Job was a sinner too!

[Rockrz]

God had to prove a point to satan and the angels...

If that is true, then God is a liar:

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Needless to say, God is not he One lying so he did not willingly send satan to attack Job... there is a different reason and it's not cause God needs to prove a point to anyone.

God is always right and He does not have to prove it to anyone.

Can you still love and praise God even if He allows such things to happen to you?

God gave mankind authority... so it's not His fault when bad things come upon anybody.

Here are some reasons why people get in trouble found in God's Word:


Lack of Knowledge
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Lack of Vision
Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
(see also: 2 Corinthians 4:4, and Ephesians 1:18)

Proverbs 13:12
Hope deferred (put off) makes the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.

Being Carnal Minded
Romans 8:1-7
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Not Understanding the Lord's Body
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Unbelief
Hebrews 4:2-11
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Choosing to Reject Deliverance
Hebrews 11:35
...and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection

Some choose to not receive deliverance and go on to Heaven, even though deliverance has been made available to them through the anointing in God's Word.

However, this is not God's best as people that do this are willingly choosing to allow their lives to be cut short without regard to God's promise of long life spoken of in Psalms 91, among other places.


Our goal in staying here should be to impact as many lives as possible to not only make decisions for Christ to become born-again believers, but to learn and grow up to become overcomers in this life.

This is what "living" for God is all about. Dying is easy. The trick is to live an overcoming life and bring as many people as possible into the Kingdom of God because this pleases the Father as it's His desire for His house to be full.

 

[willybob]

There are some that mimic Satan and accuse Job? Nay God forbid such folly and mischief. However, Job was not a sinner. God said he was a righteous man..Sinners and the righteous are complete opposites in the text .Don't ever use Job for an excuse to commit the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom> That tactic is desperately reaching for straws..

Job was not a fornicator, not an idolator, not a pedophilia, not a liar, not a thief, not an excoriationer, not a murderer, not a covetous man, not a worshiper of false gods, not a railer, not a mocker, not a blasphemer, not a pagan holiday worshiper, not a deceiver, not one lacking seniority, but rather an upright man that hated evil and feared God. Sinners do not fear God. Job was perfect (morally upright having integrity) "telios" Christian maturity. Job never blasphemed God!

Was Job as perfect as Jesus? Certainly not. Neither was he expected to be. He was obedient to the amount of knowledge he possessed, (his measure given therein) That's all God requires from anyone..Was Job perfect in all knowledge and free fromm ignorance? No..Did he have sins of ignorance, stumblings, and mishaps, moments of anger, moments of doubt, human frailty and weakness being made subject to vanity like all men for his own good? Yes..Was he in need of the blood of the coming Messiah? Absolutely! Was he a sinner? NO!

Sinners are identified as the wicked in the text, the willful rebellious that refuse to come to the light. They are contrasted against the righteous on almost every page of scripture. Job in no wise was a man numbered among the wicked..I wonder how many would curse God and die after suffering the tribulations that Job encountered? I think it was the prophet Ezekiel who said it was an abomination to call a righteous man a sinner...hope this helps, be blessed, dig deep, and build your house (ark of righteousness)on the Rock of truth, because the flood of lies out of the mouth of the dragon covers the entire earth...

 

[willybob]

Could Behemoth Have Been a Dinosaur?

https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/could-behemoth-have-been-a-dinosaur

Behemoth, is metaphoric for the false prophet, the second beast of Revelation, who thinks he has the power to take in the whole river Jordon (river of life). Leviathan, the first beast, is the beast of pride, (humanism), that develops after following the lies of the second beast (the false prophet of apostate Christianity) who in-turn causes the whole church to follow after the first beast and receive his mark, the sons of perdition..

 

[Denadii]

I do think though there is a link.

If I am right blessings in the O.T. came as a result of keeping the law. Be good and God will bless you.
If God isn't blessing you then you ain't being good.

Today it's twofold.
If you ain't being blessed you haven't got enough faith or you are sinning.

Just my simple thoughts.

I love the book of Job.

We get an insight into the mind of God and the grace of God.

The following verse I love even though it makes me shudder every time I read it

Job 40:7
“Brace yourself like a man, because I have some questions for you, and you must answer them.

To me it's like "oh dear I'm in trouble here what's coming now"

There is not such thing as a Christian 'not having enough faith' Look..
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. God gave everybody the same amount of faith.. If this person has enough faith for something, so does everybody else. Only one measure of faith given.

I thought you might appreciate this.
Neither the book of Job nor any other book of the Bible indicates forthrightly when God’s servant Job lived upon the Earth. Furthermore, no biblical genealogies with chronological information, such as that found in Genesis 5 and 11, help in approximating the century in which Job lived. Nevertheless, various clues within the book of Job seem to indicate Job lived sometime after the Flood, but long before the time of Moses.
First, Job’s postdiluvian status seems apparent from a question Eliphaz raised in his final speech. While accusing Job of wickedness, Eliphaz asked: “Will you keep to the old way which wicked men have trod, who were cut down before their time, whose foundations were swept away by a flood?” (Job 22:16, emp. added). As Wayne Jackson noted: “That this is a reference to the Flood of Noah’s day is almost universally conceded by scholars” (1983, p. 58).
Second, that Job was a patriarch who lived prior to the time of Moses, and probably closer to the time of Abraham, seems evident from the following facts:

• Like other patriarchs of old (Genesis 8:20; 12:7-8; 31:54), Job, as the head of his family, offered up sacrifices to God (Job 1:5; cf. 42:8). In the book of Job, there is no mention of the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle, the temple, the Law of Moses, etc.
  
• Unlike Israelite law, where the family inheritance was passed on to daughters only in the absence of sons (Numbers 27:1-11; 36:1-13), Job gave his daughters “an inheritance among their brothers” (Job 42:15).
  
• Job’s material wealth was measured, not in money, but in the amount of livestock he owned (Job 1:3; 42:12), which is more characteristic of patriarchal times.
  
• Finally, that Job lived long before the time of Moses seems evident by the fact that the longevity of his life is more comparable to the long lives of the patriarchs who lived around 2200 B.C. The book of Job reveals that Job lived long enough to marry, become “the greatest of all the men of the east” (1:3), and then witness his first 10 children reach at least the age of accountability (1:5), and probably much greater ages (cf. 1:13,18). Then, after suffering greatly, losing all of his children and his material wealth, God blessed Job with 10 more children and twice as much wealth (42:10-13). The book of Job then concludes: “After this Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. So Job died, old and full of days” (42:10-17, emp. added). Thus, it would appear that Job lived well into his 200s or beyond. Interestingly, the Septuagint testifies that Job died at the age of 240—an age more comparable to the ancestors of Abraham (e.g., Serug, Abraham’s great-grandfather lived to be 230—Genesis 11:22-23).

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Job 34

35‘Job speaks without knowledge;
his words are without insight.’
36Would that Job were tried to the end,
because he answers like wicked men.
37For he adds rebellion to his sin;
he claps his hands among us
and multiplies his words against God.”

****

Did you know Job was a sinner too?

How does this change your understanding of the book of Job?

Do you see the lies and deceptions Job's friends repeated?

I see the book of Job reflected in modern day circles. Job's friends sound to me like many false prosperity gospel teachers.

Do you see the similarities?

Also the metaphoric language is hard to understand at times. I was wondering if folks had insight into it?

Does anyone have good sermons,books,articles, etc on the book of Job?

Elihu claim to be perfect in knowledge. Elihu spoke many words, but actually has very little knowledge of God. Notice which friends the Lord told Job to pray for (Job 42:7). The Lord completely ignores Elihu who was arrogant and ignorant.

 

[BillG]

There is not such thing as a Christian 'not having enough faith' Look..
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. God gave everybody the same amount of faith.. If this person has enough faith for something, so does everybody else. Only one measure of faith given.

I thought you might appreciate this.
Neither the book of Job nor any other book of the Bible indicates forthrightly when God’s servant Job lived upon the Earth. Furthermore, no biblical genealogies with chronological information, such as that found in Genesis 5 and 11, help in approximating the century in which Job lived. Nevertheless, various clues within the book of Job seem to indicate Job lived sometime after the Flood, but long before the time of Moses.
First, Job’s postdiluvian status seems apparent from a question Eliphaz raised in his final speech. While accusing Job of wickedness, Eliphaz asked: “Will you keep to the old way which wicked men have trod, who were cut down before their time, whose foundations were swept away by a flood?” (Job 22:16, emp. added). As Wayne Jackson noted: “That this is a reference to the Flood of Noah’s day is almost universally conceded by scholars” (1983, p. 58).
Second, that Job was a patriarch who lived prior to the time of Moses, and probably closer to the time of Abraham, seems evident from the following facts:

• Like other patriarchs of old (Genesis 8:20; 12:7-8; 31:54), Job, as the head of his family, offered up sacrifices to God (Job 1:5; cf. 42:8). In the book of Job, there is no mention of the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle, the temple, the Law of Moses, etc.
• Unlike Israelite law, where the family inheritance was passed on to daughters only in the absence of sons (Numbers 27:1-11; 36:1-13), Job gave his daughters “an inheritance among their brothers” (Job 42:15).
• Job’s material wealth was measured, not in money, but in the amount of livestock he owned (Job 1:3; 42:12), which is more characteristic of patriarchal times.
• Finally, that Job lived long before the time of Moses seems evident by the fact that the longevity of his life is more comparable to the long lives of the patriarchs who lived around 2200 B.C. The book of Job reveals that Job lived long enough to marry, become “the greatest of all the men of the east” (1:3), and then witness his first 10 children reach at least the age of accountability (1:5), and probably much greater ages (cf. 1:13,18). Then, after suffering greatly, losing all of his children and his material wealth, God blessed Job with 10 more children and twice as much wealth (42:10-13). The book of Job then concludes: “After this Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. So Job died, old and full of days” (42:10-17, emp. added). Thus, it would appear that Job lived well into his 200s or beyond. Interestingly, the Septuagint testifies that Job died at the age of 240—an age more comparable to the ancestors of Abraham (e.g., Serug, Abraham’s great-grandfather lived to be 230—Genesis 11:22-23).

I didn't say that in anyway shape or form.

I said some may say "If you are not being blessed by God then you don't have enough faith or are sinning"
Just like Job's friends were friends were questioning Job's plight as a result of sin.

I was trying to draw the parallel you made with prosperity teachers in today's culture.

Got no idea where you got what you think I was saying.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Job 6:24 King James Version (KJV)[SUP]24 [/SUP]Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

A prayer for everyone!

 

[Denadii]

I didn't say that in anyway shape or form.

I said some may say "If you are not being blessed by God then you don't have enough faith or are sinning"
Just like Job's friends were friends were questioning Job's plight as a result of sin.

I was trying to draw the parallel you made with prosperity teachers in today's culture.

Got no idea where you got what you think I was saying.

Well hey! You're right..That was BillyG. My mistake

 

[samuel23]

Hi Message: I can tell you are under some false teaching because I know the teaching of the message of the cross is that Elihu was arrogant and ignorant...the bible does not agree with that teaching. Elihu actually spoke the truth, God did not have to reprimand him or even have Job to pray for him. The idea that Elihu was arrogant and ignorant comes from your leader...NOT FROM THE WORD OF GOD. Read what the bible says about Elihu, the bible does not say any bad thing about the man! When your leader decided to add his opinion into the word of God, he made a big mistake, he has done this on many things and one day he will have to answer to God for it.

 

[Ariel82]

Elihu claim to be perfect in knowledge. Elihu spoke many words, but actually has very little knowledge of God. Notice which friends the Lord told Job to pray for (Job 42:7). The Lord completely ignores Elihu who was arrogant and ignorant.

That is not true.

God didn't show up until after Elihu spoke. he was an intercessor for Job and was a prophet of God.

Notice how God told Job three friends they were wrong and needed Job to pray for them. Notice how Job fell on His knees and repented.

God didn't say Elihu was wrong and he told Job exactly what he needed to repent of: placing his righteousness over God's sovereign will and justice.

 

[proverbs35]

Job is one of my favorite Biblical men.


Job’s Final Defense - Chapter 291Job continued his discourse:2“How I long for the months gone by,
for the days when God watched over me,
3when his lamp shone on my head
and by his light I walked through darkness!
4Oh, for the days when I was in my prime,
when God’s intimate friendship blessed my house,
5when the Almighty was still with me
and my children were around me,
6when my path was drenched with cream
and the rock poured out for me streams of olive oil.

7“When I went to the gate of the city
and took my seat in the public square,
8the young men saw me and stepped aside
and the old men rose to their feet;
9the chief men refrained from speaking
and covered their mouths with their hands;
10the voices of the nobles were hushed,
and their tongues stuck to the roof of their mouths.
11Whoever heard me spoke well of me,
and those who saw me commended me,
12because I rescued the poor who cried for help,
and the fatherless who had none to assist them.
13The one who was dying blessed me;
I made the widow’s heart sing.
14I put on righteousness as my clothing;
justice was my robe and my turban.
15I was eyes to the blind
and feet to the lame.
16I was a father to the needy;
I took up the case of the stranger.
17I broke the fangs of the wicked
and snatched the victims from their teeth.

18“I thought, ‘I will die in my own house,
my days as numerous as the grains of sand.
19My roots will reach to the water,
and the dew will lie all night on my branches.
20My glory will not fade;
the bow will be ever new in my hand.’

21“People listened to me expectantly,
waiting in silence for my counsel.
22After I had spoken, they spoke no more;
my words fell gently on their ears.
23They waited for me as for showers
and drank in my words as the spring rain.
24When I smiled at them, they scarcely believed it;
the light of my face was precious to them.[SUP]a[/SUP]
25I chose the way for them and sat as their chief;
I dwelt as a king among his troops;
I was like one who comforts mourners.




The Bible tells us that the Proverb's 31 woman's husband is respected at the gates (Pr 31:23). We know what it looks like for a man to be respected at the city gates because Job demonstrated that for us.

 

[dcontroversal]

Behemoth, is metaphoric for the false prophet, the second beast of Revelation, who thinks he has the power to take in the whole river Jordon (river of life). Leviathan, the first beast, is the beast of pride, (humanism), that develops after following the lies of the second beast (the false prophet of apostate Christianity) who in-turn causes the whole church to follow after the first beast and receive his mark, the sons of perdition..

The more you type, the more you show how much you do not know

 

[Denadii]

The more you type, the more you show how much you do not know

I believe, my friend, that they are actual creatures too. The bible mentions several cryptids and I think some chimera. Though I am not sure of the latter.

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe, my friend, that they are actual creatures too. The bible mentions several cryptids and I think some chimera. Though I am not sure of the latter.

Oh I agree....If we could sit and chat over coffee....I believe numerous things listed were real.....and the O.T. gives great insight into numerous things and truths missed by most and or swept under the rug by most....such as modern flight, genetic manipulation, nuclear war, modern warfare, dragons, dinosaurs, what is labeled as UFO's (erroneously) etc.........all found in scripture and supported by historical evidences.....such as cities in Pakistan and India that show signs of vitrification....only one thing causes vitrification......

 

[Denadii]

Oh I agree....If we could sit and chat over coffee....I believe numerous things listed were real.....and the O.T. gives great insight into numerous things and truths missed by most and or swept under the rug by most....such as modern flight, genetic manipulation, nuclear war, modern warfare, dragons, dinosaurs, what is labeled as UFO's (erroneously) etc.........all found in scripture and supported by historical evidences.....such as cities in Pakistan and India that show signs of vitrification....only one thing causes vitrification......

And real living giants today.

 

[willybob]

The more you type, the more you show how much you do not know

you can only see the text from a carnal perspective, thus its spiritual meanings are not given for you to know,,,the carnal mind perceives Leviathan and Behemoth to be dinosaurs or other fantasy animals..

 

[dcontroversal]

you can only see the text from a carnal perspective, thus its spiritual meanings are not given for you to know,,,the carnal mind perceives Leviathan and Behemoth to be dinosaurs or other fantasy animals..

Actually context does....and context is a word that alludes you....you also seem to have a difficult time understanding the simple verbiage of any given text!

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

That is not true.

God didn't show up until after Elihu spoke. he was an intercessor for Job and was a prophet of God.

Notice how God told Job three friends they were wrong and needed Job to pray for them. Notice how Job fell on His knees and repented.

God didn't say Elihu was wrong and he told Job exactly what he needed to repent of: placing his righteousness over God's sovereign will and justice.

How can Elihu a sinner intercede for a righteous man, "Job."
Are you aware that Noah, Daniel, and Job are the big three in the bible. Please read Ezekiel 14:14-16.

When you study Elihu statements about Job, you will find Job never said those things. Because Elihu youthfulness God gave him mercy for harshly commanding Job to "listen." Elihu efforts to explain God is intellectualism; it shows not at all any relationship with the Lord; regrettably, it is the state of many modern professing Believers. Elihu says many words, but in reality he says nothing. Much of what the "three friends"and Elihu said was completely untrue.

 

[Rockrz]

Job was not a sinner.....Was Job as perfect as Jesus? Certainly not.

OK, then he was a sinner... one can be righteous before the Lord if they are sincere and are not willingly / knowingly committing sin against God which was the case with Job. He was not committing any known sin against God... but he was in error as he had no faith in his sacrifices he was making for his children so he kept doing the same sacrifice over and over due to being in fear.

At that time in history, Job had no way of knowing that he was not supposed to be in fear and that fear would break down the hedge of protection that God had put around him which is why God told the devil that Job was already in his power (satan didn't know that).

But, Job was still righteous before the Lord because where there's no law, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15) so the Lord did not hold Job accountable for being in fear.

In the New Covenant we learn much more revelation than Job ever had access to which is how we know fear is a sin and is something that opens the door to the devil to cause trouble.

In Revelation 21:8, Jesus lists the fearful as being ones that are cast in to the lake which burns with fire and brimstone... so this is an example of fear obviously being a sin.

 

[pottersclay]

Job is considered the oldest book in the bible. Some have considered it a type of poetry.