Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

[just-me]

Right, basically I see no difference on how to be obedient to God. The difference between OT and NT is that Yeshua has given us access to the Spirit, and He wrote the covenant on our hearts and in our mind instead of on a stone tablet. I belive God didn't change anything on how He operates, but changed us on how we operate that way we can come into a closer relationship with Him.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The context is Jeremiah 31:31-34, what is “near to disappearing” is the sinful disposition of a person that breaks the law, not the standard of the law. Remember that we broke the law, not God. God didn't drop the standard of instructions in His law because Israel chose disobedience; rather, He installed a Renewed Covenant to write His original law upon the heart through the work of the Holy Spirit, according to Messiah. The fact of the matter is that in Christ Jesus (Messiah); God raised the bar and magnified the Torah.

“The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.” Isaiah 42:21

Because mankind broke Covenant, God requires complete renovation on our part, not His part of the Covenant. Hebrews 8:13, in its twisted form, became one of the “crown jewels”of Torahless (lawless) Christianity which teaches that the Torah (law of God) is disappearing, or has disappeared by now, but nothing could be further from the truth.

“As also in all his epistles, (Paul's writings; see 2 Peter 3:15)speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:16

Paul exhorts followers of Christ Jesus to “put on the new man” and “put on Messiah.”

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” Galatians 3:27

“And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.” Ephesians 4:24

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:” Colossians 3:10

We are called to reject all false religion and doctrine that makes void God's Torah (instruction in righteousness) according to the “old man”of sinful predisposition, and live in the “new man” who has a righteous disposition, and delights in the law of Messiah (Christ Jesus). His law is His Father's Torah...... God's law.

“I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.” John 8:38

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” John 12:49

“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” John 14:10
​

 

[Elin]

These Scriptures show no "peace" (fellowship) offering to be made in the NT.

It was one of the OT sacrifices that have been fulfilled in Christ and are not part of the new order (Heb 9:10) of the new covenant (Lk 22:20).

Paul took a Nazerite vow, there is a Peace offering at the end of the vow.
So actually yes there is a peace offerening in the NT.

Straw man. . .read it again.

 

[Elin]

Yes, we all live in grace who have totally embraced Jesus Christ.

This does not translate as disobedience or to hate the law any more, for the law no longer can condemn those who are in Jesus Christ. Now we are free to obey the law without the former enmity

The former enmity of Eph 2:14-15 is between Jew and Gentile, not between man and the law.

 

[Elin]

This s true. The law was given in addition to blessings and cursing.

The blessings and curses are the terms of the Sinaitic Covenant, which was based on the law.

Those same principles of blessing apply to all who are grafted in,

The curses do not (Ro 8:1).

 

[Elin]

Right, basically I see no difference on how to be obedient to God. The difference between OT and NT is that Yeshua has given us access to the Spirit, and He wrote the covenant on our hearts and in our mind instead of on a stone tablet.

The Mosaic regulations no longer apply, only the Ten Commandments apply.

I belive God didn't change anything on how He operates, but changed us on how we operate that way we can come into a closer relationship with Him.

Then you are unaware of the difference between the old and new wine skins, and between the old and new order (Heb 9:10).

 

[Biblelogic01]

Straw man. . .read it again.

So when Paul was going to the temple to finish the vow, he was not going to finish it according to Torah is what you're saying? That does not make sense as far as the stature of who Paul was. I believe Paul did observe Torah, and if he was to end the Narite vow properly, it would be with offerings. Just saying. Scripture is scripture, you can't change it for what it says. I don't know how else to describe that, it says what it says. If you don't want to accept it than don't, but that's what it says.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Elin,

You're saying everything Jews do is wrong, and they don't have anything right.

If the Jews are so wrong in what they are doing, why are some of the most successful, prosperous, blessed people out there Jewish?
Why do observant Jews always seem happy?
I'm not saying Jews are better than others, but the ones who are observant to their beliefs are always happy and seem like they're always in a good mood and have no negativity in their lives.

Blessings and all that is good, comes from God.

So I would beg to differ on the fact that it's just the 10 that should be followed.

 

[Yonah]

it is refreshing seeing someone who actually studies for themselves instead of just accepting someone else's words.. the scripture clearly teaches that sin is transgression of the law, (1John 3:4) and all scholars agree that this letter was written AFTER our Savior ascended to his Father.... also we have John 14:15, the law is the law of liberty not bondage, bondage is sin and sin is transgression of the law....

 

[phil112]

...............If the Jews are so wrong in what they are doing, why are some of the most successful, prosperous, blessed people out there Jewish?
...............

Please, people, just read your bible. If you aren't sure, post that way, not as you are all knowing about scripture. Ignorance masquerading as wisdom is just ugly.

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

 

[Elin]

Straw man. . .read it (my post) again.

So when Paul was going to the temple to finish the vow,
he was not going to finish it according to Torah is what you're saying? That does not make sense as far as the stature of who Paul was. I believe Paul did observe Torah, and if he was to end the Narite vow properly, it would be with offerings. Just saying. Scripture is scripture, you can't change it for what it says. I don't know how else to describe that, it says what it says. If you don't want to accept it than don't, but that's what it says.

Read the bolded part of my post (following) again:

Paul took a Nazerite vow, there is a Peace offering at the end of the vow.
So actually yes there is a peace offerening in the NT.

These Scriptures show no "peace" (fellowship) offering to be made in the NT.

It was one of the OT sacrifices that have been fulfilled in Christ and are not part of the new order (Heb 9:10) of the new covenant (Lk 22:20).

The NT does not require, prescribe, legislate, etc. OT peace offerings for NT believers.

 

[Elin]

Elin,

You're saying everything Jews do is wrong, and they don't have anything right.

You have me confused with someone else.

 

[just-me]

Read all of Post 457

This s true. The law was given in addition to blessings and cursing.

The blessings and curses are the terms of the Sinaitic Covenant, which was based on the law.

A good Father will not punish until the instructions are totally comprehended. Likewise of the opposite. God will not promise punishment or blessings until His children understand accordingly.
The Sinai Covenant (the Sinaitic Covenant, as you put it) was commemorated by sacrificial blood in Exodus 24:7-8 after chapters 20 thru 23. In Deuteronomy 11:26-28 is the first mention of blessings and cursings together, and the previous chapters in Deuteronomy (chapters 9 and 10) quotes Moses of him telling the story of what happened with the 1st and 2nd set of stone tablets.

The breakdown of blessings and cursings are in Deuteronomy 27:15-26 and Deuteronomy 28:1-13 just before Israel crossed the Jordan. That was 40 years after the Sinai Covenant as I read the chronology of Israel during their trek through the wilderness.

Joshua 8:34-35
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.

Those same principles of blessing apply to all who are grafted in,

The curses do not (Ro 8:1).

That was obviously a superfluous comment. Here's the complete story on this subject according to scripture.

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Romans 2:9-10

So Romans 8:1 is a very good verse to show us how to stay away from condemnation, and what it takes to be blessed. Did the curses vanish with the law in your opinion?

"But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed." John 7:49

2 Peter2:12-14
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Matthew 7:2-23
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Biblelogic01]

I do read my bible, I believe on a different thread I gave you my explaination on what I have found in studying scripture as far as matching up what happenned in the OT with the NT. What I don't get is how people do not see that the OT and the NT line up with eachother. You cannot teach the NT without the OT. Also I understand the fact that the entire NT is written by Jews, therefor there it is written in a Jewish mindset.


If you really want me to I can re-type it, but this time I'll throw the scriptures that go with the post as well.

 

[Elin]

I do read my bible, I believe on a different thread I gave you my explaination on what I have found in studying scripture as far as matching up what happenned in the OT with the NT. What I don't get is how people do not see that the OT and the NT line up with eachother. You cannot teach the NT without the OT. Also I understand the fact that
the entire NT is written by Jews, therefor there it is written in a Jewish mindset.

Except for Luke.

And actually, the NT was written in a Holy Spirit/God mindset (2Tim 3:16), unless the Holy Spirit is Jewish.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Except for Luke.

And actually, the NT was written in a Holy Spirit/God mindset (2Tim 3:16), unless the Holy Spirit is Jewish.

You have a point and I see what you're saying, but that is not what I meant.

If a Jew says "No one knows the day or the hour."
What are they saying?
This is a new moon reference, even though we have technology today to calculate this, it's still not 100% accurate.
For example, if someone asks for my birthday in the Hebrew calendar (Which its on the first of Adar I), I could say "no one knows the day or the hour", because the first of Adar I is a new moon.
This is what I mean it's written with a Jewish mindset, it's going to be in that type of language (not literal language).

Another example:
If I'm raised baptist my whole life and become a baptist pastor and the spirit leads me to write a book, I'm going to write that book spirit lead, but it would also be with a bapstist mindset.
I'll rephrase/correct it, the majority of the authors to the NT were Jewish/raised Jewish, and even though they were spirit lead, they still wrote it in the mindset that they were raised in which would be Jewish.

I hope that makes more sense on what I am saying as far as it was written in a Jewish mindset.

 

[Elin]

You have a point and I see what you're saying, but that is not what I meant.

If a Jew says "No one knows the day or the hour."
What are they saying?
This is a new moon reference, even though we have technology today to calculate this, it's still not 100% accurate.
For example, if someone asks for my birthday in the Hebrew calendar (Which its on the first of Adar I), I could say "no one knows the day or the hour", because the first of Adar I is a new moon.
This is what I mean it's written with a Jewish mindset, it's going to be in that type of language (not literal language).

Another example:
If I'm raised baptist my whole life and become a baptist pastor and the spirit leads me to write a book, I'm going to write that book spirit lead, but it would also be with a bapstist mindset.
I'll rephrase/correct it, the majority of the authors to the NT were Jewish/raised Jewish, and even though they were spirit lead, they still wrote it in the mindset that they were raised in which would be Jewish.

I hope that makes more sense on what I am saying as far as it was written in a Jewish mindset.

I understand what you are saying. . .but I'm not sure "the day and the hour" thing is actually factual.

It has the "smell" of novel.

 

[Biblelogic01]

I understand what you are saying. . .but I'm not sure "the day and the hour" thing is actually factual.

It has the "smell" of novel.

"the day or the hour" reference is a Jewish reference.

Ask any Jew, believer of Yeshua or not. They'll tell you that's a reference to the new moon, a new month.

In my studies on that POV in scripture when I believe it's Yeshua referencing His 2nd coming the way I understand on the link-up is: In Revelation it states that Yeshua is going to return at the blasting of trumpets. Well there is a fall feast called Yom Teruah (feast of trumpets). Yom Teruah is on a new moon, and on Yom Teruah there is the command to blast the shofar (trumpter made from a ram/goats horn). So if Yeshua references His second coming as "no man knows the day or the hour", His statement would be correct because it references Yom Teruah and lines up with Revelations.

Now which Yom Teruah He returns on, no one but God knows that one. So the phrase could have 2 different meanings; 1 which is the day to observe for His return, and 2 no one knows which one it is (one meaning which Yom Teruah).

 

[Elin]

"the day or the hour" reference is a Jewish reference.

Ask any Jew, believer of Yeshua or not. They'll tell you that's a reference to the new moon, a new month.

In my studies on that POV in scripture when I believe it's Yeshua referencing His 2nd coming the way I understand on the link-up is: In Revelation it states that Yeshua is going to return at the blasting of trumpets. Well there is a fall feast called Yom Teruah (feast of trumpets). Yom Teruah is on a new moon, and on Yom Teruah there is the command to blast the shofar (trumpter made from a ram/goats horn). So if Yeshua references His second coming as "no man knows the day or the hour", His statement would be correct because it references Yom Teruah and lines up with Revelations.

Now which Yom Teruah He returns on, no one but God knows that one. So the phrase could have 2 different meanings; 1 which is the day to observe for His return, and 2 no one knows which one it is (one meaning which Yom Teruah).

Thanks, that is worth considering. . .

 

[Femalelamb]

Look at the bottom right hand corner of your screen and you will see right above the window to post in, and the "Bible Discussion Forum" that says pages 21 of 21 <<First < and so on. Click the (<<First) and it will take you to the beginning of the thread. then you can scroll and click on the next page and read whatever you want. I'm being somewhat factitious in the Opening Post. When addressing another person, and you are responding to what they wrote, you can reply with their quote by clicking "Reply With Quote", and then put your comment in as you like.

thanks for taking time to tell me this. I appreciate it.

 

[bondservant]

God's Riches At Christ Expense = grace