Luke 21:11-12 give a clue post trib

[J7]

Where did I say that?

You said that we could jump to the conclusion that Luke's account takes place on the Mt Of Olives, because the prophecy is called 'The Olivet Discourse', and because that makes Luke align better with Mark and Matthew. I merely pointed out that nowhere does Luke indicate that any of the prophecy takes place on the Mt Of Olives.

Often a meaning, or sense, is implicit rather than explicit. But anyhow, let's look at the accounts...you may well be right, it is one and the same....but the timelines will confirm that.

 

[J7]

look odd brother, oN monday desciple ask about when destruction of the temple and sign of second coming, Tuesday ask about destruction of the temple, and Jesus explain the sign of His coming oN the cloud. If they not ask about second coming, why the answered explain d how He come oN the cloud, and sunday they ask about temple destruction, and again Jesus explain how He appear in the cloud.

in those 3 article Jesus always tell about second coming in the cloud. To me It paralel with the story of how Jesus born, though It is in the 4 gospel doesn't mean happen 4 time.

Odd? This is an insult in English.

 

[Jackson123]

Odd? This is an insult in English.

I am Sorry, I do not mean to insult you brother

 

[J7]

No worries J123.

Well I have read all 3 accounts.


Matthew's happens on the second day, Mark's and Luke's on the third.

Mark's is a private conversation with 4 disciples on the Mt Of Olives, Luke just simply states nothing of the kind, so to me it is quite a leap to say that that is what he meant...

 

[Jackson123]

No worries J123.

Well I have read all 3 accounts.


Matthew's happens on the second day, Mark's and Luke's on the third.

Mark's is a private conversation with 4 disciples on the Mt Of Olives, Luke just simply states nothing of the kind, so to me it is quite a leap to say that that is what he meant...

J7, I do not understand what do you mean, Matthew happen oN the second day, I do not understand second day from what?

Is that mean Matt wrote second day after incident?

 

[J7]

Sorry.

Jesus taught daily in the Temple prior to his arrest. The first day he taught was the day he entered Jerusalem triumphally on an ass.

 

[jb]

No worries J123.

Well I have read all 3 accounts.


Matthew's happens on the second day, Mark's and Luke's on the third.

.

Absolute nonsense, ALL 3 accounts took place on the same day at the same time (on the Mount of Olives)!

I suggest you do a bit of a study on the harmony of the Gospels!

 

[J7]

The idea that Jesus never repeated or reiterated a message GA is disproven by the fact that Jesus explained his second coming on two separate occasions. See Luke 17 and Matthew 24

(Personally I don't get the beef, it seems to me that if the message was important enough, Jesus would repeat it many times. Why wouldn't he give the same message to different audiences, or repeat the same message to his disciples until they got it?)

 

[Jackson123]

The idea that Jesus never repeated or reiterated a message GA is disproven by the fact that Jesus explained his second coming on two separate occasions. See Luke 17 and Matthew 24

(Personally I don't get the beef, it seems to me that if the message was important enough, Jesus would repeat it many times. Why wouldn't he give the same message to different audiences, or repeat the same message to his disciples until they got it?)

so you believe that Luke, matt and Mark is the same Message, but Jesus repeat It twice, am I correct?

 

[J7]

so you believe that Luke, matt and Mark is the same Message, but Jesus repeat It twice, am I correct?

I don't know Jackson; I certainly think it is possible.

All 3 accounts have quite major differences. The overall message is the same, but each account is not the same.

Luke and Mark both occur after the widow gives two mites, so obviously they are the same event, except that then in Luke the discussion appears to take place in situ at the Temple, whereas in Mark, it is Andrew Peter James and John who later approach Jesus on the Mt Of Olives.

I don't think it 'absurd' or 'silly' as Gary A puts it to wonder why these discrepancies exist.

 

[Jackson123]

I don't know Jackson; I certainly think it is possible.

All 3 accounts have quite major differences. The overall message is the same, but each account is not the same.

Luke and Mark both occur after the widow gives two mites, so obviously they are the same event, except that then in Luke the discussion appears to take place in situ at the Temple, whereas in Mark, it is Andrew Peter James and John who later approach Jesus on the Mt Of Olives.

I don't think it 'absurd' or 'silly' as Gary A puts it to wonder why these discrepancies exist.

[h=1]21King James Version (KJV)[/h]21 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Verse 1 to 3 look like happen in the situ temple, than they may went to mt Olive, I Check, distance between the temple to mt olive is only half mile. And the conversation may happen in mt Olive, AS Mark Said.

I do not believe, It happen twice, first in the temple, and Luke documented,than they went to mt Olive and Mark documented. It very unlikely

 

[Bladerunner]

Luke 21

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

luke 11 is wrath of God.

Verse 12

but before all These ( before wrath of God) there is persecution (tribulation)

persecution is always happen since apostle time, why Jesus Said in verse 12 that there Will be persecution in the end time before Wrath of God preceding
His second coming?


I believe this is more severe persecution or great tribulation for christian

Awh! the old post trib Rapture......... Beat the Hell out of the Wife to be with the Tribulation and God's wrath and then take her to get married. Yep, it works every time.

Is that what you was talking about?

 

[Jackson123]

Awh! the old post trib Rapture......... Beat the Hell out of the Wife to be with the Tribulation and God's wrath and then take her to get married. Yep, it works every time.

Is that what you was talking about?

nop, tribulation than rapture than God wrath.

I do not know why God let people persecute and kill Stephen, and in the history of Christianity persecution always happen to God future wife. Now happen in Middle East, or North Korea, etc.

 

[TMS]

Awh! the old post trib Rapture......... Beat the Hell out of the Wife to be with the Tribulation and God's wrath and then take her to get married. Yep, it works every time.

Is that what you was talking about?

Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.


Luk_21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Joh_15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.



The wrath of God that is to come without mercy can still distinguish the unrighteous and the righteous.
Rom_1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Like the people in Egypt if we have the blood painted on our door posts (hearts) we will be protected.

 

[J7]

21King James Version (KJV)

21 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Verse 1 to 3 look like happen in the situ temple, than they may went to mt Olive, I Check, distance between the temple to mt olive is only half mile. And the conversation may happen in mt Olive, AS Mark Said.

I do not believe, It happen twice, first in the temple, and Luke documented,than they went to mt Olive and Mark documented. It very unlikely

Maybe, but Luke gives no indication that they leave the Temple. If anything the contrary:

37 [FONT=&quot]And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.[/FONT]

Whereas Mark tells us that he was asked a private question:

3 [FONT=&quot]And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Although it seems logical that the two accounts are the same event, it is also not illogical to understand that what Mark tells us, from verse 3 onwards, is a separate event to the questions and answers described in Luke.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[Jackson123]

Maybe, but Luke gives no indication that they leave the Temple. If anything the contrary:

37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.

Whereas Mark tells us that he was asked a private question:

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately

Although it seems logical that the two accounts are the same event, it is also not illogical to understand that what Mark tells us, from verse 3 onwards, is a separate event to the questions and answers described in Luke.

yep we only can speculate, but more likely it is one even 2 writer, Jesus teach in the temple on the day but sleep in mt olive at night, so it mean after teaching they go to mt olive, this conversation happen there.

 

[J7]

Or, bearing in mind they did not have Youtube to replay everything, Andrew James John and Peter simply wanted to hear the Prophecy again, given it is such a mind blowing prophecy that will affect their lives and the life of the Church so deeply?

 

[Jackson123]

Or, bearing in mind they did not have Youtube to replay everything, Andrew James John and Peter simply wanted to hear the Prophecy again, given it is such a mind blowing prophecy that will affect their lives and the life of the Church so deeply?

can be, and One of them tell to Mark, what happen. But the same material, so it doesn't make any different. It is about temple destruction and His second coming on the cloud.

 

[J7]

Yes, basically you are right.

 

[craig1971]

I think the Rapture takes place in Rev 14:14-16 (and Rev 14:17-19 is a description of God preparing Earthdwellers for judgment). Rev 15 onward are the Bowl judgments. It is interesting that in the Bible God always pours out his wrath/judgment, Old and New Testament! Which of God's judgments are poured out on the Earth/Earthdwellers in Revelation. Seal? Trumpets? Bowls? I associate the Bowl judgments with God's Wrath. I believe the Church to be exempt from God's Wrath. It is also interesting at the first coming of Jesus, Jesus birthday is believed to be on Rosh Hashanah/Feast of Trumpets. I wonder if the Trumpet judgments parallels Feast of Trumpets by being the form of announcement to the Earthdwellers of Jesus' Second Coming?