Must Shortly Come To Pass

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Amillennialism - denial that an earthly millennium of universal righteousness and peace will either precede or follow the second coming of Jesus Christ
we believe that reign you described is the eternal state, for the redeemed only, new heaven, new earth, new jerusalem.

correct though in saying 'earthly', perhaps better to say 'old earthly':)

we also believe that the Righteousness of Christ and His Peace is experienced by the believer now, who already has eternal life.

and will be complete at the consummation of all things, eternally.

you might hear: "already/not yet"
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
What? Im lost here.

read the first "misunderstanding" he used in his letter.. maybe then you will understand,, if not ask again.





Behold "I come quickly"

As for "take place"


1096. γίνομαι ginŏmai, ghin´-om-ahee; a prol. and mid. form of a prim. verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), i.e. (reflex.) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (lit., fig., intens., etc.):—arise, be assembled, be (-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass). continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, × soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

Strong, J. (2009). Vol. 1: A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (20). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

γίνομαι
(fut γενήσομαι, aor ἐγενόμην, opt 3 sg γένοιτο, inf γενέσθαι, ptc γενόμενος, pf γέγονα and γεγένημαι, aor pass ἐγενήθην, impv 3 sg γενηθήτω, plpf 3 sg ἐγεγόνει and γεγόνει)
a come to exist: 13.80
b be: 13.3
c become: 13.48
d happen: 13.107
e move: 15.1
f belong to: 57.2
g behave: 41.1
h be in a place: 85.6
i come to be in a place: 85.7
j there was: 91.5

1. to become, i. e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2. to become i. q. to come to pass. happen, of events;
3. to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage:
4. to be made, done, finished
5. to become, be made


Thayer, J. H. (1889). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (116). New York: Harper & Brothers.

As you can see, in a few greek guides. It does not always mean happen all at once, It can also mean all which i highlighted in bold. All of which could mean it begins, but the end point is unknown.

Thus the things could have started shortly. and ended later (which revelation goes from that age till the end with a new heaven and new earth.. so even though it started then all the things could continue until the end with the return of Christ, his kingdom, then the new heavens. (after judgment)
.
I get it now. Talking about "to become" or "come into existence"

Yet "tachy" has been left our of your interpretation. Which is greek for SOON, and SWIFT or RAPID.

In other words... TO BECOME.....SOON(tachy)
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
we believe that reign you described is the eternal state, for the redeemed only, new heaven, new earth, new jerusalem.

correct though in saying 'earthly', perhaps better to say 'old earthly':)

we also believe that the Righteousness of Christ and His Peace is experienced by the believer now, who already has eternal life.

and will be complete at the consummation of all things, eternally.

you might hear: "already/not yet"
Okay so you are an amillennialist (is that word correct?). . . I would say that I am a millennialist.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Okay so you are an amillennialist (is that word correct?). . . I would say that I am a millennialist.
oops.....okay at first glance i thought i saw you say you are an amillennialist. a - space millennialist.....lol
got all excited.

but it was millennialist.

that's fine with me.
thank you:)
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Take Satan out of the world now, does that mean our sinful nature vanishes? You guys give Satan too much credit. I'm not saying Satan isn't still around, but who knows, have you seen him lately. Maybe Satan's bound, in the pit, but his minions are still taking orders from him. Scripture doesn't say all demons are in the bottomless pitt, Just the one, Satan. Or perhaps Satan's power to totally deceive the nations has but bound. Perhaps this is the time he'll be loosed.
Nope. but take satan out of the world now. Do you have hitlers, stalins, and all these evil dictators who have ruled a pure evil way?

Scripture states satan is the king of this world. He rules kings.. It would be a mistake to say these things were not satan influenced. His mark is seen all over it.

Most noticably, the hatred of a particular people group.. who have been ostracized, Terrorized, and hated like no other people group on earth.

Of Course scripture also teaches satan has a special hate for these people. so it is no wonder the rulers under his control would try to wipe them off the face of the earth. and has been for 4000 years now

Now take this, and also put Christ in the picture, ruling himself personally in Jerusalem. Remember th epeace God promised the whole world in the OT.. there you have it.


As for demons taking orders from him. He is in the abyss,, Locked in, probably gaurded, The demons have taken orders from him for thousands of years.. ever seen a leaderless army> they are powerless.. Look how they acted when just an apostle of Christ entered their area.. they feared them..
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
ya...a holdover from the judaic mindset the unbelieving jews had - that the Kingdom would be a physical reign with them at the helm.

Who was Premillennial
Papias, Justin Martyr, Aviricius Marcellus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus, Cyprian, Nepos, Commodianus, Lactantius.

But note: ALL of these had one or more of the following problems with their thinking:

Their view was inconsistent with modern premillennialism. So how can they really be used to support modern premillennialism?

They referred to 6,000 years of human history which is wrong. Some of these writers based their entire end-time scheme on this idea — if the foundation is bad the conclusions are also bad. This idea originated with the Jews and was borrowed by some early church fathers.

They believed that the world would end at a certain time and it didn't. Usually this error was in conjunction with the previous one.

End Time Prophecy


going to start a new thread on this....end derailment.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I get it now. Talking about "to become" or "come into existence"

Yet "tachy" has been left our of your interpretation. Which is greek for SOON, and SWIFT or RAPID.

In other words... TO BECOME.....SOON(tachy)

no it was not left out silly.. You messing with me??

To become soon.. could mean to start soon. but does not mean it has to end soon..

It did start soon.. the letters to the seven churches were about those churches.. I have also seen an interpretation where each successive church represnts the literal church at different stages thin history, starting with the first church.. Which actually, if you read them,, it makes total sense, because church history follows the order to a T..

As I said once before, we will not really know until things actually happen, all we can do is guess. Just like the OT people had to guess prophesies until they occured
 
W

weakness

Guest
I think Gods word is way more multifaceted than we can imagine. I think many scriptures and especially prophesy has multiple interpretations, not that they are in opposition ,but that they speak to more than one thing.I am setting on the edge of death or life depending on how you look at it. And for me that day that I die in the flesh will be the day of Christ for me.I can read Rev and see the future fulfillment , but also a fulfillment when Christ came. But I cane also see a fulfillment within myself. The beast, the harlot the judgement Gods new kingdom ect. All within myself When it says "the day of Christ is at hand ,hold out your hand and look at it. How much closer can it be. I think many times I have been stuck on a certain interpretations and dogmas of scripture by ingrained teaching that I wasn't open to see just how full,complete and all knowing Gods word is. I'm not saying just to make something up that s not there.But many scripture are real and true ,past present and future. I hope you do not think I falling into some heresy or something But often times we are afraid to see something new ,WE feel it deception or heresy. I have never seen Gods word contradict itself. When Jesus opened the eyes of his disciples to all the scripture that spoke of him ,these thing were there all along but unrevealed Only the Holy spirit in his time can reveal the scripture to us . Like it was said to Danial his prophesy was sealed up till the time of the end .There are many things sealed up in the scripture still That will be revealed in Gods prefect time.
 
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
0
The Tribulation has not happened yet or we would be in New Jerusalem by now. Matthew 24 is clear that the rapture is after the Tribulation. History would have told us if the trib. had happened. There is no way to miss it.
 

TomL

Banned
Feb 26, 2013
151
0
0
LOL, welcome to CC TomL... bet you didn't think about having to explain, give rebuttal, give proof texts and do all over again 3 times.
Especially when it's a total waste of time, especially when there are those who just want to argue for argument sake, and then say I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not going to do that anymore. I will continue to try to find people that want to learn instead of tearing a doctrine apart that they know little or nothing about. Besides, I have said it before, I don't have all the answers. But that's not good enough. I don't see anyone else admitting that they don't everything. But, while in this flesh, I am limited, like seeing through dark glass. I only know what I know, and I freely share what I know with people who are truly truthseekers, and willing to learn.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
Okay so you are an amillennialist (is that word correct?). . . I would say that I am a millennialist.
Actually Amillennialist are millennialist too, Amillennialism is not the correct term for the view. Amillennialism means no millennium, when in fact Amillennialist believe we are actually living in it. So the correct term is realized millennialist.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
Do I believe in a future return of Christ? No.

Ecclesiastes 1.4 states that a generation comes, a generation goes, but the earth lasts forever.

In Genesis 8.21 it is written, "And Jehovah smelled the sweet savor; and Jehovah said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake, for that imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done." - ASV

I think this establishes that the earth an all it's inhabitants shall be around forever.
Psalms 1:4-6 KJV
(4) The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
(5) Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
(6) For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

These verses tell us that the ungodly shall not continue for ever, they shall perish. If the earth shall be around for ever as you say then the Bible contradicts itself. Also the word for ever does not mean eternal, it means as long as it lasts.

Jonah 2:6 KJV

(6) I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

It says here that it was for ever yet Jonah was only in the whale 3 days.
 

TomL

Banned
Feb 26, 2013
151
0
0
Now that I put the troublemakers on my ignore list, perhaps we can discuss this in a calm rational way. And if you want me to reply to to your questions and comments make sure they are on point.
 
G

GRA

Guest
[SUP]25[/SUP] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. [SUP]26[/SUP] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; [SUP]27[/SUP] And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. [SUP]28[/SUP] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [SUP]29[/SUP] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. ~ John 5:25-29

These verses are referring to the Great White Throne Judgment resurrection.

Does this mean that it came to pass the same hour that Jesus said these words?

Of course not.

;)
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
[SUP]25[/SUP] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. [SUP]26[/SUP] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; [SUP]27[/SUP] And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. [SUP]28[/SUP] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [SUP]29[/SUP] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. ~ John 5:25-29

These verses are referring to the Great White Throne Judgment resurrection.

Does this mean that it came to pass the same hour that Jesus said these words?

Of course not.

;)
What Jesus is stating is that it's true right now, while Jesus is speaking, but would become clearer later,after his death and resurrection and kingdom arrival on Pentecost.. This is talking about eternal life.
Verse 24 confirms this.
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Verse 28 says "for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice."

This is referring to the judgement. Note that it says "a time is coming", but not Now like verse 25. This means it will happen at some point in the future.