KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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The opposite of pure is corrupt, I don't say there evil, I read the NIV for years as a saved person, but there are critical errors in the newer translations. The errors are severe enough to miss key doctrines like the gospel was preached in the old testament which leads to a ton of false doctrines.
I disagree strongly. There are no key doctrines left out of the NIV at all. Try conning someone who hasn't been using that translation for years, every allegation brought against the NIV since the beginning of this thread has been refuted and proved false. It's ridiculous to continue rehashing these same, tired, dead-end accusations.
 
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Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
 
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I disagree strongly. There are no key doctrines left out of the NIV at all. Try conning someone who hasn't been using that translation for years, every allegation brought against the NIV since the beginning of this thread has been refuted and proved false. It's ridiculous to continue rehashing these same, tired, dead-end accusations.
Read my reply to g and p and tell me no important doctrines have been influenced by the NIV.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

"Therefore we must be wary that, while the promise of entering his rest remains open, none of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For we had good news proclaimed to us just as they did. But the message they heard did them no good, since they did not join in with those who heard it in faith." Hebrews 4:1-2 NET

Seriously, this says exactly what the KJV says, except that it makes more sense,and it is easier to understand.

"Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
[FONT=&quot]2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed" Hebrews 4:1-2 NIV[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

You know, sometimes I have to wonder, when people do
n't even know how to put a Bible address after the verse they have quoted. And that it means the same thing! And just for reference:

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Φοβηθῶμεν οὖν μήποτε καταλειπομένης ἐπαγγελίας εἰσελθεῖν εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσιν αὐτοῦ δοκῇ τις ἐξ ὑμῶν ὑστερηκέναι·[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 καὶ γάρ ἐσμεν εὐηγγελισμένοι καθάπερ κἀκεῖνοι, ἀλλ’ οὐκ ὠφέλησεν ὁ λόγος τῆς ἀκοῆς ἐκείνους, μὴ συγκεκερασμένους τῇ πίστει τοῖς ἀκούσασιν." Hebre[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]ws 4:1-2 SBL Greek[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Let's start with the first word of this passage. In Greek, true, it is the Aorist subjective passive, 1st person plural verb "to fear." However, [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]οὖν [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]is a pro-positive connector, which like de, only appears second in Greek, but should be translated first in English.

So from the get-go, the KJV translation is off. Therefore, all the versions I looked at do start the sentence with "therefore. Perhaps 400 years ago, the Bible translators didn't understand the significance of a pro-positive word, and translated the best they could, given their limited understanding?

As for the second half of verse 2, I can't make hide nor hair out of what it says, the Greek is easier, and of course, the modern verses do explain it, although NET is certainly a better translation.
[/FONT]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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"Therefore we must be wary that, while the promise of entering his rest remains open, none of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For we had good news proclaimed to us just as they did. But the message they heard did them no good, since they did not join in with those who heard it in faith." Hebrews 4:1-2 NET

Seriously, this says exactly what the KJV says, except that it makes more sense,and it is easier to understand.

"Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed" Hebrews 4:1-2 NIV

You know, sometimes I have to wonder, when people do
n't even know how to put a Bible address after the verse they have quoted. And that it means the same thing! And just for reference:

"Φοβηθῶμεν οὖν μήποτε καταλειπομένης ἐπαγγελίας εἰσελθεῖν εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσιν αὐτοῦ δοκῇ τις ἐξ ὑμῶν ὑστερηκέναι·2 καὶ γάρ ἐσμεν εὐηγγελισμένοι καθάπερ κἀκεῖνοι, ἀλλ’ οὐκ ὠφέλησεν ὁ λόγος τῆς ἀκοῆς ἐκείνους, μὴ συγκεκερασμένους τῇ πίστει τοῖς ἀκούσασιν." Hebrews 4:1-2 SBL Greek

Let's start with the first word of this passage. In Greek, true, it is the Aorist subjective passive, 1st person plural verb "to fear." However, οὖν is a pro-positive connector, which like de, only appears second in Greek, but should be translated first in English.

So from the get-go, the KJV translation is off. Therefore, all the versions I looked at do start the sentence with "therefore. Perhaps 400 years ago, the Bible translators didn't understand the significance of a pro-positive word, and translated the best they could, given their limited understanding?

As for the second half of verse 2, I can't make hide nor hair out of what it says, the Greek is easier, and of course, the modern verses do explain it, although NET is certainly a better translation.
The only thing different between the KJV and all the others is the use of the word gospel.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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The only thing different between the KJV and all the others is the use of the word gospel.
Do you understand the meaning of the word "gospel"?
It just means good news!
And it comes from this word in Greek:
εὐαγγελίζω, that just means, to bring good news or glad tidings, to preach good news.

Since Angela responded to the first objection that you had and cleared that one up, NEXT...
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Do you understand the meaning of the word "gospel"?
It just means good news!
And it comes from this word in Greek:
εὐαγγελίζω, that just means, to bring good news or glad tidings, to preach good news.

Since Angela responded to the first objection that you had and cleared that one up, NEXT...
Angela didn’t clear up anything lol. What’s the good news that was preached to us and to the Old Testament folks?
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Angela didn’t clear up anything lol. What’s the good news that was preached to us and to the Old Testament folks?
Obviously this is the question but you will need to tell us what you think it is - and what the problem is with other translations in this regard.

The onus is on you to provide evidence not ask questions...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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16, you are totally ignorant - just give it up man:

Gospel = good news:

Origin

Old English gōdspel, from gōd 'good' + spel 'news', a story’ (see spell), translating ecclesiastical Latin bona annuntiatio or bonus nuntius, used to gloss ecclesiastical Latin evangelium, from Greek euangelion ‘good news’ (see evangel); after the vowel was shortened in Old English, the first syllable was mistaken for god ‘God’.


 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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God's word isn't bound by language period. The originals are worthless to us because the meanings of the Greek and Hebrew words have changed over the years.
Your argument goes also against the KJV.

The KJV is useless, because English words have changed over the years.


So I am not sure why do you use such argument, its a double edged sword.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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OK I will agree that some of the KJV people don't have an argument whatsoever but the same is true of the other side. When real issues are raised people on your side just leave.
I have the opposite experience.

KJV only leave or stop responding to the question.

For example, when I ask them "do you use 1611 or 1769", because they know where this leads.

Or you also stopped talking about how can the KJV be inspired when the translators said it is not and felt no special inspiration during writing.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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I have the opposite experience.

KJV only leave or stop responding to the question.

For example, when I ask them "do you use 1611 or 1769", because they know where this leads.

Or you also stopped talking about how can the KJV be inspired when the translators said it is not and felt no special inspiration during writing.
t...,

I use the 1611 edition.

Not everyone...what does your question lead too?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Angela didn’t clear up anything lol. What’s the good news that was preached to us and to the Old Testament folks?
What is it you don't see? The gospel message was revealed in the OT. It was revealed to Abraham and most (if not all) the prophets. It's in the Passover. It's woven like a tapestry throughout. That subject could have a thread of it's own.
If the accusation is that the NIV changes that message it's just another steaming pile of bull manure. If anything, it's highlighted even better than in the KJV.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Guys graceAndPeace is the one who said the gospel wasn't preached in the old testament, not me.
 
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What is it you don't see? The gospel message was revealed in the OT. It was revealed to Abraham and most (if not all) the prophets. It's in the Passover. It's woven like a tapestry throughout. That subject could have a thread of it's own.
If the accusation is that the NIV changes that message it's just another steaming pile of bull manure. If anything, it's highlighted even better than in the KJV.
You haven't been reading the thread, the message is not that the NIV changed the message, it's that the gospel was preached to the church in the old testament.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Your argument goes also against the KJV.

The KJV is useless, because English words have changed over the years.


So I am not sure why do you use such argument, its a double edged sword.
I missed this - thanks for commenting.
Unbelievably stupid statement given how English has changed over several hundred years as well...