Jesus wouldn't have had to die on the cross if...
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M
In human terms yes, you get punished when you get caught.
In God’s terms no, he dealt with many people in the bible, God knows everything
even our thoughts. Plus He even knows when we think in our heart that
there is no God! You can’t deceive God.
you are already eternally dead even for thinking the wrong thing.
We are spiritually dead, we need to be born again in the spirit, at that
point we become a new creation. Only newly created born in the
spirit people will enter the kingdom of God.
Too many people think if I’m good enough I will get to heaven. But that’s
not what the bible says.
2 Corinthians 5:17-19 NKJV
[17] Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old
things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
[18] Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself
through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
[19] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to
us the word of reconciliation.
John 3:1-14,16-21 NKJV
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler
of the Jews. [2] This man came to Jesus by night and said to
Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God;
for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
[3] Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[4] Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old?
Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
[5] Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born
of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of
the Spirit is spirit. [7] Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be
born again.' [8] The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the
sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
[9] Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
[10] Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and
do not know these things? [11] Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak
what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive
Our witness.
[12] If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will
you believe if I tell you heavenly things? [13] No one has ascended to
heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man
who is in heaven.
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [16] For God so loved the
world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in
Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not
send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world
through Him might be saved.
[18] "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not
believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name
of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation,
that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather
than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For everyone practicing
evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should
be exposed. [21] But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his
deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
You are forgiven for you know not what you say.
Why did God create? Because He is a creator from the beginning
Why does God save? He is a savior from the beginning
You might be confused by these statements but God is eternal attributes that are TRUTH, found in His spirit, expressed as His word.
His attributes (desire) being true means that they must be accomplished at one point in time for God to be God (Truth) and that’s the reason:
Isa 55: 10"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
These attributes make up the will of God which doesn’t change from the beginning. It also means that it is these attributes that decides what happens and when it happens.
God being the savior from the beginning means man has to fall so that he is saved and if man doesn’t fall, then God ceases to exist because the beginning of being the savior would have been a lie- God forbid. Let our minds be far from this kind of thinking.
Why did God create? Because He is a creator from the beginning
Why does God save? He is a savior from the beginning
You might be confused by these statements but God is eternal attributes that are TRUTH, found in His spirit, expressed as His word.
His attributes (desire) being true means that they must be accomplished at one point in time for God to be God (Truth) and that’s the reason:
Isa 55: 10"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
These attributes make up the will of God which doesn’t change from the beginning. It also means that it is these attributes that decides what happens and when it happens.
God being the savior from the beginning means man has to fall so that he is saved and if man doesn’t fall, then God ceases to exist because the beginning of being the savior would have been a lie- God forbid. Let our minds be far from this kind of thinking.
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M
True,
But there would always have been someone else, their offspring.
I think also that we tend to overlook the role of Satan, Adam and Eve always get the blame
for the fall. People forget about the deceiving beguiling role of Satan who always seeks
to destroy who goes around like a roaring lion seeking to devour.
Satan is cunning he deliberately targets us, I was shown this in a dream. He is more
vile and evil beyond all that we can comprehend. He is a master in human nature he
knew exactly how to twist Adam and Eve around his little finger.
The love of God is beyond measure it’s indescribable, I’ve had first hand experience
of the love of God in a personal encounter when I was about 11 years old, it’s
part of my testimony and I still can’t fully describe it. It’s beyond anything I can fully
explain. It’s like the whole goodness, peace, light, calm, love of the entire planet
all together and more.
Whereas in the dream i had, about Satan he is entirely the opposite, evil
beyond description. He targets and stalks us, knows exactly what buttons to push.
It’s why we needed a Saviour and why we need to put on the whole armour of God.
But there would always have been someone else, their offspring.
I think also that we tend to overlook the role of Satan, Adam and Eve always get the blame
for the fall. People forget about the deceiving beguiling role of Satan who always seeks
to destroy who goes around like a roaring lion seeking to devour.
Satan is cunning he deliberately targets us, I was shown this in a dream. He is more
vile and evil beyond all that we can comprehend. He is a master in human nature he
knew exactly how to twist Adam and Eve around his little finger.
The love of God is beyond measure it’s indescribable, I’ve had first hand experience
of the love of God in a personal encounter when I was about 11 years old, it’s
part of my testimony and I still can’t fully describe it. It’s beyond anything I can fully
explain. It’s like the whole goodness, peace, light, calm, love of the entire planet
all together and more.
Whereas in the dream i had, about Satan he is entirely the opposite, evil
beyond description. He targets and stalks us, knows exactly what buttons to push.
It’s why we needed a Saviour and why we need to put on the whole armour of God.
That's it right there. Many falsely believe the cross was plan B. Some Dispensationalists believe if the Jews had simply received Christ as Messiah he would not have had to die on the cross. Instead he would have set up the kingdom at their receiving him, so the cross was plan B, or plan C "because they rejected him."
It's kind of like the open theist heretics on here and their faulty view of Jonah, God's call to repentance, and Nineveh. God really doesn't have to fulfill his word, he can go either way he decides and since he isn't immutable to them (since they misunderstand Scripture) he can change his mind. For the record, the truth of the matter of Scripture isn't always superficial surface level truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 is quite important. Also, an attack on the immutability of God (teaching God changes his mind/learns &c) isn't just an attack on his omniscience, it is an attack on him being very God because it ultimately attacks his omnipotence.
Nonetheless, in the Dispensational mind (of many) all the prophesy about Christ dying for our iniquities could have been foregone if man chose another route, that is, if the Jews accepted Christ as their King.
Those who hold to these misnomers have a misunderstanding of God, misunderstand his attributes and lack the comprehensive understanding that the Scriptures must be fulfilled. There is no way the Jews would have received Christ (in the Dispensational understanding) to the end that there would have been no cross, no Gentiles being brought in via the Gospel, among a myriad of other fulfillments.
I'd suggest some serious study on the attributes of God, learning of the difficult Scriptures and get to know God.
It's kind of like the open theist heretics on here and their faulty view of Jonah, God's call to repentance, and Nineveh. God really doesn't have to fulfill his word, he can go either way he decides and since he isn't immutable to them (since they misunderstand Scripture) he can change his mind. For the record, the truth of the matter of Scripture isn't always superficial surface level truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 is quite important. Also, an attack on the immutability of God (teaching God changes his mind/learns &c) isn't just an attack on his omniscience, it is an attack on him being very God because it ultimately attacks his omnipotence.
Nonetheless, in the Dispensational mind (of many) all the prophesy about Christ dying for our iniquities could have been foregone if man chose another route, that is, if the Jews accepted Christ as their King.
Those who hold to these misnomers have a misunderstanding of God, misunderstand his attributes and lack the comprehensive understanding that the Scriptures must be fulfilled. There is no way the Jews would have received Christ (in the Dispensational understanding) to the end that there would have been no cross, no Gentiles being brought in via the Gospel, among a myriad of other fulfillments.
I'd suggest some serious study on the attributes of God, learning of the difficult Scriptures and get to know God.
M
Not always, laws come and go with political
correctness. Think about Daniel, bowing to the statue,
the fiery furnace.
Also some countries where it is illegal
to have unregistered churches not controlled
by the state or illegal to have a bible, illegal to
do street preaching etc, illegal to have house
groups.
We had some people visit our church earlier
in the year who were explaining about the
persecution in their country. They had to hide
bibles as they could be imprisoned if caught
with one.
At some point a time will come where
christians will have to decided whether to break
civil laws and follow Gods laws. In many
countries it’s already happening.
correctness. Think about Daniel, bowing to the statue,
the fiery furnace.
Also some countries where it is illegal
to have unregistered churches not controlled
by the state or illegal to have a bible, illegal to
do street preaching etc, illegal to have house
groups.
We had some people visit our church earlier
in the year who were explaining about the
persecution in their country. They had to hide
bibles as they could be imprisoned if caught
with one.
At some point a time will come where
christians will have to decided whether to break
civil laws and follow Gods laws. In many
countries it’s already happening.
So you say God planned to let Adam and Eve eat from the tree? 
He allowed it because He gave human beings free will when He created them. Which would mean freely choosing to obey or disobey. And that is true to this day.
More than likely. Even if the Serpent (the fallen angel Lucifer) had not appeared on the scene, the love and obedience of Adam and Eve would need to be TESTED. Hence the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was *the tree of testing*.
A commandment had been given, and God would observe if that commandment was diligently obeyed. Indeed it was hardly a problem, since the entire Garden of Eden had everything man could wish for - all kinds, of fruits, vegetables, and herbs. So there was no compelling reason to disobey God in this ONE MATTER.
A commandment had been given, and God would observe if that commandment was diligently obeyed. Indeed it was hardly a problem, since the entire Garden of Eden had everything man could wish for - all kinds, of fruits, vegetables, and herbs. So there was no compelling reason to disobey God in this ONE MATTER.
I personally believe that God knew what would happen and had a plan in place right from the start.
I don't fully get it. But that is what I believe
Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
Romans 16:20
20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
I don't fully get it. But that is what I believe
Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
Romans 16:20
20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.