Jesus wouldn't have had to die on the cross if...

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
#41
Well, it still puzzles me why the saviour took so long.
Same here.

To be honest I have searched researched and looked for answers.
Yet I cannot find one.

Some may say they have the answer, as for me I don't.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
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#42
Same here.

To be honest I have searched researched and looked for answers.
Yet I cannot find one.

Some may say they have the answer, as for me I don't.
That's why I believe in dispensationalism.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
...we could obey the law perfectly (this includes both the law of Mose and the commandments of Christ).
I think it is deeper than this, Adam ate from a fruit tree and needed christ to die

He would not have had to die for a few reasons.

1. He did not love us so much, and he made us all perfect and if we sinned, so be it, the ones who lived a perfect life would get to heaven (we would all have to be born as Adam was created, perfect. with the ability to not sin, the the ability to sin)

2. we could be sinless.. which means we NEVER work out of the flesh (for self gain) EVER. (whether God loved us or not)



 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#44
I think it is deeper than this, Adam ate from a fruit tree and needed christ to die

He would not have had to die for a few reasons.

1. He did not love us so much, and he made us all perfect and if we sinned, so be it, the ones who lived a perfect life would get to heaven (we would all have to be born as Adam was created, perfect. with the ability to not sin, the the ability to sin)

2. we could be sinless.. which means we NEVER work out of the flesh (for self gain) EVER. (whether God loved us or not)



Amen, I should do a sermon on YT about this.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
Well, it still puzzles me why the saviour took so long.
it took a long time in our view. In Gods view, it took but just a few days. Remember our time is nothign like Gods time, to him a thousand years is as a day.

He came when it was perfect timing, thats all I will say, What that timing was? we can ask when we see him, I doubt we will know before then.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#46
it took a long time in our view. In Gods view, it took but just a few days. Remember our time is nothign like Gods time, to him a thousand years is as a day.

He came when it was perfect timing, thats all I will say, What that timing was? we can ask when we see him, I doubt we will know before then.
Yeah. Lately I watched many sermons by Robert Breaker and Gene Kim.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
#47
That's why I believe in dispensationalism.
To be honest I don't know what that is or get it.

You have may have guessed.

I'm a simple man.
Not really theological.

I just love people and want to see them set free in Jesus.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
To be honest I don't know what that is or get it.

You have may have guessed.

I'm a simple man.
Not really theological.

I just love people and want to see them set free in Jesus.
not everyone needs to be a theologian..lol Amen bro.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,481
12,950
113
#49
To be honest I have searched researched and looked for answers. Yet I cannot find one.
Well, the Bible does have the answer.

ECCLESIASTES 3

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2
A time to be born, and a time to die;

a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3
A time to kill, and a time to heal;

a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;

a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;

a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6
A time to get, and a time to lose;

a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7
A time to rend, and a time to sew;

a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8
A time to love, and a time to hate;

a time of war, and a time of peace.

Regarding Christ's first come, Scripture says: WHEN THE FULNESS OF TIME WAS COME...
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#50
Well, the Bible does have the answer.

ECCLESIASTES 3

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2
A time to be born, and a time to die;

a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3
A time to kill, and a time to heal;

a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;

a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;

a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6
A time to get, and a time to lose;

a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7
A time to rend, and a time to sew;

a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8
A time to love, and a time to hate;

a time of war, and a time of peace.

Regarding Christ's first come, Scripture says: WHEN THE FULNESS OF TIME WAS COME...
Yeah, that's a beautiful chapter.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
#51
Well, the Bible does have the answer.

ECCLESIASTES 3

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2
A time to be born, and a time to die;

a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3
A time to kill, and a time to heal;

a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;

a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;

a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6
A time to get, and a time to lose;

a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7
A time to rend, and a time to sew;

a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8
A time to love, and a time to hate;

a time of war, and a time of peace.

Regarding Christ's first come, Scripture says: WHEN THE FULNESS OF TIME WAS COME...
I know the above but how does that relate to my post your responding to?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
#52
Night night everyone.

Been a long week.

Much love and grace to you all.

Your brother in Jesus.

Bill
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,741
1,728
113
#53
A 'natural/carnal man who is without the Holy Spirit of God can NOT obey or submit to God, please see Rom 8v7. 1Cor 2v14.
What do you mean when you say can't submit?
What about obedience to faith?
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#54
...we could obey the law perfectly (this includes both the law of Mose and the commandments of Christ).
We are born into sin, so He still would of had to die, even if everyone would of kept the Law, the Law brings the knowlegde of sin, it does not take away sin.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#55
We are born into sin, so He still would of had to die, even if everyone would of kept the Law, the Law brings the knowlegde of sin, it does not take away sin.
What about the animal sacrifices?
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#56
It is true if our first parents had not sinned then their would be no need for Christ to die. But then our first parents would not die either for the wages of sin is death.
Perhaps creation would of stayed the same and we all would meet our God in the cool of the day. No need to go to heaven as it would be known as the place that God resides in.
But to say that by the law of Moses and the commandments of Christ were followed that you would enter heaven is a lie.
Jesus said that no man comes to the father except through him. Christ is your only justification. To put it bluntly good people go to hell.
The short story of our parents show a loving God coming to the aid of his children who are held in bondage for a ramsom.
The first thing our parents knew was their nakedness in other words they became self aware and not God aware as they once were.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#57
What about the animal sacrifices?
Animal sacrifices only ever provided a limited atonement...
They had to be repeated over and over again for individual sins AND no animal sacrifice EVER saved anyone...

Animal sacrifices were however a vital reminder that sin could only be atoned for by death and the shedding of blood, and, were a shadow for the ONLY death and shed blood that can provide salvation - namely that of Jesus Christ's crucifixion...

If you want a sacrifice that means something - look to Jesus Christ!
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#58
Animal sacrifices only ever provided a limited atonement...
They had to be repeated over and over again for individual sins AND no animal sacrifice EVER saved anyone...

Animal sacrifices were however a vital reminder that sin could only be atoned for by death and the shedding of blood, and, were a shadow for the ONLY death and shed blood that can provide salvation - namely that of Jesus Christ's crucifixion...

If you want a sacrifice that means something - look to Jesus Christ!
Yeah, but the people who lived during the first four milleniums of history were not that lucky...