Let me ask you something.
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It’s a little more than that. Heaven is what our lives become when we repent of our sin. Jesus told us that here:
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
In other words, the Lord withholds no blessings from us when we repent of our sin.
That doesn't mean there isn't more to learn. That doesn't mean there aren't challenges ahead. It just means that if we repent of our sin, what have we to fear?
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
In other words, the Lord withholds no blessings from us when we repent of our sin.
That doesn't mean there isn't more to learn. That doesn't mean there aren't challenges ahead. It just means that if we repent of our sin, what have we to fear?
C
I didn't read past OP, that being said, what saves a person's soul? We are saved by believing the gospel of our salvation. Does John Doe believe the gospel? If so, then John Doe has precious treasure in an earthen vessel. What we do from that point on is a matter of "work out your own salvation"
When I initially read OP, I thought of Apollos and the fact that he was shown a "more excellent way", by fellow christians. Not that we have dominion over your faith, but that we are helpers of your joy.
Of course, we have different ways of thinking of things, so one doesn't always completely understand what the other is trying to say. Oh, and I usually don't read past the first OP, unless someone quotes me, in which case I read that post, unless it is long. (I don't have the patience to read long posts. I'm too old.)
But it’s hard for me to find anything here that I disagree with, except I would point out that it is the Lord that saves us. I like your reference to “work out your own salvation.” (I assume you are quoting Paul.)
But it’s hard for me to find anything here that I disagree with, except I would point out that it is the Lord that saves us. I like your reference to “work out your own salvation.” (I assume you are quoting Paul.)
I have no problem with the concept that we can experience heaven; it's built around God and as God works in us, so are we. I like the emphasis on experiencing the fullness of God's presence and sufficiency now. It's necessary to handle life. But none of that requires taking a hard stance against heaven being a real future destination, if that's what happened. It's possible to hold it as a present experience, and as a future destination, at the same time. Walking with God is heavenly.
P
Sounds that way to me also.
Hardly. Repentance simply brings us hope of the promise. We must leave this world to possess it. A man of flesh will NEVER be in heaven. A state of mental or emotional rapture is just that, rapture, not heaven.
You can't believe Christ is here. We must go there to be with Him.
Hardly. Repentance simply brings us hope of the promise. We must leave this world to possess it. A man of flesh will NEVER be in heaven. A state of mental or emotional rapture is just that, rapture, not heaven.
You can't believe Christ is here. We must go there to be with Him.
P
You need to learn what words mean and you should read the bible.
The resurrection isn't the destination. It is being raised from our fleshly bodies into our spiritual bodies so that we can make the journey to our destination.
Words mean something, friend, and you don't seem to grasp that you can't just plug your own definition into any old word that you want.
Merriam-Webster has an online dictionary available, and since you are on a computer it is at your disposal. Employ it.
The resurrection isn't the destination. It is being raised from our fleshly bodies into our spiritual bodies so that we can make the journey to our destination.
Words mean something, friend, and you don't seem to grasp that you can't just plug your own definition into any old word that you want.
Merriam-Webster has an online dictionary available, and since you are on a computer it is at your disposal. Employ it.
Merriam-Webster is secular a publication. There are some concepts that can't be captured in secular publications. Heaven is what happens to your life after you repent of your sin (Matt 4:17). The only word in the Bible that I know that can be attached to the place we go after we die is "resurrection," so that is that word I use.
Next step for John on this way, KJV. Hebrews6;1, Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christs, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.; Of course, John got the Holly Spirit by the hearing of faith, KJV.Galatians3;5, He therefore that ministereth to you in the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?;
In 2 Corinthians 13:5, the apostle Paul asks the Corinthian believers a question: “Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you?” We might find this phrase, “Jesus Christ is in you” surprising, or perhaps we just read over it without thinking too much about its significance. But what does this phrase mean? And what is its importance for our Christian lives today?
In saying, “Jesus Christ is in you,” Paul wasn’t speaking poetically or metaphorically. He truly meant that Jesus Christ is literally, practically dwelling within the believers. Many other verses in the Word of God confirm the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ actually dwells in His believers.
We too, like the Corinthians, need to realize this fact about ourselves. Christ is not merely outside of us, a Helper in our time of need, but He dwells in us, living in and with us all the time.
1. “But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness.”—Romans 8:10
We human beings were created by God with a body on the outside and a soul and spirit on the inside. Our spirit is our deepest part, created to contact and receive the Spirit of God. When we received Jesus as our Savior, He cleansed us of our sins and He came into our spirit as life. Thus, because Christ is in us, our “spirit is life because of righteousness.”
2. “Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us.”—2 Corinthians 4:6-7
The apostle Paul describes the believers as earthen vessels that contain “this treasure.” What is this treasure? It is Jesus Christ, in whose face we see the glory of God. Christ lives in us earthen vessels as a precious treasure, revealing to us the glory of God from within.
3. “But when it pleased God…to reveal His Son in me.”—Galatians 1:15-16
We might think this verse should read, “It pleased God…to reveal His Son to me.” But in the original language of the New Testament, Greek, the verse reads “to reveal His Son in me.” God’s plan is to reveal His Son in us, from within, rather than to us, from without. Or, to put it another way, God reveals Christ to us from within us. To those who have Christ in us, God is pleased to reveal in us more of the wonderful Person of Christ.
4. “I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me.”—Galatians 2:20
Here, Paul did not say “I live in a Christ-like way,” or, “I glorify Christ through my behavior.” No, he said, “Christ…lives in me,” clearly telling us that Christ lives in His believers. The Christian life is not a matter of behaving like Christ, but of allowing Christ Himself to live in and through us.
5. “My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you.”—Galatians 4:19
Paul viewed the believers in Galatia as his spiritual children. He had labored to help them receive Christ at their salvation, and in this verse, he continues to labor on them so that the Christ they received would be fully formed in them. Christ lives in us from the time we are saved, but He wants to be formed in us in a definite way. Day by day, we need to give Him the opportunity to be formed in us. As we do, Christ will be able to express Himself more fully through us in our daily life.
6. “That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.”—Ephesians 3:17
When we believed into Christ, He came to live in our spirit, the deepest part of our being. But Christ also wants to make His home in the rest of our inward being: our hearts and our souls. By living in our spirit, Christ is the new source of our new life. But our soul—our mind, emotion, and will—can still choose to ignore Him as our new source and go on just as before. In this case, Christ is in us, but He’s limited in us, kept only in our spirit. So He cannot be expressed through us very much. The Lord Jesus wants to make His home not only in our spirit, but also in all the parts of our soul.
7. “Christ in you, the hope of glory.”—Colossians 1:27
This verse shows that Christ is in us in a particular way: as our hope of glory. When we believed in Him, Christ came to live in our spirit. Now He is making His home in our hearts. In the future, when He returns, He will even spread to our body outwardly so that God’s glory can shine through us in a full way. The Christ who lives in us is our hope of such glory.
8. “When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed.”—2 Thessalonians 1:10
Christ’s second coming will surely be a marvel. But according to this verse, the most marvelous thing will not be the outward display of His coming; it will be His glory revealed from within His believers. The Christ in us, who lives in us and is being formed in us, will be revealed from within us, and even our bodies will be transformed to match Him.
In saying, “Jesus Christ is in you,” Paul wasn’t speaking poetically or metaphorically. He truly meant that Jesus Christ is literally, practically dwelling within the believers. Many other verses in the Word of God confirm the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ actually dwells in His believers.
We too, like the Corinthians, need to realize this fact about ourselves. Christ is not merely outside of us, a Helper in our time of need, but He dwells in us, living in and with us all the time.
1. “But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness.”—Romans 8:10
We human beings were created by God with a body on the outside and a soul and spirit on the inside. Our spirit is our deepest part, created to contact and receive the Spirit of God. When we received Jesus as our Savior, He cleansed us of our sins and He came into our spirit as life. Thus, because Christ is in us, our “spirit is life because of righteousness.”
2. “Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us.”—2 Corinthians 4:6-7
The apostle Paul describes the believers as earthen vessels that contain “this treasure.” What is this treasure? It is Jesus Christ, in whose face we see the glory of God. Christ lives in us earthen vessels as a precious treasure, revealing to us the glory of God from within.
3. “But when it pleased God…to reveal His Son in me.”—Galatians 1:15-16
We might think this verse should read, “It pleased God…to reveal His Son to me.” But in the original language of the New Testament, Greek, the verse reads “to reveal His Son in me.” God’s plan is to reveal His Son in us, from within, rather than to us, from without. Or, to put it another way, God reveals Christ to us from within us. To those who have Christ in us, God is pleased to reveal in us more of the wonderful Person of Christ.
4. “I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me.”—Galatians 2:20
Here, Paul did not say “I live in a Christ-like way,” or, “I glorify Christ through my behavior.” No, he said, “Christ…lives in me,” clearly telling us that Christ lives in His believers. The Christian life is not a matter of behaving like Christ, but of allowing Christ Himself to live in and through us.
5. “My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you.”—Galatians 4:19
Paul viewed the believers in Galatia as his spiritual children. He had labored to help them receive Christ at their salvation, and in this verse, he continues to labor on them so that the Christ they received would be fully formed in them. Christ lives in us from the time we are saved, but He wants to be formed in us in a definite way. Day by day, we need to give Him the opportunity to be formed in us. As we do, Christ will be able to express Himself more fully through us in our daily life.
6. “That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.”—Ephesians 3:17
When we believed into Christ, He came to live in our spirit, the deepest part of our being. But Christ also wants to make His home in the rest of our inward being: our hearts and our souls. By living in our spirit, Christ is the new source of our new life. But our soul—our mind, emotion, and will—can still choose to ignore Him as our new source and go on just as before. In this case, Christ is in us, but He’s limited in us, kept only in our spirit. So He cannot be expressed through us very much. The Lord Jesus wants to make His home not only in our spirit, but also in all the parts of our soul.
7. “Christ in you, the hope of glory.”—Colossians 1:27
This verse shows that Christ is in us in a particular way: as our hope of glory. When we believed in Him, Christ came to live in our spirit. Now He is making His home in our hearts. In the future, when He returns, He will even spread to our body outwardly so that God’s glory can shine through us in a full way. The Christ who lives in us is our hope of such glory.
8. “When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed.”—2 Thessalonians 1:10
Christ’s second coming will surely be a marvel. But according to this verse, the most marvelous thing will not be the outward display of His coming; it will be His glory revealed from within His believers. The Christ in us, who lives in us and is being formed in us, will be revealed from within us, and even our bodies will be transformed to match Him.
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