lets nut this Sabbath thing out one point at a time. Point 2

[john832]

No, grace and the law of Moses are not mutually inclusive. One precludes the other. You simply don't know the nature of law. The law of Moses condemns unrighteouseness. You think the law is your friend because you think you are righteous.

How about the Laws that Jesus Christ gave to Moses?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

And you and I both know the word for Law here is Torah.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Christ inspired David (a man after God's own heart) to have a different view of the Law than you have.

And as I said (because Paul said it) grace is not lawless because it is through faith, which is the ultimate law.

Well you are right about the first part, Grace is not Lawlessness. Grace is the undeserved, unearned pardon for breaking the Law. If that Law was no longer in effect, then why do I need a Savior to die for breaking that Law?

This is getting too far afield of the OP's point. done and done.

 

[Isdaniel]

God rested on the seventh day from all his work Genesis 2:3 But there was no mention of the sabbath being unto the Lord until it was mention in the law of Moses, Exodus 16:23. The Sabbath was given to those under the law, Exodus 16:23-30. The seven day was the Sabbath, Exodus 16:26. When Christ died the first day of the week was given to remember the Lord with breaking of bread, Acts 20:7.

I hope this will help!

[h=3]John 7:19-23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

 

[john832]

According to the 10 commandments given to Moses which day of the week is the Sabbath and why?

Sorry kinda two questions here but on the same passage.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Remember Bible answers only, let the word of God speak for itself.

The Sabbath of God is the seventh day...

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

God plainly says here that the Sabbath is HIS day. It belongs to Him. It is not the Sabbath of Moses, or the Sabbath of the Jews, it is the Sabbath of the Eternal thy God.

This Commandment looks back to creation week...

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The God we are speaking of here is the Word, the Creator, the One who became Jesus Christ. It is His day and it is the seventh day. It is not really complicated at all.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well you are right about the first part, Grace is not Lawlessness. Grace is the undeserved, unearned pardon for breaking the Law. If that Law was no longer in effect, then why do I need a Savior to die for breaking that Law?

The law of Moses was in effect when Jesus died. That's why he died; to pay the penalty for past sins, i.e. sins committed under the old covenant. His death sealed the new covenant, which has new law. Every covenant has laws, and laws of abandoned covenants do not have force of law on anyone. They are just there on the books for the record, so to speak.

 

[john832]

The law of Moses was in effect when Jesus died. That's why he died; to pay the penalty for past sins, i.e. sins committed under the old covenant. His death sealed the new covenant, which has new law. Every covenant has laws, and laws of abandoned covenants do not have force of law on anyone. They are just there on the books for the record, so to speak.

You keep referring to it as the Law of Moses as if Moses invented it. Moses was simply the scribe...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.
Exo 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Now whose words are they?

But to speak to your smoke and mirrors about covenants...

His death sealed the new covenant, which has new law. Every covenant has laws, and laws of abandoned covenants do not have force of law on anyone. They are just there on the books for the record, so to speak.

What is the New Covenant?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

And this is a direct quote from Jer 31:31-34

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And when we zero in on verse 33 and the word Law there, we find that the word God Almighty inspired Jeremiah to record there is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Now you can call it anything you wish, you can pretend it is something else or you can pretend it doesn't exist, but the truth of the matter is that the New Covenant is the writing of God's Torah on our hearts and minds.

Believe and teach what you will.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You keep referring to it as the Law of Moses as if Moses invented it. Moses was simply the scribe...

I call it the law of Moses to bring clarity to the discussion. The bible calls it the law of Moses; so did Christ.

But to speak to your smoke and mirrors about covenants...

What is the New Covenant?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

And this is a direct quote from Jer 31:31-34

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And when we zero in on verse 33 and the word Law there, we find that the word God Almighty inspired Jeremiah to record there is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Now you can call it anything you wish, you can pretend it is something else or you can pretend it doesn't exist, but the truth of the matter is that the New Covenant is the writing of God's Torah on our hearts and minds.

Believe and teach what you will.

You fixate on the word torah as if it only means the law of Moses. It just means law; any law; even the law of Christ. Context determines what law it refers to. The law written in our hearts (prophesied by Jeremiah) is just figurative language to describe the indwelling holy spirit, which authored the law of Moses. It is infinitely greater than the law of Moses. It is the law (torah) of the spirit of life in Christ; it is not the law (torah) of Moses.

 

[Isdaniel]

I call it the law of Moses to bring clarity to the discussion. The bible calls it the law of Moses; so did Christ.



You fixate on the word torah as if it only means the law of Moses. It just means law; any law; even the law of Christ. Context determines what law it refers to. The law written in our hearts (prophesied by Jeremiah) is just figurative language to describe the indwelling holy spirit, which authored the law of Moses. It is infinitely greater than the law of Moses. It is the law (torah) of the spirit of life in Christ; it is not the law (torah) of Moses.

The first five books are called the law of Moses

i aint here anyone say genesis is done away , Why ?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

The Sabbath was established with the children of Israel after leaving Egypt but before the giving of the Ten Commandments or any other commandments, statues, ordinances, etc. Grace and Faith were established while still in Egypt and it came first before the LORD established the Sabbath keeping.

From a previous post, I'll share again:

Originally Posted by WomanLovesTX

Let me ask of all of you a few questions.

1) Who came out of Egypt for the Exodus?
2) Was grace and faith needed for those who came out of Egypt for the Exodus?
3) When was the first weekly Sabbath for those who came out of Egypt for the Exodus?
4) When was the first High Sabbath for those who came out of Egypt for the Exodus?
5) We see being stoned to death outside the camp is the punishment for breaking the Sabbath within the "community" of those who came out of Egypt for the Exodus. There is no Sanhedrin now to carry a testimony against a transgressor, but God has a plan for the end of days for those of His people that refuse to obey Him. Do you know what that plan is?



1) All 12 Israelite tribes AND A Mixed Multitude. How many tribes were Jewish? Only one tribe was from Judah. Who are the Mixed Multitude? Non-Israelites.

2) Yes, grace and faith were both needed for the Israelites and the mixed multitude of non-Israelites. Yahweh gave the grace and the people exercised their faith in trusting that the Lamb's blood on the doorposts that the death angel would pass over and not kill their firstborn.

3) When was the first weekly Sabbath observed by all of these peoples? They killed the passover lamb the afternoon of Nisan 14th. They ate the lamb that night. The death angel passed over those who had placed the lamb's blood on their doorpost. Their bread was not cooked with leaven, because there was no time to let it rise and then bake it. They ate and carried with them unleavened bread. In Exodus 16 we find that a month later, the 15th of the second month (Because the Passover took place in the 14th of the first month on Yah's calendar.) that they cried for meat. Exo 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.

Exo 16:1 And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

[TABLE]
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[TD="class: xl65, width: 64"]1446 BC[/TD]
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[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 6"]Third Month - counting 7 Sabbaths + 1 day = Pentecost[/TD]
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Nisan 17th was first Sabbath, but the covenant had not been given yet. The Covenant and the Ten Commandments would not be given until Pentecost day. But the first Sabbath commanded to keep was given before Pentecost and the Ten Commandments. Nisan 17th 1st Sabbath. Nisan 24 2nd Sabbath. Second month on the 1st day of the month was the 3rd Sabbath. Second month on the 8th day of the month was the 4th Sabbath. Second month on the 15th day of the month was the 5th Sabbath. The first day of the week, on the 16th was the Manna given. They picked it up each morning, with the exception of the 6th day, they picked up twice the needed amount because the next day. The 6th Sabbath was on the second month of the 22nd day. The 7th Sabbath was the 29th of the second month. Seven Sabbaths = 49 days plus 1 day (the first day of the week which was also the 1st day of the 3rd month) = Pentecost and the giving of the Ten Commandments.

With all that shown for the Manna Week (starting after the 15th of the 2nd month), you can count backwards to know when they left Egypt. It was the 4th day of the week. Same as in Creation week....Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

All of this explanation so that you can see how important the 4th day of the week is. It is the middle of the week and we know that Yeshua died on Nisan 14th around 3 p.m. Jerusalem time. Yeshua was in the grave before sunset on this day and for a literal 3 nights and a literal 3 days He was in the grave. His 72 hours would have concluded at sunset on the Sabbath evening. When the women came to His tomb early in the morning of the first day of the week Yeshua had already risen. There is absolutely no proof that He resurrected on the 1st day of the week. This is a myth the traditional mainstream christian churches have taught because they did not study the Feasts to know that at sunset on that 4th day of the week started a HIGH SABBATH (Nisan 15th). I was confused for many many years how could Jesus be in the grave from Friday sunset to Sunday morning and He fulfill prophecy? It was all because I had not been taught the Feast of the LORD (ie the front of the book.)

So the Feast of Unleavened Bread from instructions in Leviticus 23, started on Nisan 15th and ended Nisan 21st. Both the 15th and 21st are HIGH SABBATHS and it does not matter what day of the week they fall on, they are to be kept as the weekly Sabbath is to be kept.

4) When was the first HIGH SABBATH for those who came out Egypt? It would have begun at the Feast of Trumpets, 1st day of the 7th month.

5) See Revelations and the Great Hailstones. God will be the One throwing the stones at the Sabbath breakers and adulterers. Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

There were only three offenses that deserved the death penalty in the wilderness camp for the Israelites and the non-Israelites. Breaking the Sabbath, Adultery and cursing Father or Mother. Lying and stealing, did not carry the death penalty.

Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

See Leviticus 20.

You have heard and read many times that - Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

God's commandments are to be the written on our hearts for this is the New Covenant. You are either a Jew, an Israelite, a grafted in Israelite, or adopted, or included as a sojourner or stranger who is to be counted as one of the House of Jacob/Israel. People, the end of days are here and the Messianic Kingdom is our hope and joy.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

(Psalms 6:8) Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.

(Psalms 101:4) A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person.

(Psalms 119:115) Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

(Jeremiah 32:40) And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

(Matthew 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

(Luke 13:27) But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Iniquity = Strong's G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

(Deuteronomy 11:28) And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

(Jeremiah 11:3) And say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant,

(Daniel 9:11) Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

(Matthew 25:41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Psa 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

One is not a people to God if they refuse to keep His Commandments. They are deceived and one day they will say:

Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.