Legalism empowers DEMONS in your life!

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Feb 5, 2015
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And this is also the reason why you would never understand the gospel. You are under the impression Yeshua couldn't keep the law to the letter. It all make sense to me now...
If you understood the Gospel, you wouldn't have to deflect from answering my question by casting aspersions on me. You would boldly answer my question and give the correct explanation. But as you seem unable to do it..........
 
Feb 5, 2015
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Michael, I will give the evening to research and reflect. I am going home.
Jesus said, the more important matters of the law were, justice, mercy and faithfulness,(matt23:23) things the Pharisees neglected. Why did they feel they could neglect them? Because there was no literal commandment that said:

Thou shalt be just
Thou shalt be merciful
Thou shalt be faithful

The Pharisees only knew the literal letter, not the heart of the message

Jesus invoked a higher point of the law where the woman caught in adultery was concerned. He showed her mercy.
Sadly, many today appear strung up on the literal letter, rather than the heart of the message

The letter kills, but the spirit gives life
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Jesus said, the more important matters of the law were, justice, mercy and faithfulness,(matt23:23) things the Pharisees neglected. Why did they feel they could neglect them? Because there was no literal commandment that said:

Thou shalt be just
Thou shalt be merciful
Thou shalt be faithful

The Pharisees only knew the literal letter, not the heart of the message

Jesus invoked a higher point of the law where the woman caught in adultery was concerned. He showed her mercy.
Sadly, many today appear strung up on the literal letter, rather than the heart of the message

The letter kills, but the spirit gives life
And what did Christ say about this?

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What does "and not to leave the other undone." tell us here?
 
Feb 5, 2015
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And what did Christ say about this?

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What does "and not to leave the other undone." tell us here?
As Jesus once said

As you have not answered my question(in your case, lots of them) I will not answer yours. Though it would not be hard to do so
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Well, I have answered every question put to me (that I am aware of) but the problem is the answers are not what you want to hear, so that is OK with my. Frankly, after reading your posts, there is nothing in what you say that I really want to hear.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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And what did Christ say about this?

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What does "and not to leave the other undone." tell us here?
not all (of us), but some, by revelation in grace, it tells us that the lake of fire is growing...... to hold more ...

because "they would not" (like Jerusalem "would not" be gathered to Jesus; so the lawless today..... )
 
Sep 6, 2014
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Adhering to the law of Moses carnally and saying you obey the law of Moses out of gratitude to God is just blind ignorance of the truth and the power of the Holy Spirit. Those who endorse the law that works as a basic schoolmaster to bring us to repentance and into the faith of Christ are unaware of the law's purpose and do not understand that by saying they serve the law through mental obedience, that they are a servant to the law of Moses and obligated to the whole law.The scriptures validate this and use circumcision as an example of break one break them all. A simple thing to understand however this is not babies milk it's quite meaty. When a man looks to the law of Moses mentally as a indicator of his righteousness....... that man has the faith of a Pharisee and denies Christ by denying the power of His Spirit in us to keep us from transgression of His laws. The just will live by faith. If you think someone with the faith of Christ and His Spirit within them is promoting sin by teaching adherence to the Spirit through faith rather than adherence to the law of Moses and tradition through mental accent, you have been blinded and can not see the simplicity of Christ and have missed the understanding of the whole New Testament. The law came from Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Paul speaks of liberty through the Holy Spirit and not bondage to carnal laws. You who make your boast in the law of Moses are no different than all the murderers of the prophets and no different then those who persecuted the Apostles and disciples, who even murdered our Savior. That is what you have in common with them, opposed to the Spirit of grace and truth while attempting to justify yourself through the works of law. May God open the eyes of your heart to see the simplicity of Christ as He brings us all into all truth.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of (legal dogma) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having disarmed principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Our battle against the demonic realm is a spiritual battle, fought with spiritual laws that we have been equipped by the Holy Spirit of God. Legalism is the flesh trying to attain spiritual truths. Legalism only keeps a believer bound and subject to the flesh. Nothing pleases the devil more than legalism! Almost every attack against the spiritual gospel in the New Testament was an attempt by the devil to bring legalism into the church, and by that, giving him power over the spiritual children of God by making them subject to their own flesh, through legalism.
LORD JESUS CHRIST brought 'legalism' of 'Grace' and 'Truth' of the Kingdom of GOD, according to the New testament to all believers who 'believe' and have been 'redeemed' and 'saved', what do you say about that?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Jesus said, the more important matters of the law were, justice, mercy and faithfulness,(matt23:23) things the Pharisees neglected. Why did they feel they could neglect them? Because there was no literal commandment that said:

Thou shalt be just
Thou shalt be merciful
Thou shalt be faithful

The Pharisees only knew the literal letter, not the heart of the message

Jesus invoked a higher point of the law where the woman caught in adultery was concerned. He showed her mercy.
Sadly, many today appear strung up on the literal letter, rather than the heart of the message

The letter kills, but the spirit gives life

BUT, Obedience as a way to manifest our Love for GOD, is NOT what it means by "the Letter kills".

1 John 5:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
 
Dec 26, 2014
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a son joyously imitates his own father and rejoices in being able to do as he does...... he honors his father.

a bad son honors his own father also --- but that's a different father !!!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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No I have a good grasp on it..."the letter kills but the spirit gives life" we serve God in the Newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
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I REPEAT:

BUT, Obedience as a way to manifest our Love for GOD, is NOT what it means by "the Letter kills".

1 John 5:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.

1 John 5:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

I see you ALSO have a Twisted Understanding of what "the Letter kills" means. Once again, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH: Obeying GOD's Old Testament Commandments to demonstrate that OUR LOVE FOR GOD is Genuine. "The Letter kills" only refers to God's condemnation of those who think they can earn their SALVATION by keeping HIS Commandments. Why does that IDEA bring condemnation from GOD? Because NO ONE in this mortal body with a sin nature can be Perfect at keeping HIS commandments, which results in making them guilty of breaking ALL OF GOD'S LAW.

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
C. Love and the Obedience It Produces (5:1b-3)

5:1b If we have been truly born of God, then we will love Him. And not only so, we will love His children as well. It is good to notice here that we are to love all believers, and not just those of a certain earthly communion or fellowship.
5:2, 3 The fourth result of faith is obedience to God's commandments. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. Those who are truly saved will be characterized by a desire to do the will of God. Our love for God is expressed in willing obedience to His commands. The Lord Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
When John says that His commandments are not burdensome, he does not mean that they are not difficult, but rather that they are the very things which born again people love to do. When you tell a mother to take good care of her baby, you are only telling her what she loves to do. The commandments of the Lord are the things which are best for us, and the things in which our new nature takes a wholehearted delight.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
Whether or not a believer exhibits an admirable life, he should be an object of his fellow Christian's love. This love does not spring from something lovable in the person himself, but from his paternity, since everyone who loves the Father loves His child as well. Moreover, love for God's children is not mere sentiment or verbal expression (cf. 3:18), but is inseparable from loving God and obeying His commands (5:2; cf. 2:3; 3:22, 24; 5:3).If a further question is asked about what it means to love... God, the answer is, to obey His commands. Thus the apostle, by this series of statements, reduces love for God and one's fellow Christians to its fundamental character. A person who obeys God's commands is doing what is right, both toward God and toward his fellow believers and is thus loving both God and them. But it must be remembered that this includes the willingness to sacrifice for one's brother (cf. 3:16-17).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.


Obedience to the Word


By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. (5:2-3)

The opening statement of verse 2, by this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, is the corollary to the truth John expressed in verse 1. Just as it is impossible to love God without loving His children, so also is it impossible to truly love His children apart from loving Him. Those twin priorities of loving God and other Christians mark all who have been born again.

The proof of genuine faith is sustained and loving obedience; it is to love God and observe His commandments. Genuine saving faith produces love, which results in obedience. Those who believe God is who Scripture reveals Him to be will respond in love, praise, and adoration. Because He is the supreme object of their affections, they will long to obey Him. Observe translates a present tense form of the verb poieō,which has the connotation of "to accomplish," "to carry out," or "to practice." The present tense indicates that believers' obedience is to be continuous. It will always be the direction, though not the perfection, of their lives. A different word, a form of the verb tēreō,is translated keep in verse 3. It has the connotation of keeping watch over, guarding, or preserving. One who truly loves God will view His commandments as a precious treasure, to be guarded at all costs (2 Tim. 1:14). Poieōrefers to action, tēreōto the heart attitude that prompts obedience.

The principle that those who truly love God will obey Him permeates Scripture. In Deuteronomy 13:4 Moses commanded Israel, "You shall follow the Lord your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. "Samuel rebuked Saul's disobedience by reminding him that "to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams" (1 Sam. 15:22). Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, wrote, "The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person" (Eccl. 12:13). God commanded Israel through the prophet Jeremiah, "Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you will be My people; and you will walk in all the way which I command you, that it may be well with you" (Jer. 7:23).

Obedience was also a foundational theme in the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ. In Matthew 12:50 He said, "Whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother." He pronounced "blessed... those who hear the word of God and observe it" (Luke 11:28). In John 8:31 He challenged those who professed faith in Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine." To His disciples in the upper room He stated plainly, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15), and He repeated that truth several times during that discourse:

He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him. (14:21)
If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word... He who does not love Me does not keep My words. (14:23-24)
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. (15:10)
You are My friends if you do what I command you. (15:14)


The apostles also taught that obedience is an essential mark of the redeemed:

And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him. (Acts 5:32)
Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake. (Rom. 1:5)
For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed. (Rom. 15:18)
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith. (Rom. 16:25-26)
And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation. (Heb. 5:9)
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. (1 Peter 1:1-2)
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance. (1 Peter 1:14)
Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart. (1 Peter 1:22)


The obedience that characterizes a true child of God is not external, ritualistic, legalistic compliance. Nor is it unwilling, partial, inconsistent, or grudging. Loving obedience is from the heart (Deut. 11:13; 30:2, 10; Rom. 6:17), willing (Ex. 25:2; 1 Peter 5:2; cf. Lev. 26:21), total (Deut. 27:26; Gal. 3:10; James 2:10), constant (Phil. 2:12), and joyful (Ps. 119:54; cf. 2 Cor. 9:7).

Those who truly obey God do not find His commandments... burdensome. In Matthew 11:28-30 Jesus invited weary sinners, "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." In Psalm 119, the psalmist repeatedly expressed his delight in God's law:
I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, as much as in all riches, (v. 14)
I shall delight in Your statutes; I shall not forget Your word. (v. 16) Your testimonies also are my delight; they are my counselors, (v. 24) O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. (v. 97)
How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth! (v. 103)

Those who love God will obey His law, because they want to honor His holy nature. They do so not out of dread, but out of loving adoration.

MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – 1-3 John.
 
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sparty-g

Guest
What was the punishment for committing adultery under the old covenant?

Did Jesus follow the letter of the law concerning the woman caught in adultery?
I can attempt to provide a possible understanding that shows He operated within the boundaries of the Law in this case. It's certainly a debatable understanding, but please consider...

The first thing to recognize is the Torah (Law) scholars and Pharisees were attempting to trap the Messiah, as explained in v.6. They essentially give Him two options:


(A) Would He advocate enforcing the punishment of the Law, thus giving them ground to accuse Him before the Romans? (The Romans had taken away the power of corporal punishment from the Sanhedrin.) This could likely also make Him very unpopular with the crowds.


Or...


(B) Would He demonstrate mercy, thus putting aside the punishment of the Law and giving them legal ground to accuse Him as being a Law-breaker who sanctions adultery?


The previous confrontations with the Torah (Law) scholars and Pharisees were on debatable issues (healing on the Sabbath, picking and eating grain on the Sabbath, eating with unwashed hands, etc.) since the Law did not address them directly. But on the issue in this passage, the Law is clear: anyone convicted of adultery was to be put to death, and stoned specifically if the woman was betrothed at the time (cf., Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22).


I believe the Messiah takes a very interesting approach to dealing with the trap. Instead of choosing one of the two options with which they intend to trap Him, He chooses a third option whereby He is able to demonstrate both Law-abidance and mercy. The Law sets up a legal process to deal with these types of charges: a trial is to be carried out in a Torah court of Law, and two or three witnesses are required to convict someone of a charge (cf., Deut. 19:15). In some cases, the witnesses are to be the first ones to throw the stones, then followed by the rest of the people (Deut. 17:6-7).


Some readers of this passage may be quick to say that the Messiah dismisses the Law here, thus choosing option B, but that would have given the Torah (Law) scholars and Pharisees legal ground to accuse Him. Instead, through His action of writing on the ground and what He says to the crowd, He disqualifies the witnesses. This is different from simply dismissing the Law in favor of mercy. Instead, the punishment of the Law is unable to be carried out in this particular instance because its legal requirements are not met. Without witnesses, there can be no trial or conviction and, in that case, the Law says that the woman must go free. Thus, the Messiah upheld the Law while simultaneously demonstrating mercy, all within the boundaries of the Law itself.



I believe this to be especially important because, in doing so, He demonstrates both qualities of the Father: righteous in His judgments, and compassionate in His mercies. There is also a parallel to what the Father accomplished through the Messiah's atoning sacrifice: atonement is not achieved by dismissing the Law and its commands, but instead by satisfying its legal demands through the Messiah, and thus allowing mercy (aka, grace) to be shown to His children. The Messiah doesn't eliminate the legal need for a death to pay the wage of sin; He takes on the full measure of the Law's punishment, pays the wage Himself and dies the death we deserve as sinners. Like the woman in the story, He sets us free from condemnation and then, like the woman in the story, tells us, "Go, and sin no more."
 
Dec 26, 2014
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i.e. a child imitates his father. a child walking in light does what yahshua hamashiach did/does on earth.

understandably, it is truly so rare that most people never see this or/and they don't value this enough to ask abba elohim to help them. and they don't trust yahweh sovereign creator enough to listen to him to

do what he says to do to be saved from sin and from hasatan and from the power of the world and from the power of death, let alone to ever see heaven, let let alone to ever ever enter the kingdom of heaven.....
 
Feb 5, 2015
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Well, I have answered every question put to me (that I am aware of) but the problem is the answers are not what you want to hear, so that is OK with my. Frankly, after reading your posts, there is nothing in what you say that I really want to hear.
You insist the literal commandments are obeyed don't you?

hmmm.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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did yahweh ever, ever, ever tell anyone to obey NON_LITERAL commandments??!! I don't think so!

hmmm mmm mmm ... ... ...
 
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sparty-g

Guest
On literal commands being obeyed, that's certainly how they were received and intended to be carried out at the time of their revelation. Fast forward to Messiah, He demonstrates how walking in faith and love adds a much needed dimension to God's will which was expressed in the commands. "Do not commit adultery" is a command and adultery is a sin, and He says looking at a woman to lust after her is committing adultery in the heart. It's additive, not replacing -- He says do not commit physical adultery or adultery in the heart. There is certainly no implication that the deeper meaning replaces the literal meaning. I believe He is attempting to perfect our faith, which is essentially how we live out God's will for us. We're still dead if we can keep from committing physical adultery but are burning in our hearts with lust. The outside of the cup is clean but the inside is filthy, so to speak. Taking care of the internal burning lust will also result in a literal keeping of the command: no physical adultery will be committed. There is no way to truly keep the deeper meaning without keeping the literal. Is sex outside of marriage permitted if there is somehow no internal lust involved? No way! Or is that even possible? Any physical act like that is symptomatic of a much deeper spiritual problem. Both need to be purified.
 
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sparty-g

Guest
In fact, to amend what I said, maybe "additive" isn't even the right word. It might best be explained as "revelatory." Meaning that the Messiah is revealing the full meaning of the command, "Do not commit adultery." It's not just limited to physical acts, as one might incorrectly assume, but also includes adultery in the heart. I believe this is part of what the Messiah meant when He said he came to "fulfill" the Law: He came to reveal it's full meaning or complete our understanding of it.

"The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law and make it honorable" -- Isaiah 42:21 (KJV)
 
Dec 26, 2014
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you might even say it the way Yahweh says it, as Yahshua reveals to His little children - behold, I give you a new heart, that doesn't burn with lust, that's not greedy, that's not selfish....

if you are in Me, if you abide in Me, you have a generous eye and your body is full of light. if not,
if you have a stingy eye, your eye is in darkness and your whole body is dark.

with a new heart, with a renewed mind, you love to do what is good and right before Yahweh.

if you desire to sin, and keep sinning, you are not in Me and My Word is not in you.