Lord we need you! Foundational truths

[PennEd]

The gospel is about SALVATION which is both justification and sanctification.

If you only want to talk about justification, you only get half the gospel.

Same goes for sanctification.

Both should be preached in the gospel message.

You are asking a dead person to understand how they should live their lives. They are not going to understand UNTIL they are no longer dead and are a new creation.

Once they are saved, it will be The Holy Spirit that reveals to them the changes they need to make to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The gospel is about SALVATION which is both justification and sanctification.

If you only want to talk about justification, you only get half the gospel.

Same goes for sanctification.

Both should be preached in the gospel message.

It is not legalism to teach the FULL gospel message.

it is blindness to not see what people say and superimpose past prejudices upon others.

We are sanctified BECAUSE we are saved, NOT TO GET SAVED.

Anyone teaching sanctification is the process of being saved is teaching a works based Gospel.

We do not get sanctified to a point we are ok with God and we can not get saved, That is not true.. Nor can we fall back in our sanctification to a point we can lose salvation.

(positional sanctification however is another story, But positional sanctification is the same as justification)

 

[Ariel82]

You are asking a dead person to understand how they should live their lives. They are not going to understand UNTIL they are no longer dead and are a new creation.

Once they are saved, it will be The Holy Spirit that reveals to them the changes they need to make to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

No I am asking people to stop feeding adults breastmilk and make them learn to eat solid food.

If people spend all their time preaching justification, when does discipleship training begin? When do people learn about sanctification? What if they hear other voices besides the Holy Spirit, how do they learn to discern the difference?

 

[wsblind]

1. How does someone gain salvation?

By believing that we are a sinner and that Christ came to die for you and your sins and that He was raised again for you.

By trusting in Christ's work and what He did for us.

2. How does God want to live our lives?

Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit. But as we can see, this point can't really be hashed out if point 1 isn't rock solid in the mind of the believer.

Discussing point 2 will always default back to point 1 if salvation isn't FINISHED in our minds.

 

[PennEd]

No I am asking people to stop feeding adults breastmilk and make them learn to eat solid food.

If people spend all their time preaching justification, when does discipleship training begin? When do people learn about sanctification? What if they hear other voices besides the Holy Spirit, how do they learn to discern the difference?

This is a good point. And it's absolutely true. Problem is, new people come here all the time and get confused by the difference between justification and sanctification.

It might be a worthy endeavor to split the BDF into those 2 categories.

 

[Ariel82]

We are sanctified BECAUSE we are saved, NOT TO GET SAVED.

Anyone teaching sanctification is the process of being saved is teaching a works based Gospel.

We do not get sanctified to a point we are ok with God and we can not get saved, That is not true.. Nor can we fall back in our sanctification to a point we can lose salvation.

(positional sanctification however is another story, But positional sanctification is the same as justification)

Not what I said or believe at all...All I hear is a loud gong right now.

Are you actually listening to what I am trying to say to you?

Maybe I need work on my communication skills.

I know the difference between justification and sanctification, but I believe BOTH are part of the gospel....God justifies us through Christ blood,then He sanctified us, neither are by our power but HIS.

James talks about a dead faith. Some people stop at justification and then believe that's it...but it's not..God cleanses us of our sins in order that we do good works.

That is the full message,

Good works doesn't save us.

But full message is that God has more planned for our lives than just being saved. He blesses us and he wants us to bless and love others as well.

 

[NayborBear]

The gospel, as I sees it now, is Our Father's undying Love for His stupid and stiff-necked children. If you take the Bible, as a whole, you can "see" how time after time after time after time when Israel drifted into rebelliousness, provoking God to anger, and thus punishment, sometimes into captivity, waiting, for Priest's and children to turn from their wicked ways, and He would heal them! As a nation! When this became IMPOSSIBLE, even after He provided a gentile King (Darius), to "sponsor" Israel to rebuild His Temple , they STILL "drifted" to the point that God could NOT "yield" any longer, and He divorced Israel! As a Nation, and individually! He sent Jesus, as a further manifestation of His undying love for His people Israel (ami), who rejected Him, as well! THEN, God said, I'll show MY Love to WHOSOEVER WILL,may come, or, individually, and not, as a whole nation! The parables Jesus taught are "hidden" insights as to the wicked works of the enemy, as well as the "efforts" of faith "invested", in not only accepting "whosoever will, may come", laying one's own burden/s AT the cross, BUT? That which one must do in "picking up one's own cross" and following Jesus, to that, and into that Holy Priesthood, that is the Order of Melchizadek! Many "come"...FEW, find it! Many called?....Few chosen!

Am I a Christian?....Oh yes, yes I am! I'm also, a "mutt"! Therefore, also, a gentile, and not Jewish, by any lineages of genealogy! A "W.A.S.P.", who believes the book of James speaking to "Those scattered!"...Does this mean that only white people can obtain salvation, thus becoming called, and yet unable in obtaining Holy Priesthood status?

GOD FORBID! Or? "What you talkin 'bout Willis?"

 

[Ariel82]

This is a good point. And it's absolutely true. Problem is, new people come here all the time and get confused by the difference between justification and sanctification.

It might be a worthy endeavor to split the BDF into those 2 categories.

Lol unlikely to happen.

When I have time I ask everyone I meet what their gospel message is.

Some people probably think I am simple minded and childish, but it's what God has taught me to do from a very young age.

Phrases like "Praise God from whom all blessing flow" and "Jesus is my Lord and Savior"

I find reassuring.

However, before I personally listen to anyone who tries and teaches me about the Bible or asks me questions about the Bible, I first establish if they understand how they,have been justified and saved by grace alone through faith in JESUS Christ death on the cross for their sins. If they have been born again and can,hear the Holy Spirit.

Without the Holy Spirit, discussing the Bible is difficult.

However if they show they know about justification (that Christ is their foundation and they follow the Holy Spirit as best as they are able) then talking about sanctification and the Bible becomes a blessing.

 

[Ariel82]

The gospel, as I sees it now, is Our Father's undying Love for His stupid and stiff-necked children. If you take the Bible, as a whole, you can "see" how time after time after time after time when Israel drifted into rebelliousness, provoking God to anger, and thus punishment, sometimes into captivity, waiting, for Priest's and children to turn from their wicked ways, and He would heal them! As a nation! When this became IMPOSSIBLE, even after He provided a gentile King (Darius), to "sponsor" Israel to rebuild His Temple , they STILL "drifted" to the point that God could NOT "yield" any longer, and He divorced Israel! As a Nation, and individually! He sent Jesus, as a further manifestation of His undying love for His people Israel (ami), who rejected Him, as well! THEN, God said, I'll show MY Love to WHOSOEVER WILL,may come, or, individually, and not, as a whole nation! The parables Jesus taught are "hidden" insights as to the wicked works of the enemy, as well as the "efforts" of faith "invested", in not only accepting "whosoever will, may come", laying one's own burden/s AT the cross, BUT? That which one must do in "picking up one's own cross" and following Jesus, to that, and into that Holy Priesthood, that is the Order of Melchizadek! Many "come"...FEW, find it! Many called?....Few chosen!

Am I a Christian?....Oh yes, yes I am! I'm also, a "mutt"! Therefore, also, a gentile, and not Jewish, by any lineages of genealogy! A "W.A.S.P.", who believes the book of James speaking to "Those scattered!"...Does this mean that only white people can obtain salvation, thus becoming called, and yet unable in obtaining Holy Priesthood status?

GOD FORBID! Or? "What you talkin 'bout Willis?"

Lol for some reason your post made me laugh.

God bless you brother and praise God for your enthusiasm.

 

[Depleted]

Please this is an attempt to find common ground. Take the poll and explain clearly what the gospel of Christ is.

1. How does someone gain salvation?
2. How does God want to live our lives?

Two simple questions that can show the foundation we build our faith upon.

Salvation is the five solas. It's not what we do, it's what God does.

And what does God do? This!

(Ha! I can write in small amounts, thanks to the internet. lol)

 

[Depleted]

I am gonna play a Lynn card....can you explain that Bible verse and what it means to you Zone?

LOL In this case, I understood because she's got my background in faith. We're reformed, so get reformed go-to verses. lol

 

[FreeNChrist]

I believe the gospel is about repentance, confession and walking righteously, but HOW God makes this happen in the lives of believers is important.

Repentance is God working in our hearts before being born again.

Confession is when we accept the gospel that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

Walking righteously can only happen after we have been born again and are lead by the Holy Spirit. (we no longer have to repent of the son of unbelief but we must learn self control to stop willful sin and wisdom to learn how to live godly lives)

All are part of the gospel of salvation.

The gospel is ALL about Jesus, and what He has done to save sinners. Our response to the gospel is not a part of the gospel.

 

[Ariel82]

Salvation is the five solas. It's not what we do, it's what God does.

And what does God do? This!

(Ha! I can write in small amounts, thanks to the internet. lol)

But i feel that your brief words will open a can of worms....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I am asking people to stop feeding adults breastmilk and make them learn to eat solid food.

If people spend all their time preaching justification, when does discipleship training begin? When do people learn about sanctification? What if they hear other voices besides the Holy Spirit, how do they learn to discern the difference?

What about the babes? What about those who are not even babes? but are still outsiders?

 

[Ariel82]

The gospel is ALL about Jesus, and what He has done to save sinners. Our response to the gospel is not a part of the gospel.

Our response to what Jesus did for us is part of our salvation: true or false?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is a good point. And it's absolutely true. Problem is, new people come here all the time and get confused by the difference between justification and sanctification.

It might be a worthy endeavor to split the BDF into those 2 categories.

could you even do this?

The fact is, You will still have legalisms judging the grace people of loving sin, and hating righteousness. And grace people calling out the legalists.. It is never ending.

 

[Ariel82]

What about the babes? What about those who are not even babes? but are still outsiders?

Do you beat babies?

Do you put on a show of beating folks over with scriptures to "prove" to the babies what the truth is?

Preach the gospel. Talk about the difference between justification and sanctification. Praise God.

Determine if you are talking to a baby, an adult or an unbeliever.

If you spot a wolf, an enemy, then do what Jesus says: bless those who curse you, go the extra mile. Let vengeance be God's .

That last statement goes against the world's wisdom and will probably be rejected.

 

[Ariel82]

could you even do this?

The fact is, You will still have legalisms judging the grace people of loving sin, and hating righteousness. And grace people calling out the legalists.. It is never ending.

Because no one ever wants to acknowledge their own sins and bad behavior.

 

[NayborBear]

No I am asking people to stop feeding adults breastmilk and make them learn to eat solid food.

If people spend all their time preaching justification, when does discipleship training begin? When do people learn about sanctification? What if they hear other voices besides the Holy Spirit, how do they learn to discern the difference?

TEST the voices, Ariel! There have been many times, in my past, where I was taken before the "Councils of God", and found wanting! DON'T give up, and DON'T give in! WRESTLE with that beast! EARN acts attributable towards righteousness! within your OWN self!

Why did Paul state that which he said about "breast milk?"....Ya remember the story when the people of Israel were transporting the Ark Of The Covenant, back to Jerusalem? And the cart ran over a stone or something, which caused the Ark to teeter? And this guy with EVERY GOOD INTENTION, just touched, the Ark, in trying to steady it?...Yeah! Tis a lot like that!

 

[Depleted]

Doesn't really clarify anything.....does God give everyone the ability to recognize good and evil and repent or do sinners have an excuse of being "ignorant"?

I believe scripture says God has given His laws to all of humanity. Everyone is born with a moral compass, but we do not always listen and follow God.

I believe the first step of preaching the gospel message is for people to realize that they Need a savior.

God preordained us to have the knowledge between good and evil. We aren't tabula rasa. If we were, Cain did nothing wrong when he killed Abel.

Therefore, Romans 1:[FONT=&quot]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.[/FONT]

And, if you look at that list, that's all of us! So the knowing didn't do it for us. God did.

If it be God's will that he will save a person, there isn't a "first step" in the gospel, there is just letting people know what God's word says. Because
Romans 10:17 [FONT=&quot]So then faith [/FONT]comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.