Mike Bickle's "Israel Mandate"

[PeterJens]

Peter, one thing that might help your posts is if you actually referenced the Scriptures you are using. I am aware you do quote the Bible a lot, but others might not be familar with the verses, and sometimes it is nice to look up the verse in context, to see what they mean in the passage and the chapter.

A little less rambling might also help. I think you do have some good thoughts, but trying and be a bit more concise will help those of us who are reading your posts. It also might help you to organize what you are trying to say.

Thank you for your help. I do suffer a little bit about being consise, but being an extrovert I often discover what I mean to say after I have said it. I hope you can bear with me.

These threads are also a discovery of peoples experiences and how they express themselves. It takes time to begin to tailor ones points so they address the perspectives being brought. One thing I discovered in previous discussions, is until you know what people actually believe it is difficult to engage, because hidden assumptions can destroy a point, without you realising it. From the language used against me, this battle has only just begun. What I find odd is they think they can win when they are denying the very basis upon which they stand.

I also do not fear what I am saying, because it is the Lord and His words. I am called to answer to my calling and faith, so to not proclaim would be to deny the Lord and Saviour of my life. I know it sounds pompous, and it is not really my nature, but it is simply true. But this creates a problem for those who stand against me, because I stand openly, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, on the Lords love, His death and resurrection.

 

[Pumicestone]

Two people have now called me a liar. Now think a little logically about this.
To be a liar you have to actually lie about something. Now I have quoted scripture, I have quoted Jesus and his gospel.
I have spoken about things preached for 2000 years, by every believing christian yet I am a liar.

I reckon Peter and I would differ on just about everything theological.

But to call the guy a liar - and far worse
" a saboteur, fraud, deceiver, mocker, foolish, absurd, an agent of darkness" etc etc
is arrogant in the extreme.

I have little doubt he is expressing his genuine, heart-felt, sincere understanding of things.
He may well be mistaken.
But that does not warrant the flood of abuse directed at him.
In my humble opinion, an apology is due - but not expected.

 

[ember]

Peter, one thing that might help your posts is if you actually referenced the Scriptures you are using. I am aware you do quote the Bible a lot, but others might not be familar with the verses, and sometimes it is nice to look up the verse in context, to see what they mean in the passage and the chapter.

A little less rambling might also help. I think you do have some good thoughts, but trying and be a bit more concise will help those of us who are reading your posts. It also might help you to organize what you are trying to say.

I would not change a thing about Pete's posts

He really does tell it like he sees it

 

[PeterJens]

When all falls silent, you know they have no answer, which for me is the true Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
1 Peter 3:15-16

A christian is a follower of Jesus, nothing more, nothing less. Many would try and either take away from the gospel or add more to it, both of which are wrong. If people cannot discuss what they actually believe it is because they do not believe but dare not declare where they stand for fear of ridicule.

The problem is they make Jesus out to be the object of ridicule rather that the Lord and Saviour of those who believe in Him, for he walks in the light and those who fear the light stay in the darkness. There only resort is to hint at failure without declaring, which is what the defeated always do because anything more is just accepting their position.

 

[ember]

When all falls silent, you know they have no answer, which for me is the true Amen.

Never come down...some will get that

 

[PeterJens]

In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:17-18

 

[PeterJens]

As a side note, there is much to learn from people who have jumped ship, and believe the ship they have jumped from is empty, while the one they have clambered aboard is guided by people who know what they are doing.

What is worrying is one side has thousands of years of history and experience, and the other at best 40 years of experimentation and failure, and the most successful wing, using quick wealth and promises of control over nature to swell their ranks. What happens when people wake up to the fact it is all smoke and feathers, gems and gold dust, wishful thinking and parlour con tricks.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

I've given a great deal of consideration, prayer, and study to how I should leave this "discussion" -- which as I said Thursday has become nothing more than character assassination on the part of those who hold so dearly to their doctrines that they would resort to numerous unbiblical responses to those of us who won't accept what they beleive as truth.

Willie, my brother, you have strongly defended what you believe. That would be admirable if it were not unbiblical in nature. You have accused me of calling you a "non-Christian" because you believe false teachings. I won't go that far as to say that, because it is not my place to make such a determination. What a man teaches, believes, accepts, and lives out in his life is between him and God, and while I believe most Vineyard churches are much more in the Toronto model -- which is to say, sorely misguided if not outright heretical -- I cannot say what your status or position in Christ is, even based on your defense of Toronto and other Pentecostal/Charismatic churches that practice the same or similar kinds of worship.

That said, you have demanded that some of us post videos of what we've spoken of as the heresy of Toronto. I tried to find short clips, and despite the one I did post being from a news organization, one that validly connected the events at Toronto to the Boston church's heresy that was actually in the video, you dismiss it as "non-proof" of the Toronto church's error.

Very well. I leave you with the best evidence I've ever seen of the biblcial fact that Airport Vineyard Church preached a different gospel.

[video=youtube;eYmSoAWgQ44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYmSoAWgQ44[/video]

I'm sure the length of that video will mean you won't watch it. You have already denied its truth, its research, its evidentiary nature. There is nothing I can do about that, expect that I will pray the Holy Spirit reveals to you His truth. I love you in Christ, Willie, but if you see fit to "unfriend" me on CC, I won't be surprised. Disappointed, absolutely, but not surprised.

God bless you in His truth.

 

[Willie-T]

No problem. You have never been in my "friends" list.

 

[Chica]

No problem. You have never been in my "friends" list.

That was an ugly thing to say Willie, what would Jesus say? Would your church members be proud of you or is this how they act too?

 

[Willie-T]

That was an ugly thing to say Willie, what would Jesus say? Would your church members be proud of you or is this how they act too?

Oh, go soak your hot head, and cool off. He has never been on my friend's list, and I simply addressed that as a response to him saying I would probably run to erase his name now. Actually that silly video wouldn't have made me do that, even if he HAD been on my list.

As I keep saying, I couldn't care less about him being against worship as I love it. My problem is with him trying to change "styles" he doesn't like, into claiming a denomination goes about saying there is any other way to God and the kingdom but through Jesus Christ.

Seems many of you have made the "gospel" into something it is not. The GOSPEL is Jesus' good news about Him being king of a kingdom that He is inviting us to be a part of.

 

[PeterJens]

I've given a great deal of consideration, prayer, and study to how I should leave this "discussion"

God bless you in His truth.

The video is interesting and also suprising. Laughter is literally the absurdity of what they are claiming. Nothing is happening, only an experience. An emotional experience without context is just that, nothing more and nothing less.
Are these people being touched by Gods love, his holiness, his forgiveness, their sinfulness, their redemption, No.
Guys are babbling, people falling over. It is without glory or sense, it could just as easily be demons as anything else.

Walking in the Lord is about enhancing mind body and spirit, knowing the glorious nature of our relationship with God, being alive to holiness, love, truth, not this rubbish. The fact this is all latter rain based teaching and outworking, there is little doubt it is not of the Lord in any degree. When people are saying they are moving into the supernatural they are denying the reality all christians are already in the supernatural, that is the Holy Spirit at work in their hearts. You cannot be a christian without the Holy Spirit.

Every vineyard fellowship has to disown this theology and behaviour to be legitimate because it is the source of what many call their work in the Lord. It is also obvious many people who go to vineyard fellowship do not know this origin or its heresy.