Jesus drank wine on occation is that correct???

[AgeofKnowledge]

One reason people make a big deal about drinking alcohol is because it's an addictive drug and some people develop into alcoholics from drinking it. If you'd ever seen what alcohol does to the life of an alcoholic, you'd have a more respect for the the destructive power of alcohol.

The Greek word for"wine" in the New Testament can mean either alcoholic or non-alcoholic. Here's a good article on this topic:

Did Jesus Turn Water Into Wine?

As for Paul's admonition to Timothy note that earlier in 1 Timothy, Paul had listed among the characteristics of those who would be leaders in the church that they be "not given to drunkenness" (1 Tim 3:3) or "not indulging in much wine"(1 Tim 3:8).

In advice to Titus, elders need to be examples who are "not given to drunkenness" (Tit 1:7), and the elder women in the church are to be taught not to be "addicted to much wine" (literally, "slaves to wine," Tit 2:3). In all these injunctions, the emphasis is clearly on moderation; namely, a responsible use of alcohol that does not lead to its control of one’s life. This is in keeping with a central principle of Christian life stated by Paul in Ephesians 5:18: "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." The only legitimate controlling reality in the believer’s life is to be God’s Spirit. All other controlling realities are, in fact, idolatrous.

In light of these prohibitions against the excessive use of alcohol, Paul’s advice to Timothy, "Stop drinking only water and use a little wine" (emphasis mine), implies that Timothy may have concluded, from the warnings against excessive use, that total abstinence was called for. It may even be that the false teachers, in their prohibition against certain foods (1 Tim 4:3), had argued for total abstinence.

In any case, Timothy’s total rejection of alcohol seems to have had harmful consequences for his health. So Paul, in keeping with his warnings against abusive use, counsels for the use of "a little wine." In this, he is simply reflecting the common use of wine, especially for medicinal purposes, in the ancient world. Its beneficial effects "against dyspeptic complaints, as a tonic, and as counteracting the effects of impure water, were widely recognized in antiquity" and are confirmed by modern medicine. Paul’s view on this matter may have been backed by the advice of his fellow worker Luke, the beloved physician.​

Jesus may never have drank a sip of alcohol in his life and the apostles, if they did drink alcohol after their conversion, certainly did not drink it to the point of intoxication.

You might want to be careful about going around pushing alcohol because "Jesus and the apostles drank it" when that's just not the case.

Luke 7....

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”

Plus the water to wine miricle.


So wouldn't this suggest that Jesus had perhaps the occational glass of wine? That's why I don't know why some people make such a big deal about some of this stuff. It's like they think if you have one drink you've become an alcholic or something. I'm not saying it's for everyone.

But did Jesus drink? Or am I reading that verse wrong?

 

[gb9]

here is a big thing: people in ministriy have seen achohol destroy lives and families that they forget that not everyone who drinks is giong to end up that way.

 

[gb9]

i also think that where the Bible speaks we must speak but where it is silent we must be silent. threre is not one verse that says drinking is a sin.

 

[Matt37777]

here is a big thing: people in ministriy have seen achohol destroy lives and families that they forget that not everyone who drinks is giong to end up that way.

I don't think it's the alcohol though. Like a hammer can build a house or kill a person. It's not the hammers fault what it does. It's the users.

 

[gb9]

right. people are sinfull.but sometimes our brothers and sisters in Christ seem to blame it on things not people.

 

[RedTent]

The water supply in Jesus’ time, and our supply of pure water was different, so when we decide about obeying what God says about not getting drunk we must apply what Jesus said about law. He pointed out law, but said it was changed so we weren’t to just obey it legalistically but also from the heart. (Matt. Chapter 6) We are told not to be drunk, but never told not to drink wine.

In our time there are some people whose body is not created in a way they can tolerate alcohol without craving it so easily become addicted. We ask God not to lead us into temptation each time we say the Lord’s Prayer, but these people are constantly led into temptation. There are no other physical symptoms of having this problem until the craving happens. So drinking alcohol needs to be done with great care. We also need to be aware, with love, of the people around us who may have this problem.

 

[teuful_hunden]

The word οἶνος is the word most often used and can refer to both firmented wine and fresh wine or new wine that hand not yet had time to firment. This is the difference pointed out in the wedding event when Jesus turned the water into wine. This wine was regarded as good or better wine because there was no firmentation process. The wine was fresh. This is the wine that was customarily served first. After the guests had drunk their fill the older wine was then served.

pure speculation it makes no comment on it's quality based on it's lack of fermentation

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

What I've seen is that by far most people who drink, become intoxicated periodically from drinking it. They then deny that this occurs in their life (e.g. denial) or justify it. These are the same people that tell others it's OK to drink and many of the people they tell this to become addicted to it over time.

At what point, do you begin to be responsible for justifying your own intoxication and purveyance of addiction on other people?

Using scripture to justify drinking alcohol when you know you drink it because you like the pleasure of having the oxygen reduced in the blood going to your brain so you can feel the effects of it (e.g. drunkeness) is pretty sorry. So is using scripture to encourage other people to do likewise.

here is a big thing: people in ministriy have seen achohol destroy lives and families that they forget that not everyone who drinks is giong to end up that way.

 

[MichelleL]

What they drunk isn't on the market. It was extremely mild. This is what people drunk most of the
time.

Please explain to me how you can change the grapes and the natural fermentation process from thousands of years ago to currant day, please? I just don't see how in the world it wouldn't ferment creating alcohol. Makes no sense to stupid, little me.

I also struggle with the idea that scripture says Jesus drank wine and that is was really grape juice. Wouldn't that be a bit misleading? If He drank wine, then it is telling us it is okay (in moderation). So, why would Gods Word mislead us by calling something wine when it was really grape juice? I just don't buy that. I can't see that God would try to 'rtick' us into believing it wasn't wine when it was grape juice.

No insult intended, but I have yet to hear a good explaination.

 

[MichelleL]

Please explain to me how you can change the grapes and the natural fermentation process from thousands of years ago to currant day, please? I just don't see how in the world it wouldn't ferment creating alcohol. Makes no sense to stupid, little me.

I also struggle with the idea that scripture says Jesus drank wine and that is was really grape juice. Wouldn't that be a bit misleading? If He drank wine, then it is telling us it is okay (in moderation). So, why would Gods Word mislead us by calling something wine when it was really grape juice? I just don't buy that. I can't see that God would try to 'trick' us into believing it wasn't wine when it was grape juice.

No insult intended, but I have yet to hear a good explaination.

and would truly like to understand this from others perspectives.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


I have seen many people drunk, and I always see that the abundance of the heart comes out when they get a little less guarded by being a bit too tipsy. If what is in the heart does not defile, neither does the drink. We're already dead. It really depends on the specific situation. I know of times that it has been edifying to others that I accept what they offer, and sometimes what they offer is alchohol. I'm not worried about the abundance of my heart getting out though, actually, I'm trying to get it all out, but it just keeps on a flowing

1Co 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Co 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


The real us has not yet appeared, but can still be seen through our actions, attitudes, thoughts, and words. We're from Heaven, and we're children of Light, cause that's what we're made out of.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Many have already answered this correctly, but I wanted to weigh in with a few things:

(1) the Greek word for "wine" means "wine." There was no such thing as "unfermented" wine at the time of Jesus. It wasn't until the 19th century that humans figured out how to preserve juice without fermenting it. In fact, according to historians, wine back then would have been a bit stronger than most wines today.

(2) Yes, alcoholism is a very real problem, but not everyone who drinks has an alcohol problem. There are plenty of people who can have one drink with a meal, and then not drink again for months. I just had a glass of wine tonight at a fund-raiser. I didn't even finish it. It was nice, but no big deal.

(3) Not only did Jesus drink, Jesus commanded us to drink. "Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." Now, if someone has an alcohol problem, I'm sure Jesus has no problem with them drinking grape juice at communion instead of wine. But that does not change the fact that the commandment is to drink the WINE, which is HIS BLOOD, shed for all people for the forgiveness of sins. At least, that's what the Bible says.

Whoever is going around telling people that the wine in Jesus' day wasn't alcoholic is a liar. I know a lot of people here have been fooled into believing that lie, through no fault of their own, but because they were told this by someone they trusted. It makes me sad, and a little curious about where that dirty rumor started, and why someone would try to mislead so many Christians.

 

[BarlyGurl]

The word οἶνος is the word most often used and can refer to both firmented wine and fresh wine or new wine that hand not yet had time to firment. This is the difference pointed out in the wedding event when Jesus turned the water into wine. This wine was regarded as good or better wine because there was no firmentation process. The wine was fresh. This is the wine that was customarily served first. After the guests had drunk their fill the older wine was then served.

Very good...

 

[Stephen63]

Jesus did not make fermented wine during his first miracle. Those that know the life of Jesus knows that he lived under the law throughout most of the four Gospels. The law teaches not to drink wine. To say Jesus made fermented wine means he sinned against God. I find it amusing how people think the word 'wine' always means fermented, especially since the words 'grape juice' is nowhere in Scripture. Grape juice will not ferment simply because of age. It will only get bitter. All races of people who lived in those areas around the Jews drank grape juice because of the bad water. I have some websites that shows the Greek and Hebrew words for wine, and what they mean.
Wine, Alcohol, and the Bible
A Preview of Wine in the Bible
Wine in the Bible - Discussion of Bible references to wine and alcohol
Most wines today have an average of 15% alcohol content or more. According to the Old Testament, anything over 10% was considered strong drink. The answers are in the Bible, and on the Internet. The phrase "I don't see what's wrong with it" can be used on about any subject under the sun.

 

[Stephen63]

Many have already answered this correctly, but I wanted to weigh in with a few things:

(1) the Greek word for "wine" means "wine." There was no such thing as "unfermented" wine at the time of Jesus. It wasn't until the 19th century that humans figured out how to preserve juice without fermenting it. In fact, according to historians, wine back then would have been a bit stronger than most wines today.

(2) Yes, alcoholism is a very real problem, but not everyone who drinks has an alcohol problem. There are plenty of people who can have one drink with a meal, and then not drink again for months. I just had a glass of wine tonight at a fund-raiser. I didn't even finish it. It was nice, but no big deal.

(3) Not only did Jesus drink, Jesus commanded us to drink. "Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." Now, if someone has an alcohol problem, I'm sure Jesus has no problem with them drinking grape juice at communion instead of wine. But that does not change the fact that the commandment is to drink the WINE, which is HIS BLOOD, shed for all people for the forgiveness of sins. At least, that's what the Bible says.

Whoever is going around telling people that the wine in Jesus' day wasn't alcoholic is a liar. I know a lot of people here have been fooled into believing that lie, through no fault of their own, but because they were told this by someone they trusted. It makes me sad, and a little curious about where that dirty rumor started, and why someone would try to mislead so many Christians.

You obviously need to do your homework before you start calling people liars. I don't appreciate that, since that means you're calling me one.

Christians just don't go around calling people liars, especially people they don't know. Look at the sites:
​

Wine, Alcohol, and the Bible
A Preview of Wine in the Bible
Wine in the Bible - Discussion of Bible references to wine and alcohol​

 

[unclefester]

You obviously need to do your homework before you start calling people liars. I don't appreciate that, since that means you're calling me one.

Christians just don't go around calling people liars, especially people they don't know. Look at the sites:
​

Wine, Alcohol, and the Bible
A Preview of Wine in the Bible
Wine in the Bible - Discussion of Bible references to wine and alcohol​

Do the math Stephen.


Acts 2 : 13-15
13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine."
14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15 For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.[a]

 

[zone]

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' But wisdom is proved right by her actions." NIV

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.” ESV

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. KJV


why would the Pharisees call Jesus a drunkard if the wine was nonalcoholic?

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

You obviously need to do your homework before you start calling people liars. I don't appreciate that, since that means you're calling me one.

I am sorry you feel that I am calling you a liar. Please know that I am not accusing you of lying. I believe that a liar has to be aware that what they are saying is not the truth, and I believe you honestly believe the things you say, because of the links you provided. You have been misled. I believe you are an innocent victim in this.

I looked at the links you provided. It is possible that the person who wrote those articles is a liar, and realizes he (or she) is telling untruths about Scripture. It is also possible that that person is simply sharing what he or she learned from someone else, and is similarly an innocent victim. I cannot judge one way or another, except to say the words written are not true.

The important thing to note is that those "Bible studies" do not reference any Hebrew or Greek scholar. The person expects us to believe that this word means this and that word means that, but his only "support" for it is his own say-so. He has provided no more scholarship than I have. Right now, you just have two different people with two different opinions. I fully admit that I have not provided you with any scholarship, either. A simple google search would turn up dozens of articles on the topic, and going to your nearest Bible school's library to look up the references would confirm what those articles say. Since your pages do not provide references, we have no way to back them up.

I can understand you would be upset, to find out something you have been taught is a lie. I would be upset, too. Heck, I have been taught lies, before, too, and I'm upset at first when they are disclosed to be lies, and when I learn the truth. That is why, when it comes to Scripture, I don't just assume someone else knows what they're talking about, unless or until that person has "proven" him or herself to me.

(1) I don't trust ANYTHING written on the web without references. Anyone can publish anything on the web. Check out how many pages there are devoted to "proving" that homosexuality is not a sin through Bible study similar to what your pages provided ... still think you can trust the web?

(2) Once a pastor, teacher, colleague or other scholar has proven his or her understanding of Scripture, I go to that person for clarification. I have many friends who are ministers, priests, Sunday School teachers, etc. Of course, just because someone has been trained in Scripture doesn't mean they're always right. But among those who have shown to me they approach Scripture with care, reading the text with an open heart and the Holy Spirit, I will come to them with questions I have.

(3) I learned Hebrew and Greek. I don't think it should be necessary for everyone to learn Hebrew and Greek just to read the Bible, but it really does help. If you don't know those languages, it makes Step 2 above that much more important, finding someone who does know the languages, whom you can trust.

Now, for the issue at hand, it's a very nice make-believe idea to think that some wine in Jesus' time might have been non-alcoholic, but it is physically, scientifically impossible, since the process of preserving grape juice without fermenting it was not discovered until the 19th century.

Jesus could have turned water into grape-juice rather than wine. Heck, Jesus could turn water into milk, coffee, or Kool-aid if he wanted to. He can do anything. If he had done that, the writer of the Gospel would have said, "Jesus turned the water into another beverage that wasn't wine." If it didn't have alcohol in it, it wouldn't have tasted anything like wine. The guests at the wedding thought it was wine, so we have the possibility for it not to be wine, but then we've got a Gospel-writer lying, which is also problematic.

The wine Jesus drank at the Last Supper, the wine he passed around to his disciples, commanding them to drink it, and to drink it every time in the future to remember him, that absolutely had alcohol. This was the Passover meal, according to Scripture, and the Jewish festival absolutely requires that it be wine, not grape-juice (even if such were possible back then) or water. That cup had wine in it. Jesus commanded his disciples to drink. If you don't drink, you're not a disciple.

You don't have to know any Hebrew or Greek to know that the pages you referenced are just plain wrong.

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' But wisdom is proved right by her actions." NIV

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.” ESV

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. KJV


why would the Pharisees call Jesus a drunkard if the wine was nonalcoholic?

They also said this:
Matthew 12:24 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.


Matthew 9:3 3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.


Matthew 26:65 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Mark 2:7 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke 5:21 21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

John 10:33 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Mark 15:3 3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.

Luke 23:10 10 And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.

Matthew 26:59Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Did they say these things? Yes. Was it true? NOOO!!! I'm surprised that a "teacher" such as yourself would use the Scriptures in such a way to accept the words of the Pharisees as truth. To me, that's straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

 

[intercessorginger]

From my research on the "wine question" and the ancient use of wine I have found that wine was watered down and added to water in order to purify it. Commoly it was watered down, 3 parts Water to one part wine. (pretty weak). I know Jesus was accused of drinking and carrying on but that doesn't prove he actually was doing those things. Remember he was also accused of having a demon!
When you think about the Lord remember he was God in the flesh here on the earth, so his behavior was perfect. If the scripture says, do not be filled with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit..that is the best course to take.