel will be saved.

Many Many gentiles will have been saved by then too, Maybe even more gentiles then jews They will be spared the wrath of God. Survive the final battle between the lord and the beast, and enter the kingdom age with Jesus ruling in Jerusalem


one thing about prophesy (and this is Paul prophesying about a future event) is that you have to take all prophesy, Old and NT together, and make it one.. You can not mix and match prophesies, or make them seperate especially concerning end times events.

either way, I posted earlier maybe in another thread all the times Isreal was mentioned, Gentile was mentiond, And Christ (the root or the tree) was mentioned. And how Paul were speperating Israel (natural branches) and Gentile (unnatural branches) into the tree (Christ) and how we can not put them back together again, Paul is speaking of two groups of people here. Israel vs Gentile.. Please. do not be wise in your own mind as Paul warned.
1. Where is it written in the New Testament, that when Jesus will return, there will be some time for repentance (no matter if Jew or Gentile)?
Paul describes his return this way:

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

------------------------------------

2. Until

"...until the full number of the Gentiles has come in and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

When were our sins taken away?
When Jesus was crucified on the cross. Its not any future event.

And all Israel will be saved by His cross. How?
By fullness of Gentiles coming into the (believing) Jewish branch.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
1. Where is it written in the New Testament, that when Jesus will return, there will be some time for repentance (no matter if Jew or Gentile)?
Paul describes his return this way:

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

------------------------------------

Um. Wrong event,, And people left alive here on earth then will have a chance to be saved, 144000 Israeli will be saved, 12000 from each tribe, two witness will be saved, ad then you have the martyrs, Revelations shows many many many people who were saved after that event happens..Still praying to God for the people on earth..

When Christ actually returns, it will look like John told is in Rev 19..

2. Until

"...until the full number of the Gentiles has come in and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

When were our sins taken away?
When Jesus was crucified on the cross. Its not any future event.
You need to read again, It did not say their sin would be removed, It said their ungodly ways (sins against God) would be taken away, they will repent, and walk with God in other words. The OT has many prophesies of speak of this time when Isreal will repent of her sins against God and worship him in spirit and truth, this is the even Paul is speaking of.

And yes, this is a future even, This is HOW ALL ISREAL (the blind and unblind) will be saved at that future event


And all Israel will be saved by His cross. How?
Oh, Like you and I are saved, We repented.. and turned to God.. How else has anyone been saved since adam first sinned?


By fullness of Gentiles coming into the (believing) Jewish branch.

Nope. that is not what it says, That is adding to the word of God, did you not just tell me not to do that? why are you doing it?

The fulness of the gentile is speaking of an event, a time in the future, It is talking about the end of Gentile reign over jerusalem, whcih is still happening even today.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#77
Um. Wrong event,, And people left alive here on earth then will have a chance to be saved....
That does not make any sense. Christ will return for his Church and then there can be another church? People have NOW chance to be saved, not AFTER His return.

And yes, this is a future even, This is HOW ALL ISREAL (the blind and unblind) will be saved at that future event[/B][/COLOR]
Cross is not a future event. Prophecy in the Old Testament was written in the future tense, but for us its already a past tense. When Paul quotes OT prophecy, it has a future tense, because it was a future for OT, do not let it confuse you.

Nope. that is not what it says, That is adding to the word of God, did you not just tell me not to do that? why are you doing it?
Its written one or two verses before this one.

The fulness of the gentile is speaking of an event, a time in the future, It is talking about the end of Gentile reign over jerusalem, whcih is still happening even today.
Paul is talking about salvation, so fullness of Gentiles means their fullness in the church.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#79
LOL it is, but you can't follow it, that's your problem. The expansion of Israel (not the Jews)

No I CAN follow it. Can YOU? Apparently not! Israel is the Jews!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
That does not make any sense. Christ will return for his Church and then there can be another church? People have NOW chance to be saved, not AFTER His return.
Another church? Where do you get this stuff from?

and of course it does not make snese, Your not interpreting prophesy correctly Your removing Israel from the equation.





Cross is not a future event. Prophecy in the Old Testament was written in the future tense, but for us its already a past tense.
Paul spoke of a future event, Not the cross.

Paul did not say God would remove their sin to save them (the cross) , he said he would remove their ungodly living.. and they would turn back to their God. Huge difference.

And he said he would remove it from JACOB, Not the church unless you think the church is living ungodly right now?



Its written one or two verses before this one.
Oh Where? Since this quote is from an OT prophesy it was said centuries before Paul wrote it, not just a few verses.

In the OT passage, He said he will turn them from their sin, And God will never again turn from their thought.


Is 59:
“The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the Lord. [SUP]21 [/SUP]“As for Me,” says the Lord, “this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” says the Lord, “from this time and forevermore.”



Paul is talking about salvation, so fullness of Gentiles means their fullness in the church.
No, he is not He is talking about Isreal being blind in part. but on a future day, turning to god and repenting, Just like all the OT prophets said they would

The OT prophesy was about Isreal NO GENTILE WAS INCLUDED IN THE PROPHESY, it was about the restoration of unbelieving Isreal only!