Let's talk about god
- Thread starter Karaka
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I think in my post I made it pretty clear that the enemy in the camp is satan and sin not you Karaka. I can't help how you feel as you are the one in control of how you feel.
We tried to help answer your questions, you really didn't want the answers you got as you have made up your mind already.
It is truly sad and at this point all I could do for you is to pray for you that someday you would be willing to allow God into your heart. I am sincere and wish you well. I do pray for the atheist/agnostic friends I have met on this site....
We tried to help answer your questions, you really didn't want the answers you got as you have made up your mind already.
It is truly sad and at this point all I could do for you is to pray for you that someday you would be willing to allow God into your heart. I am sincere and wish you well. I do pray for the atheist/agnostic friends I have met on this site....
I wanted to 'like' both of these posts, and you know I'm on both of your sides, but I didn't because I still think it's ok to explain what you believe and why.
Someone else might read and come to faith in Jesus.
But I understand the seeming pointlessness if a person isn't willing to consider the possibility that what we're saying is the Truth.
But I think of someone like Ravi Zacharius, who could dismantle the 'best' of
philosophers and intellectuals 'beliefs', and anytime we get a chance to explain the gospel or Jesus or a portion of scripture, it can only help ourselves to grow, and may just help another on the road to faith in Christ.
But it bothers me that I had to disagree a bit because you two and JL as well, are 3 excellent, wonderful sisters in Christ, and it's really a privilege to interact with you all here, so God bless you sincerely and have a group hug {{{♡♡♡}}}.
Someone else might read and come to faith in Jesus.
But I understand the seeming pointlessness if a person isn't willing to consider the possibility that what we're saying is the Truth.
But I think of someone like Ravi Zacharius, who could dismantle the 'best' of
philosophers and intellectuals 'beliefs', and anytime we get a chance to explain the gospel or Jesus or a portion of scripture, it can only help ourselves to grow, and may just help another on the road to faith in Christ.
But it bothers me that I had to disagree a bit because you two and JL as well, are 3 excellent, wonderful sisters in Christ, and it's really a privilege to interact with you all here, so God bless you sincerely and have a group hug {{{♡♡♡}}}.
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W
Can you convince me there is no God? - No
How does that make me delusional?
Imagine if you had told scientist years and years and years ago about black matter.
You think they'd take you seriously? No, they would probably say there was no such thing, because they couldn't prove it.
The world is delusional when denying it's creator, even though He has made himself perfectly evident for all to see.
How does that make me delusional?
Imagine if you had told scientist years and years and years ago about black matter.
You think they'd take you seriously? No, they would probably say there was no such thing, because they couldn't prove it.
The world is delusional when denying it's creator, even though He has made himself perfectly evident for all to see.
Yes of course I did come back for a peek...
Is this really the best you can offer to what I say ? Denial or old tired arguments that do not address my own arguments or are just so inane even christians should know better than to mention them? ( wwjd_kilden, that's for you, go back a few pages to see what Depleted said about your question)
And you wonder why I want out ? I will continue this in private with the few of you who have something interesting to bring to the table, the others can keep on raving and ranting about how close minded I am, no skin off my back... I'll keep reading books from as wide a range of authors as possible to fill the gaps in my understanding. by the way, i heartily recomend a book for all of you: The god debate , By John Shook. I think that anyone interested in this topic should read it so that tired old argument do not get thrown on the table again, and so that the discussion reach higher levels. Some of you guys sure need it. And for a change, that is a book respectfull toward all sides, i would think even believers like you would find it interesting.
But all those posts since i was here last? Most of it I can ignore. If you believe they are good valid arguments, why don't you go try them on an atheist forum for laughs ? If you think I'm so close minded, why don't you try the open minded thing and go talking to a whole forum of nonbelievers all by yourself and listen to what they say and present your refutations? But best is maybe to just check the entries for them on websites such as ironchariots.com or read shook's book for example, and try to move your argumentation to a higher level first. As believers you do have arguments, the matter is not settled, but the kind of stuff you are coming up with, most of you, is very low grade indeed. Most of them boil down to you guys believing you have established Jesus and the bible as truth (presupposing God in fact, hence your position is known as presuppositionalism), taking this as a premise and then being baffled why the rest of the world doesn't agree with your bible interpretations or accept subjective experiences as proof. None of your arguments work unless you accept your conclusion as a premise first. So as a way to prove God's existence, they are useless, and since you apparently don't see it, it is useless talking to you to try to find out if God exists or not. I did my best but I have better things to do than talking in circle with people who despise me. (on a side note, you might not be aware of it, but a discussion with you people would be enough to scare any agnostic/seeker toward atheism, which might explain why the few who dare discuss with you on this forum ended up frustrated and aggressive. It was a reaction to your dogmatic presuppositionalism. It is offputting to people who trully seek answers to be talking with people who won't accept they can be wrong. B1Davanda last post i find supremely ironic coming from somebody who states clearly that he would not consider being wrong, ever. If you want to win converts, you might want to be a bit nicer and and open and tolerant, Just saying)
But the thing that really irks me and compelled me to write something here again is the complete denial from Magenta about a central question that to my understanding she has to concede to me. Magenta, what about my response to your challenge about believing you are dead ? What happened to it ? Poof, forgotten... challenge ? What challenge ?
Let me refresh everyone's memory :
I asked :
Is there something you can conceive which would make you change your mind about Jesus?
Magenta said, and her response reflected what a lot of the others said as well so I guess it is relevant to quite a few of you :
« Can you change your mind about being alive to believe you are dead and buried? That is the question I put to you. Can you believe that while you are alive? How? What could convince you that you are dead while you are still breathing air? You may as well ask that question. That is what I said. I made a comparison which was not an evasion. Can you come up with something that will convince you that you are dead while you are living? Let's hear it. If you know nothing you can believe anything, right? Change your belief to one where you convince yourself you are dead. Do it! Then tell us how something so fundamental is just our imagination, how you can't know anything because some expert who says he knows nothing said so. LOLOLOLOLOLOL »
(emphasis mine)
This is very interesting because Magenta is in essence saying that since I can't « come up with something that will convince you that you are dead while you are living », then the notion that christians could be wrong about « knowing »Jesus is entirely ridiculous, because we can't believe we are dead.
Well, awkward argument aside, what I understand is that Magenta assumes it is impossible to convince yourself you are dead, and that it proves that it is impossible that « something so fundamental (as knowing Jesus) is just our imagination », or said another way, that one cannot be utterly convinced about something and still be wrong about it. My firt reaction was : ahah.
Because it works both ways of course, it is a challenge, so by asking that, she concedes that if I can show that one can be utterly convinced about something and still be wrong about it, that if the brain can delude you in thinking you are dead, then it is reasonable to accept the possibility it can also delude you in thinking you Know Jesus.
That's my point, so I have an interest in responding to the challenge. A similar mechanism that would make somebody believe in something as presposterous as being dead, could also make somebody believe in Jesus even if jesus wasn't real, and it could all be « in the head ». It opens the door to skepticism and reserve, it chatters certainty, it makes you need to double check, which is what I was trying to make you understand.
My point for a while back was to get you all to understand a very simple thing : certainty is not warranted, you can be mistaken about the whole thing and so you have to make sure you are not suffering from delusion (yes, even billions of people can be wrong. The argument from popularity is not a good one. And being wrong and delusional is not necessarily a disease.). We have made forays into trying to find out if you were in fact mistaken about it and I tend to believe it is the case as a result, but let's forget about that. The main issue is really the problem of certainty. I assert certainty is absurd and that as long as you profess certainty, you are not credible. And a lot of you seem certain about their « knowledge « of God. I'm not certain certainty is absurd or course, i have just a pretty good reason to trust it is so.
So, can I answer Magenta's challenge and demonstrate that my assertion is more trustworthy than hers?
Yes, very easily.
I did respond quickly and it has been completely ignored ever since. If that's not denial I do not know what it is. This is our central point of disaccord.
I responded (post #269) : « please look up cotard's syndrome. » and provided a link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotard_delusion
But maybe it got glossed over, because, well, it was a small obscure post among many. So after waiting a while, I sent her a personal message, to remind her and to let her a way to respond in private, but she ignored that as well.
So what is the Cotard's syndrome ? It is a rare mental condition Magenta seems to have never heard about. The people affectect by it are convinced they are dead. Yes, that's right, they think they are decaying, not alive. Please check it yourself, by no mean take my word for it. It can be severe enough that people don't think they need to feed themselves and so eventually die of starvation. If that's not being convinced you are dead please explain what you meant. And it is a delusion. It is a sometime curable brain malfunction, with symptoms, a pathology, a cure. Those people are not convinced by arguments, they just « know » they are dead because their brains misfire and make them « know » so, although their heart are beating and they are breathing and kicking (although quite depressed I gather). And I think it tells us a lot about how we know what we know. And how we can not be certain about « knowing » something, because the brain, sometimes, plays trick on us by making us "know" things that in fact we have no ground to "know" because it is so obviously false.
So what, you ask ? Well, either Magenta's challenge was irrelevant and she had no reason to be that aggressive to me since she had indeed evaded the question, either her challenge was relevant and she (and all the others who said they could not conceive of not believing in Jesus because they « know ») has to face the fact that it is possible to be completely mistaken about « something so fundamental » as « knowing » you are dead or, by association, that you « know » Jesus.
Or everybody can just ignore the whole thing and keep ranting about how thick and ignorant and close minded I and every single person on the planet who disagree with you, including neurologists and psychologists, are. Which if find ironic,I have to admit. It is so cliche of you, dismissing anybody who doesn't accept your « truth » as deluded...
So ? I don't want to be dragged back into posting here on a daily basis, too busy for that at the moment, but I'm interested to see what all of you have to respond to this.
For those who expressed interest in communicating privately, JimmieD and aristocrat for example, I'll come back to you when I get a chance, I'm having a busy time in real life and plenty of new books to read...
Is this really the best you can offer to what I say ? Denial or old tired arguments that do not address my own arguments or are just so inane even christians should know better than to mention them? ( wwjd_kilden, that's for you, go back a few pages to see what Depleted said about your question)
And you wonder why I want out ? I will continue this in private with the few of you who have something interesting to bring to the table, the others can keep on raving and ranting about how close minded I am, no skin off my back... I'll keep reading books from as wide a range of authors as possible to fill the gaps in my understanding. by the way, i heartily recomend a book for all of you: The god debate , By John Shook. I think that anyone interested in this topic should read it so that tired old argument do not get thrown on the table again, and so that the discussion reach higher levels. Some of you guys sure need it. And for a change, that is a book respectfull toward all sides, i would think even believers like you would find it interesting.
But all those posts since i was here last? Most of it I can ignore. If you believe they are good valid arguments, why don't you go try them on an atheist forum for laughs ? If you think I'm so close minded, why don't you try the open minded thing and go talking to a whole forum of nonbelievers all by yourself and listen to what they say and present your refutations? But best is maybe to just check the entries for them on websites such as ironchariots.com or read shook's book for example, and try to move your argumentation to a higher level first. As believers you do have arguments, the matter is not settled, but the kind of stuff you are coming up with, most of you, is very low grade indeed. Most of them boil down to you guys believing you have established Jesus and the bible as truth (presupposing God in fact, hence your position is known as presuppositionalism), taking this as a premise and then being baffled why the rest of the world doesn't agree with your bible interpretations or accept subjective experiences as proof. None of your arguments work unless you accept your conclusion as a premise first. So as a way to prove God's existence, they are useless, and since you apparently don't see it, it is useless talking to you to try to find out if God exists or not. I did my best but I have better things to do than talking in circle with people who despise me. (on a side note, you might not be aware of it, but a discussion with you people would be enough to scare any agnostic/seeker toward atheism, which might explain why the few who dare discuss with you on this forum ended up frustrated and aggressive. It was a reaction to your dogmatic presuppositionalism. It is offputting to people who trully seek answers to be talking with people who won't accept they can be wrong. B1Davanda last post i find supremely ironic coming from somebody who states clearly that he would not consider being wrong, ever. If you want to win converts, you might want to be a bit nicer and and open and tolerant, Just saying)
But the thing that really irks me and compelled me to write something here again is the complete denial from Magenta about a central question that to my understanding she has to concede to me. Magenta, what about my response to your challenge about believing you are dead ? What happened to it ? Poof, forgotten... challenge ? What challenge ?
Let me refresh everyone's memory :
I asked :
Is there something you can conceive which would make you change your mind about Jesus?
Magenta said, and her response reflected what a lot of the others said as well so I guess it is relevant to quite a few of you :
« Can you change your mind about being alive to believe you are dead and buried? That is the question I put to you. Can you believe that while you are alive? How? What could convince you that you are dead while you are still breathing air? You may as well ask that question. That is what I said. I made a comparison which was not an evasion. Can you come up with something that will convince you that you are dead while you are living? Let's hear it. If you know nothing you can believe anything, right? Change your belief to one where you convince yourself you are dead. Do it! Then tell us how something so fundamental is just our imagination, how you can't know anything because some expert who says he knows nothing said so. LOLOLOLOLOLOL »
(emphasis mine)
This is very interesting because Magenta is in essence saying that since I can't « come up with something that will convince you that you are dead while you are living », then the notion that christians could be wrong about « knowing »Jesus is entirely ridiculous, because we can't believe we are dead.
Well, awkward argument aside, what I understand is that Magenta assumes it is impossible to convince yourself you are dead, and that it proves that it is impossible that « something so fundamental (as knowing Jesus) is just our imagination », or said another way, that one cannot be utterly convinced about something and still be wrong about it. My firt reaction was : ahah.
Because it works both ways of course, it is a challenge, so by asking that, she concedes that if I can show that one can be utterly convinced about something and still be wrong about it, that if the brain can delude you in thinking you are dead, then it is reasonable to accept the possibility it can also delude you in thinking you Know Jesus.
That's my point, so I have an interest in responding to the challenge. A similar mechanism that would make somebody believe in something as presposterous as being dead, could also make somebody believe in Jesus even if jesus wasn't real, and it could all be « in the head ». It opens the door to skepticism and reserve, it chatters certainty, it makes you need to double check, which is what I was trying to make you understand.
My point for a while back was to get you all to understand a very simple thing : certainty is not warranted, you can be mistaken about the whole thing and so you have to make sure you are not suffering from delusion (yes, even billions of people can be wrong. The argument from popularity is not a good one. And being wrong and delusional is not necessarily a disease.). We have made forays into trying to find out if you were in fact mistaken about it and I tend to believe it is the case as a result, but let's forget about that. The main issue is really the problem of certainty. I assert certainty is absurd and that as long as you profess certainty, you are not credible. And a lot of you seem certain about their « knowledge « of God. I'm not certain certainty is absurd or course, i have just a pretty good reason to trust it is so.
So, can I answer Magenta's challenge and demonstrate that my assertion is more trustworthy than hers?
Yes, very easily.
I did respond quickly and it has been completely ignored ever since. If that's not denial I do not know what it is. This is our central point of disaccord.
I responded (post #269) : « please look up cotard's syndrome. » and provided a link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotard_delusion
But maybe it got glossed over, because, well, it was a small obscure post among many. So after waiting a while, I sent her a personal message, to remind her and to let her a way to respond in private, but she ignored that as well.
So what is the Cotard's syndrome ? It is a rare mental condition Magenta seems to have never heard about. The people affectect by it are convinced they are dead. Yes, that's right, they think they are decaying, not alive. Please check it yourself, by no mean take my word for it. It can be severe enough that people don't think they need to feed themselves and so eventually die of starvation. If that's not being convinced you are dead please explain what you meant. And it is a delusion. It is a sometime curable brain malfunction, with symptoms, a pathology, a cure. Those people are not convinced by arguments, they just « know » they are dead because their brains misfire and make them « know » so, although their heart are beating and they are breathing and kicking (although quite depressed I gather). And I think it tells us a lot about how we know what we know. And how we can not be certain about « knowing » something, because the brain, sometimes, plays trick on us by making us "know" things that in fact we have no ground to "know" because it is so obviously false.
So what, you ask ? Well, either Magenta's challenge was irrelevant and she had no reason to be that aggressive to me since she had indeed evaded the question, either her challenge was relevant and she (and all the others who said they could not conceive of not believing in Jesus because they « know ») has to face the fact that it is possible to be completely mistaken about « something so fundamental » as « knowing » you are dead or, by association, that you « know » Jesus.
Or everybody can just ignore the whole thing and keep ranting about how thick and ignorant and close minded I and every single person on the planet who disagree with you, including neurologists and psychologists, are. Which if find ironic,I have to admit. It is so cliche of you, dismissing anybody who doesn't accept your « truth » as deluded...
So ? I don't want to be dragged back into posting here on a daily basis, too busy for that at the moment, but I'm interested to see what all of you have to respond to this.
For those who expressed interest in communicating privately, JimmieD and aristocrat for example, I'll come back to you when I get a chance, I'm having a busy time in real life and plenty of new books to read...
Hey, Karaoke,
Does that crowd in your head get a group discount at your therapy sessions?
I'd almost feel sorry for you,
if you weren't so arrogant and condescending.
If you're trying to prove that you don't believe in God.....
Good Gosh, REALLY?
If you're trying to convince other people that they shouldn't,
you're making a lousy case for it, plus I would ask, why?
Why does it bother you that God saved some people?
They are thankful that He did,
but you are still free to die in your sins if you want to,
so what's your point?
Oh, and since YOU admitted this:
----->"because the brain, sometimes, plays trick on us by making us "know" things that in fact we have no ground to "know" because it is so obviously false."<-----
...then how can you claim to know ANYthing,
including your own statement about your own brain
sometimes playing tricks on you?
Maybe your brain tricked you into believing that,
but it's not really true.
But as Magenta so rightly pointed out, we don't simply believe in Jesus, but we KNOW Him to be true, and that is something that goes beyond mere human intellect, because it is spiritually discerned.
Does that crowd in your head get a group discount at your therapy sessions?
I'd almost feel sorry for you,
if you weren't so arrogant and condescending.
If you're trying to prove that you don't believe in God.....
Good Gosh, REALLY?
If you're trying to convince other people that they shouldn't,
you're making a lousy case for it, plus I would ask, why?
Why does it bother you that God saved some people?
They are thankful that He did,
but you are still free to die in your sins if you want to,
so what's your point?
Oh, and since YOU admitted this:
----->"because the brain, sometimes, plays trick on us by making us "know" things that in fact we have no ground to "know" because it is so obviously false."<-----
...then how can you claim to know ANYthing,
including your own statement about your own brain
sometimes playing tricks on you?
Maybe your brain tricked you into believing that,
but it's not really true.
But as Magenta so rightly pointed out, we don't simply believe in Jesus, but we KNOW Him to be true, and that is something that goes beyond mere human intellect, because it is spiritually discerned.
Another question for you, Krakatoa,
Do you believe Jesus even existed?
The Jesus of the bible...the one that people
believe died for their sins on a cross and rose from the grave,
THAT historical Jesus. Do you believe He even existed?
Because if you don't, then any further conversation regarding this topic is pointless, because
you would be showing yourself to be so out of touch with reality,
that I'm afraid only prayer and the Holy Ghost can help you.
If, however, you will at least admit the truth, that Jesus Christ actually existed and walked upon the earth as a man, real, in the flesh, then there's at least a chance.
Do you believe Jesus even existed?
The Jesus of the bible...the one that people
believe died for their sins on a cross and rose from the grave,
THAT historical Jesus. Do you believe He even existed?
Because if you don't, then any further conversation regarding this topic is pointless, because
you would be showing yourself to be so out of touch with reality,
that I'm afraid only prayer and the Holy Ghost can help you.
If, however, you will at least admit the truth, that Jesus Christ actually existed and walked upon the earth as a man, real, in the flesh, then there's at least a chance.
L
Hi Karaka. I'm new around here and this is the first post I am replying to. I haven't read all of the comments in this thread but I think I've got a good idea of what's been happening. As you have probably realised already, there is no lack of Christians willing to share news about their God with you! I'm glad to see you have an open mind to hearing about Him. Sometimes I think we find it hard to believe in God, even some Christians at times wonder if He is still listening to us (yes, me too!), especially when we feel burdened or like we have trouble seeing the good in the world, for whatever reason. My suggestion is for you to ask God to reveal Himself to you. And He will.
And as someone wrote earlier, the Bible says that if we seek Him with all our heart, we will find Him. If you want to find Him, you will. And He is keen for that to happen! But as I heard preached once, God is a gentleman, He won't force Himself on anyone. He is willing and waiting and longing for you, but will wait until you're ready to invite Him into your life. There is a song called "What if?" (I think), and the lyrics say something like what if you're right, Jesus was just another good guy, and something to do with fairytales...But then it goes on to say... what if you're wrong? What if God does really exist, and you have missed out on knowing Him? What if there's more to life than what we see? What if there is a love like we have never known before? Just ask God!
And as someone wrote earlier, the Bible says that if we seek Him with all our heart, we will find Him. If you want to find Him, you will. And He is keen for that to happen! But as I heard preached once, God is a gentleman, He won't force Himself on anyone. He is willing and waiting and longing for you, but will wait until you're ready to invite Him into your life. There is a song called "What if?" (I think), and the lyrics say something like what if you're right, Jesus was just another good guy, and something to do with fairytales...But then it goes on to say... what if you're wrong? What if God does really exist, and you have missed out on knowing Him? What if there's more to life than what we see? What if there is a love like we have never known before? Just ask God!
This is your non-answer to my questions in #288 and #289.
For all your arrogance and pretense at 'knowledge' you're too cowardly to answer, so you come back with another question that has nothing to do with the point.
The Thread title says let's talk about God, but you're afraid to answer whether or not Jesus even existed, because you know if you say NO, you're detached from reality, but if you say YES, then you have to deal with the reality of who He is, and that scares the jeepers out you.
I understand your fears...your eternal destiny hangs in the balance, and you'll do everything you can to avoid it. You'll spout walls of text which amount to nothing, you'll never convince a True christian to stop believing in Jesus, and the Lord knows them that are His, He's not going to let a single one slip away from Him because of your little pseudo-intellectual ramblings.
Some others here will play nicey-nice with you, because they're new, or they think that's the 'christian' way to be. But I see right through your nonsense, there's no need to beat around the bush, and christians aren't called to play pattycakes with the enemies of the cross.
If you want to be saved, there's plenty of people here who have and will help you along that path. If you want to die in your sins and spend eternity separated from the Living Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, continue to do what you've been doing, you're already there.
I pray for your salvation, and I thank the Lord Jesus Christ
for being my Savior, and being The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
His invitation is still open to you. You can believe in Him today.
For all your arrogance and pretense at 'knowledge' you're too cowardly to answer, so you come back with another question that has nothing to do with the point.
The Thread title says let's talk about God, but you're afraid to answer whether or not Jesus even existed, because you know if you say NO, you're detached from reality, but if you say YES, then you have to deal with the reality of who He is, and that scares the jeepers out you.
I understand your fears...your eternal destiny hangs in the balance, and you'll do everything you can to avoid it. You'll spout walls of text which amount to nothing, you'll never convince a True christian to stop believing in Jesus, and the Lord knows them that are His, He's not going to let a single one slip away from Him because of your little pseudo-intellectual ramblings.
Some others here will play nicey-nice with you, because they're new, or they think that's the 'christian' way to be. But I see right through your nonsense, there's no need to beat around the bush, and christians aren't called to play pattycakes with the enemies of the cross.
If you want to be saved, there's plenty of people here who have and will help you along that path. If you want to die in your sins and spend eternity separated from the Living Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, continue to do what you've been doing, you're already there.
I pray for your salvation, and I thank the Lord Jesus Christ
for being my Savior, and being The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
His invitation is still open to you. You can believe in Him today.
3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
15For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
16For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
~2Cor.4:3-18~
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
15For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
16For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
~2Cor.4:3-18~
Skepticism or doubt is not the opposite of faith .Unbelief (no faith) is. Skepticism prompts us by pricking or conscience to seek after the will of God who has no form behold.
It is God who works in us both to will and perform His good purpose for which he came into this world..
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which "see not" might see; and that they "which see" might be made blind.And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. Joh 9:39
It’s the reason Christ came to give the spiritual understanding, not seen,and spiritual ears to hear God in respect to those who are dead in their trespasses and sin without any living hope of eternal life .
You are simply revealing what the scriptures reveal. A mind that is dead to the spiritual things of God. And therefore cannot understand the thoughts of God. They are foolish to those who seek a faith coming from the imaginations of their own heart. Therefore having their own self as a god they have installed before Him and show others they violate the first commandment
But as it is written, "Eye" hath not seen, nor "ear" heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co 2:9
The Spirit of Christ that moved Paul to record his thoughts are inspired from heaven according to the will of God and not his own will .The Holy Spirit devoted a whole chapter in Acts 17 to the atheist to help them to worship the god they worship in vain.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
It is God who works in us both to will and perform His good purpose for which he came into this world..
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which "see not" might see; and that they "which see" might be made blind.And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. Joh 9:39
It’s the reason Christ came to give the spiritual understanding, not seen,and spiritual ears to hear God in respect to those who are dead in their trespasses and sin without any living hope of eternal life .
You are simply revealing what the scriptures reveal. A mind that is dead to the spiritual things of God. And therefore cannot understand the thoughts of God. They are foolish to those who seek a faith coming from the imaginations of their own heart. Therefore having their own self as a god they have installed before Him and show others they violate the first commandment
But as it is written, "Eye" hath not seen, nor "ear" heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co 2:9
The Spirit of Christ that moved Paul to record his thoughts are inspired from heaven according to the will of God and not his own will .The Holy Spirit devoted a whole chapter in Acts 17 to the atheist to help them to worship the god they worship in vain.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
B1Davanda, your self righteousness is really annoying. you probably did more to drive me off this thread than anybody else.
you blame me for not answering your questions although all i did was to pursue my line of thought and ask to stay on the subject I chose to talk about: epistemology, knowledge about God. if you cannot define how you know and how you know you know, then anything you say you know is not clear.
your attempt at mind reading is pitiful, you do not have a clue as to what goes through my mind, so don't bother.
as for the historical jesus, i do think there was somebody called that who preached, but to be frank with you, the historical jesus is like everything else, we can not be certain he really existed. it seems probable but not certain.
if you consider that the existence of the historical jesus is certain, then you are once more guilty of circular thinking. the historical Jesus is a matter of evidence and the evidence is weak, not non existent, but not conclusive either; the only conclusion is thus that the historical jesus is probable but not certain. Of course the argument that the historical jesus existed with certainty because Jesus is real or because it says so in the bible and the bible is true because jesus is real, is absurdly circular.
i know you are not going to accept that because for you , as a fundamentalist, evidence of jesus is not as important as the fact that you"know" Jesus, nothing could convince jesus didn't existed. so i don't want to talk about this because it is pointless, i'd rather ask questions about how you justify your knowledge about Jesus so we can have a discussion, not a shooting match.
since i stoped posting on this thread, i have been reading up on what you people seem to espouse as an epistemology, it is called presuppositionalism. i know understand better what you all said because it is clear that you do not value evidence, logic and reason the same way I do. unfortunately, your position is not defendable philosophicaly, it is intrinsicaly circular. I am convinced of it, i understand it, i see in in what you say. i am trying to make you see it too. i could be wrong but the probability of that is much lower than the one that you are thinking in circles.
so i repeat my question: do you consider there is a difference between knowledge and certainty?
this is central to any discussion about God, there can be no inteligible discussion if this is not addressed and agreed by the two parties. we disagree about this i gather, and i wanted to get to the crux of the matter, but since it appears to be a sore spot for you presuppositionalists, you just evade the question. Magenta for example, has not responded yet. what kind of person issues a challenge and then ignore the response to that challenge? that's the kind of attitude that shows me your system of thinking is flawed and that what you are saying is not credible. if you do not address the counter arguments to yours or even acknowledge them, then you lose all credibility.
you blame me for not answering your questions although all i did was to pursue my line of thought and ask to stay on the subject I chose to talk about: epistemology, knowledge about God. if you cannot define how you know and how you know you know, then anything you say you know is not clear.
your attempt at mind reading is pitiful, you do not have a clue as to what goes through my mind, so don't bother.
as for the historical jesus, i do think there was somebody called that who preached, but to be frank with you, the historical jesus is like everything else, we can not be certain he really existed. it seems probable but not certain.
if you consider that the existence of the historical jesus is certain, then you are once more guilty of circular thinking. the historical Jesus is a matter of evidence and the evidence is weak, not non existent, but not conclusive either; the only conclusion is thus that the historical jesus is probable but not certain. Of course the argument that the historical jesus existed with certainty because Jesus is real or because it says so in the bible and the bible is true because jesus is real, is absurdly circular.
i know you are not going to accept that because for you , as a fundamentalist, evidence of jesus is not as important as the fact that you"know" Jesus, nothing could convince jesus didn't existed. so i don't want to talk about this because it is pointless, i'd rather ask questions about how you justify your knowledge about Jesus so we can have a discussion, not a shooting match.
since i stoped posting on this thread, i have been reading up on what you people seem to espouse as an epistemology, it is called presuppositionalism. i know understand better what you all said because it is clear that you do not value evidence, logic and reason the same way I do. unfortunately, your position is not defendable philosophicaly, it is intrinsicaly circular. I am convinced of it, i understand it, i see in in what you say. i am trying to make you see it too. i could be wrong but the probability of that is much lower than the one that you are thinking in circles.
so i repeat my question: do you consider there is a difference between knowledge and certainty?
this is central to any discussion about God, there can be no inteligible discussion if this is not addressed and agreed by the two parties. we disagree about this i gather, and i wanted to get to the crux of the matter, but since it appears to be a sore spot for you presuppositionalists, you just evade the question. Magenta for example, has not responded yet. what kind of person issues a challenge and then ignore the response to that challenge? that's the kind of attitude that shows me your system of thinking is flawed and that what you are saying is not credible. if you do not address the counter arguments to yours or even acknowledge them, then you lose all credibility.
L
Dear Karaka, I would like to apologize to you. Sometimes, well-meaning & passionate Christians can unfortunately drive people away from finding a God they want to see. God is patient, and gentle and kind, and all those things that 1 Corinthians 13 talk about with respect to love. He is not behind the intense comments you have received. I hope you find God in your search and that you can discern His voice in all the comments, for the Bible says that His sheep know His voice. Please fellow Christians, remember the request of the Bible to speak the truth in love. Love is what is needed here. It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong, but that you treat people with love, just as God is love.
ps. I think the difference between certainty and knowledge is a little like the difference between knowledge and wisdom...knowledge is the knowing, and wisdom is the knowing when and how to use that knowledge..
pp.s. God really does love you!!
ps. I think the difference between certainty and knowledge is a little like the difference between knowledge and wisdom...knowledge is the knowing, and wisdom is the knowing when and how to use that knowledge..
pp.s. God really does love you!!
It is a common tactic of non-believers to blame Christians for their lack of belief, but Scripture says they do not believe because they are blinded by the god of this world, that their pride of life and lusts of the flesh govern them, and they threw off knowledge of God in favour of those things. In other words, Satan is their master, and they are incapable of accepting what Christians say because such truths are spiritually discerned. Jesus said, "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil." What has been said to the OP is offensive for that reason, as he calls us delusional because we claim to know something he does not, complaining about our arguments from authority while he holds up this authority and that authority, all of whom argue from ignorance, some claiming nothing can be known, so what is he really trying to tell us, and how does he expect to dissuade those who know by claiming nothing can be known? God wants to be known, Jesus promised He can be known, Scripture attests to this fact. The whole of Scripture points to Jesus Christ and the OP will not even answer a simple question regarding Him. God promised that if we search for Him we will find Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Who will look for what one believes does not exist in the first place?
Thank you, magenta!
Someone that actually has a brain and isn't afraid to use it.
God bless you very much! ♡
The bible says to love the Lord with all our heart and all our MIND,
which you've shown you do over and over, even in this very thread alone,
but we are obviously dealing with a
deliberately nattering nabob of negativity.
Hey, Krakka, You're not fooling everybody here.
I really don't care if you think I'm self-righteous, or want to use me as an excuse for being anti-christ.
I've given you the gospel enough times, as have many ppl here for quite some time. And I've prayed for you, all without asking a thing in return. You are not interested in the truth and you know it, and your little game stinks.
There's a young lady on this site that has recently received the Lord Jesus Christ as her Savior, and is truly seeking her Lord and what being baptised entails.
She has more humility in her little finger than you've got in your whole self, and all your bragging about your intellect isn't helping you any.
You have a very funny opinion on the meaning of self-righteousness, also.
There's really only 2 kinds of righteousness, self and God's.
Since you have yet to receive the righteousness of God which is by faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are obviously still seeking to establish a righteousness of your own, but in the end, without Jesus, that's all you'll get, and that's very sad.
I did say in another post, that the way of salvation is still open to you, but I guess you missed that, too.
But I'm not into nice-isms with you anymore.
You've shown no respect for that anyhow, and
I've had enough deception in my lifetime, I don't need yours, too,
and even though the bible says to speak the truth in love, it seems some some christians think that means sweet-talking drivel.
But the truth is, those who are opposed to Christ are speaking sweet-talking lies that might even send ppl to hell if believed, so where's the love in that?!
I nearly fell off my chair when one recent poster said it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, as long as you treat ppl with love.
Now, that person is new here, and I will guess, probably nice and well-intended, but we're people who know that Jesus is the One who claimed to be, (and proved He is), The Truth, so right and wrong are of utmost importance.
Everyone is self-righteous and missing the Truth to some degree
in their life. But then Jesus changed all that. Now, those that are saved are at different stages of growing in His grace and knowledge and conformity to His image. As we often say, we're not yet perfect, we're forgiven.
But we know our Savior loves us and purchased us at the highest cost, His own blood, and by His grace and mercy, He's leading us and will bring us home, Hallelujah! And He gives us different gifts and different levels of faith and ability to use them.
Patience with those who are antagonistic to the Truth, Jesus, and my brothers and sisters in Christ, is not my strong suit.
I don't need to be instructed about God, let alone
empty philosophies of man, by someone who doesn't
believe in Jesus.
We were all unbelievers once, and have been set free
from that sin. We have no need or desire to go back into
the darkness that Jesus gave His life to release us from.
Until you accept that He loved you enough to die for you, too,
you also are still in darkness.
If you honestly want to be set free
and believe in Jesus, I would be happy to be your friend,
and help you, and call you brother in Christ, even,
but until you show a genuine interest in being saved,
you don't come across as a seeker of the truth, but
more like just a blow-hard who's full of hot air.
(There, that's my 'nice' for the day)
Someone that actually has a brain and isn't afraid to use it.
God bless you very much! ♡
The bible says to love the Lord with all our heart and all our MIND,
which you've shown you do over and over, even in this very thread alone,
but we are obviously dealing with a
deliberately nattering nabob of negativity.
Hey, Krakka, You're not fooling everybody here.
I really don't care if you think I'm self-righteous, or want to use me as an excuse for being anti-christ.
I've given you the gospel enough times, as have many ppl here for quite some time. And I've prayed for you, all without asking a thing in return. You are not interested in the truth and you know it, and your little game stinks.
There's a young lady on this site that has recently received the Lord Jesus Christ as her Savior, and is truly seeking her Lord and what being baptised entails.
She has more humility in her little finger than you've got in your whole self, and all your bragging about your intellect isn't helping you any.
You have a very funny opinion on the meaning of self-righteousness, also.
There's really only 2 kinds of righteousness, self and God's.
Since you have yet to receive the righteousness of God which is by faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are obviously still seeking to establish a righteousness of your own, but in the end, without Jesus, that's all you'll get, and that's very sad.
I did say in another post, that the way of salvation is still open to you, but I guess you missed that, too.
But I'm not into nice-isms with you anymore.
You've shown no respect for that anyhow, and
I've had enough deception in my lifetime, I don't need yours, too,
and even though the bible says to speak the truth in love, it seems some some christians think that means sweet-talking drivel.
But the truth is, those who are opposed to Christ are speaking sweet-talking lies that might even send ppl to hell if believed, so where's the love in that?!
I nearly fell off my chair when one recent poster said it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, as long as you treat ppl with love.
Now, that person is new here, and I will guess, probably nice and well-intended, but we're people who know that Jesus is the One who claimed to be, (and proved He is), The Truth, so right and wrong are of utmost importance.
Everyone is self-righteous and missing the Truth to some degree
in their life. But then Jesus changed all that. Now, those that are saved are at different stages of growing in His grace and knowledge and conformity to His image. As we often say, we're not yet perfect, we're forgiven.
But we know our Savior loves us and purchased us at the highest cost, His own blood, and by His grace and mercy, He's leading us and will bring us home, Hallelujah! And He gives us different gifts and different levels of faith and ability to use them.
Patience with those who are antagonistic to the Truth, Jesus, and my brothers and sisters in Christ, is not my strong suit.
I don't need to be instructed about God, let alone
empty philosophies of man, by someone who doesn't
believe in Jesus.
We were all unbelievers once, and have been set free
from that sin. We have no need or desire to go back into
the darkness that Jesus gave His life to release us from.
Until you accept that He loved you enough to die for you, too,
you also are still in darkness.
If you honestly want to be set free
and believe in Jesus, I would be happy to be your friend,
and help you, and call you brother in Christ, even,
but until you show a genuine interest in being saved,
you don't come across as a seeker of the truth, but
more like just a blow-hard who's full of hot air.
(There, that's my 'nice' for the day)
B
How do you justify your knowledge of God?
I understand this question to mean: How do I show my knowledge of God to be right? This question really gets down to the basics of faith--not faith, as in the Christian faith--but faith, as in belief (in God). So, the question could be again rephrased: Why do you believe in God? -or- How do you know God exists...and how do you know your knowledge of God is accurate?
In philosophy (I think you understand this--putting it out here for the record), 'knowledge' is 'true, justified belief; certain understanding (as opposed to opinion)'. As Christians, we look to our Scriptures (Holy Bible) to gain our knowledge of God. We also look to God's creation; "...that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made..." (Romans 1:18-...)
This may seem like circular logic: Christians look to the Bible to find knowledge of God and the Bible points to Creation (Christians being part of this Creation) to find knowledge of God. And perhaps it is. But there's a problem with using logic when faith is required.
Logic has made you agnostic but agnosticism is not concerned with belief. You understand that you cannot logically prove or disprove the existence of God. I was there for quite some time--Agnostic and then Agnostic Theist--but ultimately that 'Agnostic' tag was dropped because God, through prayer and revelation, increases our faith.
We cannot prove to you that God exists--but if you believe God exists, we can show you how we've come to know God.
I was a doubter and a skeptic. Sometimes doubt and skepticism creeps back into my mind. The doubt can help us learn some difficult lessons of life--but we are blessed much more when we, instead, have faith. Certainty is the opposite of doubt. I have asked God to replace my doubt with certainty and when doubt creeps back--I ask again. I do this because of my personal conviction--and it works.
I've shared this a few times here recently, this is an excerpt from the preface to C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity--well worth considering:
"I hope no reader will suppose that "mere" Christianity is here put forward as an alternative to the creeds of the existing communions—as if a man could adopt it in preference to Congregationalism or Greek Orthodoxy or anything else. It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall I shall have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not in the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think, preferable."
"It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into your room you will find that the long wait has done you some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and paneling."
"In plain language, the question should never be: "Do I like that kind of service?" but "Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?""
"When you have reached your own room, be kind to those Who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house."
Here are some feelings I experienced in the hallway: Loneliness, Anxiousness, Overwhelming Sadness, Frustration, Disconnectedness. Here are some feelings I experienced in my room: Happiness, Fellowship, Peace.
Happy to answer any questions you may have, Karaka--welcome to CC!
I understand this question to mean: How do I show my knowledge of God to be right? This question really gets down to the basics of faith--not faith, as in the Christian faith--but faith, as in belief (in God). So, the question could be again rephrased: Why do you believe in God? -or- How do you know God exists...and how do you know your knowledge of God is accurate?
In philosophy (I think you understand this--putting it out here for the record), 'knowledge' is 'true, justified belief; certain understanding (as opposed to opinion)'. As Christians, we look to our Scriptures (Holy Bible) to gain our knowledge of God. We also look to God's creation; "...that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made..." (Romans 1:18-...)
This may seem like circular logic: Christians look to the Bible to find knowledge of God and the Bible points to Creation (Christians being part of this Creation) to find knowledge of God. And perhaps it is. But there's a problem with using logic when faith is required.
Logic has made you agnostic but agnosticism is not concerned with belief. You understand that you cannot logically prove or disprove the existence of God. I was there for quite some time--Agnostic and then Agnostic Theist--but ultimately that 'Agnostic' tag was dropped because God, through prayer and revelation, increases our faith.
We cannot prove to you that God exists--but if you believe God exists, we can show you how we've come to know God.
I was a doubter and a skeptic. Sometimes doubt and skepticism creeps back into my mind. The doubt can help us learn some difficult lessons of life--but we are blessed much more when we, instead, have faith. Certainty is the opposite of doubt. I have asked God to replace my doubt with certainty and when doubt creeps back--I ask again. I do this because of my personal conviction--and it works.
I've shared this a few times here recently, this is an excerpt from the preface to C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity--well worth considering:
"I hope no reader will suppose that "mere" Christianity is here put forward as an alternative to the creeds of the existing communions—as if a man could adopt it in preference to Congregationalism or Greek Orthodoxy or anything else. It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall I shall have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not in the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think, preferable."
"It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into your room you will find that the long wait has done you some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and paneling."
"In plain language, the question should never be: "Do I like that kind of service?" but "Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?""
"When you have reached your own room, be kind to those Who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house."
Here are some feelings I experienced in the hallway: Loneliness, Anxiousness, Overwhelming Sadness, Frustration, Disconnectedness. Here are some feelings I experienced in my room: Happiness, Fellowship, Peace.
Happy to answer any questions you may have, Karaka--welcome to CC!