Jesus is God.... why do some "christians" deny this?

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#61
Jul 3, 2015
55,897
26,059
113
#61
SassyServant said:
What does "a type of Christ" even mean? Never heard of such words before.
Click to expand...
Shadows and types point forward to the coming of Jesus.
One such type personified is Joseph:

[TABLE="class: tabstyle1 tab95, width: 603"]
[TR]
[TH="class: tab45, bgcolor: #C0C0D0, align: center"]Similarities[/TH]
[TH="class: tab25, bgcolor: #C0C0D0, align: center"]Joseph[/TH]
[TH="class: tab25, bgcolor: #C0C0D0, align: center"]Jesus[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are first-born.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 30:22-24[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 1:25 (of Mary)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are shepherds.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:2[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 2:26, 26:31
John 10:11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are the most loved of their fathers.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:3[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 3:17, 12:18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were prophesied to be rulers.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:5-11[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Daniel 7:13-14
Micah 4:7,5:2
Psalm 2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both Joseph’s and Jesus’ brothers were jealous of them, and did not believe them.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:4-5, 11[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]John 7:3-5, 15:18-19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The prophecies that Joseph would rule his brothers (the tribes of Israel), and Jesus would rule the whole world, including Israel.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:6-11[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Daniel 7:13-14
Psalm 2:1-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was sent by his father to his brothers. Jesus was sent by His Father to Israel.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:13,18-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 21:37-38, Mark 12:6-7, Luke 20:13-15, John 5:23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was apparently put to death, and Jesus truly, by their own people to get them out of the way.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:18-28[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 2:22-23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Reuben wanted to rescue Joseph. Pilate wanted to rescue Jesus.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:21-22[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 27:24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was sold as a slave to Egypt. Jesus was betrayed for the price of a slave.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:26-28[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 26:15, Exodus 21:32, Zechariah 11:12-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both went to Egypt.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:28[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 2:13-15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were made slaves.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 39:1[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Philippians 2:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were falsely accused.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 39:11-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 26:59-61[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Yahweh was with them both.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 39:3,21,23
Acts 7:9[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 10:38
Luke 2:52
John 1:1-2, 3:2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were with two others condemned to die, one of which was pardoned and given life.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 40:1-3,20-22[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Luke 23:32,39-43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]God’s Spirit indwelt them both.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:38[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Luke 4:1
Acts 10:38[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The king of Egypt exalted Joseph ruler over all to bring all under the king’s rule. Jesus is exalted to bring all under God’s rule.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:40-44[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 2:32-33
1 Corinthians 15:27-28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]All knees bowed to Joseph. All knees will bow to Jesus.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:43[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Philippians 2:10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were given a name meaning Savior.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:45(“Savior of the World” or “Sustainer of Life”)[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 1:21(“Yahweh is Salvation”)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were given a gentile bride by the King.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:45[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]2 Corinthians 11:2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Troubled times come during their rule. 7 years of “tribulation”.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:54-55[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Mark 13:8
Jeremiah 30:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The king of Egypt appointed Joseph to be the sole source of life for all. God appointed Jesus to be our sole source of eternal life.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:55-57[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 4:12
1 John 5:11-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph’s brothers did not recognize him. Jesus’ own people didn’t either.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 42:8[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]John 1:10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Trouble for Joseph’s brothers. Trouble for Israel (“Jacob’s trouble”).[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 42:21-22,36[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Isaiah 40:1-2
Jeremiah 30:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was finally revealed to his brothers. Jesus to finally be revealed to Israel.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:3[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Zechariah 12:10
Matthew 24:30-31
Revelation 1:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The evil Joseph’s brothers intended God meant for good to save them. The same is true of the evil Jesus’ own people intended to him…[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:5-8
Genesis 50:20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 3:12-18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]…therefore they are forgiven.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:5,10-15[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Luke 23:34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph’s brothers shared Pharaoh’s favor because of Joseph, not themselves. We share God’s favor because of Jesus, not because we are worthy.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:16-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Ephesians 2:4-8
Philippians 4:19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are to bring all under rule of the King.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 47:19-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Ephesians 1:10-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are Savior[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 47:25[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 13:23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph’s sons (Manasseh and Ephriam) come through his gentile wife and are given full tribe status. Gentiles who believe are considered full members of God’s people.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 48:5,9[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Hebrews 2:13(Isaiah 8:18)
Acts 28:28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]While only Jesus was truly sinless, Joseph is one of the few people significantly written about in the Bible of which no sins are mentioned.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"](silent)[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]1 Peter 2:22[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
http://dtjsoft.com/joseph-a-type-of-christ/
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#62
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#62
AKAP said:
So do you know the meanings of these verses so as to be confident that they support your conclusion that Jesus is truly God. It's just a worthwhile thing to do, I believe.

In Christ, Always
Click to expand...
I think 'resurrection33' tried to sneak back in and got banned. o_O
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#64
Aug 4, 2016
2,033
509
113
#64
You said this enoch987, "Read Proverbs 8 (the maker of men was created, this can mean that he was chosen for the office of creator) and Ezekiel 28. Ez. 28 is the Septuagint which the Catholic Bible follows reads that Satan was created and placed with the anointed cherub but when sin was found in Satan, the anointed cherub walked Satan out the garden.
the protestant bible reads that Satan was created as the anointed cherub."

Well I have read Proverbs 8 and it is "NOT" teaching what you think it's teaching. Secondly, Jesus Christ is not a created being and furthermore Jesus Christ is not the subject of Proverbs 8. The subject and the speaker at Proverbs 8 is "Wisdom" personified. In other words many writers even in the Bible use personification as it pertains to an abstract concept.

For instance, if I was to say, "boy she's a beautiful car you have there" does not mean the car is a person. The car is "personified." Or from the Bible, Psalm 85:10, "Lovingkindness and truth have met together, Righteousness and peace have KISSED EACH OTHER." Or how about Genesis 4:7, "Sin is crouching at the door."

Getting back to Proverbs 8 and in the very first verse, "Does not wisdom call, and understanding LIFT HER VOICE." Or how about Proverbs 8:11, "For wisdom is better thant jewels, And all desirable things CANNOT COMPARE TO HER." And if you read further down at Proverbs 8:15-21 you should understand what i'm saying. Provebs 8:15, "By me kings reign, and rulers decree justice." Who's the "me" in the verse enoch? Look at vs16, "By me princes rule, and nobles, all who judge rightly." Who's the me here enoch?

Now we get to Proverbs 8:22 where it's "assumed" not only by the Jehovah Witnesses but early Christian writes assumed from this verse that Jesus was a created being. Not so, again the subject is wisdom and in fact look what Proverbs 9:1 states, "Wisdom has built HER house, SHE has hewn out HER seven pillars." And if you read on you will notice all the "she's" being used in the verses. But don't worry enoch, it's a common mistake that you and many others think that Jesus Christ is a created being. In fact, many (especially in the cults) use Revelation 3:14 to bolster their belief that Jesus is a created being but that verse won't work either. Read it and tell me why? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
S

SassyServant

Guest
#65
#65
Magenta said:
Shadows and types point forward to the coming of Jesus.
One such type personified is Joseph:

[TABLE="class: tabstyle1 tab95, width: 603"]
[TR]
[TH="class: tab45, bgcolor: #C0C0D0, align: center"]Similarities[/TH]
[TH="class: tab25, bgcolor: #C0C0D0, align: center"]Joseph[/TH]
[TH="class: tab25, bgcolor: #C0C0D0, align: center"]Jesus[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are first-born.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 30:22-24[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 1:25 (of Mary)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are shepherds.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:2[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 2:26, 26:31
John 10:11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are the most loved of their fathers.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:3[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 3:17, 12:18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were prophesied to be rulers.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:5-11[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Daniel 7:13-14
Micah 4:7,5:2
Psalm 2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both Joseph’s and Jesus’ brothers were jealous of them, and did not believe them.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:4-5, 11[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]John 7:3-5, 15:18-19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The prophecies that Joseph would rule his brothers (the tribes of Israel), and Jesus would rule the whole world, including Israel.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:6-11[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Daniel 7:13-14
Psalm 2:1-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was sent by his father to his brothers. Jesus was sent by His Father to Israel.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:13,18-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 21:37-38, Mark 12:6-7, Luke 20:13-15, John 5:23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was apparently put to death, and Jesus truly, by their own people to get them out of the way.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:18-28[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 2:22-23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Reuben wanted to rescue Joseph. Pilate wanted to rescue Jesus.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:21-22[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 27:24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was sold as a slave to Egypt. Jesus was betrayed for the price of a slave.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:26-28[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 26:15, Exodus 21:32, Zechariah 11:12-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both went to Egypt.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 37:28[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 2:13-15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were made slaves.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 39:1[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Philippians 2:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were falsely accused.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 39:11-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 26:59-61[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Yahweh was with them both.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 39:3,21,23
Acts 7:9[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 10:38
Luke 2:52
John 1:1-2, 3:2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were with two others condemned to die, one of which was pardoned and given life.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 40:1-3,20-22[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Luke 23:32,39-43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]God’s Spirit indwelt them both.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:38[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Luke 4:1
Acts 10:38[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The king of Egypt exalted Joseph ruler over all to bring all under the king’s rule. Jesus is exalted to bring all under God’s rule.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:40-44[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 2:32-33
1 Corinthians 15:27-28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]All knees bowed to Joseph. All knees will bow to Jesus.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:43[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Philippians 2:10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were given a name meaning Savior.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:45(“Savior of the World” or “Sustainer of Life”)[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Matthew 1:21(“Yahweh is Salvation”)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both were given a gentile bride by the King.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:45[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]2 Corinthians 11:2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Troubled times come during their rule. 7 years of “tribulation”.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:54-55[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Mark 13:8
Jeremiah 30:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The king of Egypt appointed Joseph to be the sole source of life for all. God appointed Jesus to be our sole source of eternal life.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 41:55-57[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 4:12
1 John 5:11-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph’s brothers did not recognize him. Jesus’ own people didn’t either.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 42:8[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]John 1:10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Trouble for Joseph’s brothers. Trouble for Israel (“Jacob’s trouble”).[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 42:21-22,36[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Isaiah 40:1-2
Jeremiah 30:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph was finally revealed to his brothers. Jesus to finally be revealed to Israel.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:3[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Zechariah 12:10
Matthew 24:30-31
Revelation 1:7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]The evil Joseph’s brothers intended God meant for good to save them. The same is true of the evil Jesus’ own people intended to him…[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:5-8
Genesis 50:20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 3:12-18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]…therefore they are forgiven.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:5,10-15[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Luke 23:34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph’s brothers shared Pharaoh’s favor because of Joseph, not themselves. We share God’s favor because of Jesus, not because we are worthy.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 45:16-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Ephesians 2:4-8
Philippians 4:19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are to bring all under rule of the King.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 47:19-20[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Ephesians 1:10-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Both are Savior[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 47:25[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Acts 13:23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]Joseph’s sons (Manasseh and Ephriam) come through his gentile wife and are given full tribe status. Gentiles who believe are considered full members of God’s people.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Genesis 48:5,9[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]Hebrews 2:13(Isaiah 8:18)
Acts 28:28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tab45"]While only Jesus was truly sinless, Joseph is one of the few people significantly written about in the Bible of which no sins are mentioned.[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"](silent)[/TD]
[TD="class: tab25"]1 Peter 2:22[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
http://dtjsoft.com/joseph-a-type-of-christ/
Click to expand...
Thank you for this.
 
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