King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?

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Dec 3, 2016
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Yes, no third party... someone other than themselves.

God did not say it's not possible for the person to continue walking in sin after getting born again and be cast in to heLL

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

He that is not an overcomer (walks after the Spirit, not the flesh - see Romans 8) ain't gonna make it...l
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Some need to cease and desist their assault on the biblical doctrine of OSAS and concern themselves rather with whether they are even saved at all.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
(2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)

this seems to me to be a saying that smacks of recommendation towards applying oneself to self-critical education and study, doesn't it?


 
Dec 3, 2016
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Some need to cease and desist their assault on the biblical doctrine of OSAS and concern themselves rather with whether they are even saved at all.
That's hilarious... claiming one is not saved cause they disagree... and have plenty of scriptural references to prove it... with yo favorite false teaching is not even saved.

That made my day man! I needed a good laugh!

You can always tell when the devil gets his panties all bunched up cause he starts claiming folk ain't even saved!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Yes, no third party... someone other than themselves.
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful:
He cannot deny himself.
(2 Timothy 2:13)


K
J
V

we're not changing the subject.

the point you tried to make was that a sure hope of salvation and a secure faith in our Salvation is "
not taught" by the as Word read in the king james translation.
which...
... obviously ...
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
(1 John 5:5
KJV)

where do you get the idea that a certain english-language version of the scripture translated in the early 17[SUP]th[/SUP] century doesn't teach the truth about salvation by the graciousness of God through faith alone in the crucified and risen Son of God?

((& Romans 8? read verse 9. Paul is informing the believers that they are in the Spirit not because of the evidence of works but because of the sealing and indwelling gift of God through faith. it says this in every faithful translation. and if you've read any of the chapter past verse 14 - especially from verse 23 on, how in the world can you believe that Paul's gospel teaches "overcoming" = achieving works in the flesh?))


[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

we don't need to drag the thread off the rails for the sake of straw-man-eternal-security. the argument against it mischaracterizes what salvation is and is built on a pagan tacit assumption that saying majick words or taking part in a majick ritual = salvation. which is bunk. 1 John 2:19

 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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It seems that your concept of "trustworthy" begins and ends with the KJV. Because of that, I don't think we have common ground to discuss the concept.
Agreed, especially when you have nothing to offer that is 100% trustworthy...so it's not an argument against the KJV, but against final authority. Man does not want to give up final authority. Period.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I've seen enough of this carp. It's ridiculous, and completely undermines your preference of the KJV. If, as you claim, confusion and doubt come with more than one Bible, then you need to toss your KJV and get a Tyndale, and use it only. The KJV came after, and therefore is a cause of confusion. Or perhaps you need to get a copy of the Vulgate.

Please, for the sake of your own credibility, stop using this illogical and self-refuting argument.
Tyndale's translation was in the process of perfection. It was not a completed, perfect work.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Agreed, especially when you have nothing to offer that is 100% trustworthy...so it's not an argument against the KJV, but against final authority. Man does not want to give up final authority. Period.
Your comment is insipid, because you assert the authority of men... the men who translated the seven printed Greek editions into the English of the KJV.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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hi all!!!!!!! i use the blue letter bible to look up things i want to be very specific on you can see the greek words and how they are translated and what they mean so use that nice resources we have today..... God bless blue letter bible whoever made that!!! if i'd have to pick a single bible translation in english it would be GOD's Word translation!!!!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Let's see, you are judging and condemning me for believing in the Bible? When I totally and absolutely believe every word, from the day I was saved over 37 years ago?
If you believe every word then why correct it the way you do? You believe every word of which translation? The Greek and Hebrew manuscripts? The ones from Egypt or the ones from Antioch?

When you translate and correct a word using Greek, it is you who ends up determining which English word is best suited for the translation. You become the final authority on what God has said.

We should never put more emphasis on the "originals" than God has. God allowed His "originals" to be broken, cut up, burned, etc...God knew full well that He could preserve His pure, perfect words outside of the originals into what ever language He would choose.
 

Dai3234

Senior Member
Sep 6, 2016
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Using one world order theology obviously...






Rule number one when studying the Word of God... pay NO attention to anyone that went to seminary.






The NIV (nearly inspired version) is luciferian so if you are listening to this guy you have serious problems that you do not know about yet... but you will.
I understand your argument about pulpit punchers and Mr Anderson etc. And he is a bit, whatever? But the Bible lessons he gives except a few angry punchy ones, are the best explanations I've heard online. Grace to you ministries, conferences etc are nice and all, but they take ages to cover a single point. Anderson covers say 50 etc in the same time. With real life explanations for today. Not just yesterday.

I'm not going to judge him but I pray to God he becomes, well, a more Christian natured man, in Jesus name Amen.

But I'm still stuck on KJV as the meanings are far more of a meaning for a verse than say, NIV, ESV, etc. The hidden meanings are partially included without the use of Amplified word extensions. Though Amplified is really, really fast for me to read, and I'm a really slow reader. I don't know why, I just zoom through it. Must be the built for it especially? Maybe?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Lemma guess... they taught you "once saved, always saved", right?

The Word of God does not teach that and if it was a baptist organization they most likely taught this as almost all baptists do!

Long before I ever got saved, I went to school with kids that did all sort of bad stuff that were "good baptists" who webt to church regularly and thought they were saved in spite of living in open sin and they said that once someone gets saved it matters not what they do cause... they gonna go to Heaven anyway.

Before I knew anything about God, I knew that was bogus!

They change and become apostate very rapidly these days...

Actually, they taught us all the different views of soteriology from superlapsarianism on one hand to rigid Arminianism on the other (no, they did not call it that.) Each view had the Bible verses supporting it, and who the main scholars and historical people were who supported these views. We talked about extremely heretical views, like docetism (Christ was not a man) and Arianism (Christ was not God) and how that affects how we viewed salvation. For each of the Orthodox views, we were given the writings of the people who support it, and why they supported it.

Then we discussed it in class. As I said, we had the full range of Bible believing Christians, so we heard from Mennonites and charismatics who were Arminian, and Lutherans and Reformed Baptists and fundamentalist Baptists. Then we were told to search the Scriptures for ourselves, and pray. That is a true Biblical education - learning the full range of beliefs and heresies, then going to the Bible to see what it says.

I went into seminary a very scared and empty person, who had been fed Arminianism for 25 years. I was told if I believed anything else, but that I could lose my salvation, andn anything else was heresy. Instead, I learned that there are Bible believing Christians with different views, who can back up their beliefs. I also begin to think about how God saved me, about how he had never left me, even when I turned away from him, and realized that God had saved me, I had not saved myself. And that God was not going to leave or forsake me.

It gave me a real security, to know that I was not under condemnation of mere men, like you, Rock, and that God is the one who saved me, and he is the one who has kept me. And before you start throwing more condemnatory judgements my way, I have repented of my sins, and I continue to confess my sins, and most important, to follow Jesus.

Just because you went to some school with some kids who were obviously not following Jesus, does not condemn all Baptists, nor all Reformed, nor all Arminians. I knew some Arminian adults, who were preaching on Sunday morning, sleeping around on Saturday, gambling in casinos on Friday till 4 am. Does that mean all Arminians do this?

You need to lose the black and white attitude. And probably, study the Bible a bit more. Probably in a version you can understand. You sure don't seem to have the basics of Christian love and understanding the Bible preaches about, maybe it is because the KJV language has you confused? Or not!

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:34-35
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Tyndale's translation was in the process of perfection. It was not a completed, perfect work.
Don't sidestep. By the logic of your earlier statement, the KJV brings in confusion, period.

If you have read the Preface to the Reader from the 161 KJV, you would know that the KJV is also not a completed, perfect work.
 

notbythesword

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Apr 28, 2015
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I understand your argument about pulpit punchers and Mr Anderson etc. And he is a bit, whatever? But the Bible lessons he gives except a few angry punchy ones, are the best explanations I've heard online. Grace to you ministries, conferences etc are nice and all, but they take ages to cover a single point. Anderson covers say 50 etc in the same time. With real life explanations for today. Not just yesterday.

I'm not going to judge him but I pray to God he becomes, well, a more Christian natured man, in Jesus name Amen.

But I'm still stuck on KJV as the meanings are far more of a meaning for a verse than say, NIV, ESV, etc. The hidden meanings are partially included without the use of Amplified word extensions. Though Amplified is really, really fast for me to read, and I'm a really slow reader. I don't know why, I just zoom through it. Must be the built for it especially? Maybe?
You’ll always read quicker in a language format that you more frequently speak. Having a more modern language structure, that is spoken every day, allows for words to be processed quicker. Although I’m sure many hardcore KJV guys have familiarized themselves with the format to the extent that it is no longer an issue for them.
 

Dai3234

Senior Member
Sep 6, 2016
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So your issue is not the translation, it is the gospel? You think only the KJV presents the gospel? This is going to take a while, but here are some comparisons of different versions of

1 Cor. 15:1-7

NIV
"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved,if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

ESV
"
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles."

The Message (A paraphrase!)
"1-2 Friends, let me go over the Message with you one final time— this Message that I proclaimed and that you made your own; this Message on which you took your stand and by which your life has been saved. (I’m assuming, now, that your belief was the real thing and not a passing fancy, that you’re in this for good and holding fast.)

3-9 The first thing I did was place before you what was placed so emphatically before me: that the Messiah died for our sins, exactly as Scripture tells it; that he was buried; that he was raised from death on the third day, again exactly as Scripture says; that he presented himself alive to Peter, then to his closest followers, and later to more than five hundred of his followers all at the same time, most of them still around (although a few have since died); that he then spent time with James and the rest of those he commissioned to represent him; and that he finally presented himself alive to me. It was fitting that I bring up the rear. I don’t deserve to be included in that inner circle, as you well know, having spent all those early years trying my best to stamp God’s church right out of existence."
KJV
"15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles."



The way I see the above comparisons, is that the gospel is identical. No one has changed the truth of who Jesus is, that he came to die for our sins, that he was resurrected and seen by his disciples, then 500 and then Paul and James! Even the Message has the same gospel in its paraphrase.

In fact, the only real difference I can see, is that KJV has a bunch of words we don't use anymore, which makes it harder to understand what it is talking about. Again, my reason for being against a version which is written in a language from 400 years ago.

You may be right about Matt 24:30 being different in the KJV. Here is what ESV says:

"Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matt 24:30 ESV


Maybe Matt 13:42? Let's see what the major versions say:

NIV
"
They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

HCSB
"
They will throw them into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

NASB
"
and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


Hmm, lots of gnashing of teeth in all those modern versions! Not sure what verse or what version you are talking about.


Here is the Greek, just for fun! (I always find it interesting when a word like teeth "odonton"is so similar to the Romance languages. Tooth in French is "dent."

"
καὶ βαλοῦσιν αὐτοὺς εἰς τὴν κάμινον τοῦ πυρός· ἐκεῖ ἔσται ὁ κλαυθμὸς καὶ ὁ βρυγμὸς τῶν ὀδόντων."

I confess, I do fail totally to see your issue. Try and get the verse references right, and maybe getting the format your posts a bit better. But, no! You are still trying to prove KJV is better because it has flowery language, and then you use an example that is the same in most modern versions? No wonder what you are saying doesn't make sense! Then there are those straw men that make utterly no sense.......
Uhh, as I clearly said, I think? The AMP. Amplified Bible. Supposedly on scale above ESV towards interlinear.

The Gospel message says you CANNOT lose salvation.
The Good Shepherd message. He cannot fail, will not fail.

None promised to Him by the Father shall escape His grip ( roughly).

I think that I'll check some more, then post, but I've heard the NIV etc difference is in losing salvation, that even Calvinists disagree with because of election/elected, ithink.
 

Dai3234

Senior Member
Sep 6, 2016
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You’ll always read quicker in a language format that you more frequently speak. Having a more modern language structure, that is spoken every day, allows for words to be processed quicker. Although I’m sure many hardcore KJV guys have familiarized themselves with the format to the extent that it is no longer an issue for them.
Don't condescend, or you might as well get lost as you obviously didn't read that I also read ESV, NIV, NKJV, AMP, GIDEONS, WEB, but am looking for an MKJV/KJV21 that's not over seas ££££
 

notbythesword

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2015
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Don't condescend, or you might as well get lost as you obviously didn't read that I also read ESV, NIV, NKJV, AMP, GIDEONS, WEB, but am looking for an MKJV/KJV21 that's not over seas ££££

I'm not. You asked. By the way, the AMP translation is actually less accurate than the ESV as a word for word. The AMP adds many words in addition to the original text to “amplify” the message.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Long before I ever... I went to school with kids that did all sort of bad stuff that were "good baptists" who webt to church regularly and thought they were saved in spite of living in open sin and they said that once someone gets saved it matters not what they do cause... they gonna go to Heaven anyway.
If the above incident is even true, those would be called hypocrites, not saved people who became lost.

Before I knew anything about God, I knew that was bogus!
Actually, you're still quite confused about the whole thing and what it meant.
 

Dai3234

Senior Member
Sep 6, 2016
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Let's see, you are judging and condemning me for believing in the Bible? When I totally and absolutely believe every word, from the day I was saved over 37 years ago?

I was reading a modern Catholic Bible when I got saved (NAB). I loved it, because sinner and unsaved person that I was, I could understand the English. I read it after I was saved, and even it didn't have anything wrong, except the wrong footnotes, which is why I went to NASB, finally, which was a more wooden translation, although it certainly didn't hurt me reading it for 25 years before I went to seminary. (Yes, I studied the Bible daily before I went to seminary!)

I read the Greek, because I do want to know and understand the Bible more. But, I still read in my heart language, which is modern English, because that is the language God speaks to me. Although occasionally, God has spoken to me of with a Scripture in Greek, then confirmed it in English that same day! Last year, it was Matt 6. We were translating it in Greek, and I was reading it in my HCSB- plus, a book I was reading on the Sermon on the Mount was in the same passage. The Holy Spirit is amazing that way.

The fact is, we are imperfect beings. Only Jesus is perfect. The original autographs were perfect, but God allowed them to become lost till ?? Or forever! So all we have are copies.

God did NOT reach down in the 16th century and suddenly take 7 corrupt manuscripts and make a perfect translation, especially not with a King who had his own ideas about what the Bible should say. We have some terrible Bible traditions coming directly from the mouth of King James, not the Bible.

There is no perfect version. But there is a perfect God and Holy Spirit, who opens up the Word of God, in any language, and any non-cultic translation, and speaks to us of salvation and sanctification. I follow Jesus, not a Bible.

But I do find it funny the way you, John, and Dai, the OP, are two timing me on this education thing.

Dai says I am not educated enough, because I will not watch his silly youtube video. John says I am too educated, and I don't believe in the Word of God!

Which is it, gentlemen? Am I too educated, or not educated enough?

Am I following Jesus with all my strength, soul, mind and strength on the basis of what God has shown me in his Word, over 37 years, in 4 languages, or has God cast me aside because I reject that the KJV is not the ONLY Bible?

John and Dai, and any others, feel free to read the KJV, if you think it gives you comfort and nurture. I would never try and tear a favourite Bible translation away from someone's heart! But, I think I will continue to love and serve God, using Greek, English and Hebrew, in various translations. God has always met me in his Word, and I know he will continue to meet me!
I thought it was just an issue of trying to ask what your favourite Bible is and why. And if you'd watched the video. All of you are the ones who went on lengthy rants dragging me into KJV battles. Did you or any even answer the question? I can't remember as not many have put the capital letters after their post. As asked at the beginning.
 

Dai3234

Senior Member
Sep 6, 2016
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I'm not. You asked. By the way, the AMP translation is actually less accurate than the ESV as a word for word. The AMP adds many words in addition to the original text to “amplify” the message.
Yes but amplify is supposed to mean the same meaning, with more depth, not translation interpretation going in a different direction than most Bible readers know it shouldn't go in. So it should be closer to NIV etc.