Mysticism & righteousness
- Thread starter PeterJens
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Ariel I am mortal. This is more about exploring ideas from particular starting points. After going through them and hearing others often different things come out, and I will fail to encompass it all. It is why patience, forgiveness, love really do work. And edifying? Somethings are going to be very brutal. I know where people are and I have met some really violent dangerous people, who given the right situation I would be dead. All I can do is "be bold and strong for the Lord our God is with us." Amen
A
Sounds rather condemning, especially when it was your lack of clarity in defining mystic that caused the confusion.
If you said mystics use the Bible like a spellbook to weasel promises from God and apply it to their lives or they are modern day witches and mediums...folks wouldn't misunderstand what you are referring to.
Instead you used vague language and don't clarify what spirituality means and if you even believe in a spiritual realtor spiritual warfare and folks misunderstand you.
Then instead if clarifying, you feel attack and attack and lash out at others.
Seriously this is how you display Christ grace and gentleness?
If you said mystics use the Bible like a spellbook to weasel promises from God and apply it to their lives or they are modern day witches and mediums...folks wouldn't misunderstand what you are referring to.
Instead you used vague language and don't clarify what spirituality means and if you even believe in a spiritual realtor spiritual warfare and folks misunderstand you.
Then instead if clarifying, you feel attack and attack and lash out at others.
Seriously this is how you display Christ grace and gentleness?
That ONE TIME call was simply a visible reenactment of THE PROMISED SON.
And those who claim to "know god" but do NOT grow in the knowledge of THE TRUTH of GOD, will very likely believe that they were called to do things that actually are BLASPHEMOUS and MISREPRESENT the "god" they claim to "know"?
They DON'T!
And those who claim to "know god" but do NOT grow in the knowledge of THE TRUTH of GOD, will very likely believe that they were called to do things that actually are BLASPHEMOUS and MISREPRESENT the "god" they claim to "know"?
They DON'T!
A
What do you think it means to be born again? If not to have a new clean heart that seems God's will and is filled with His love?
And salvation based on circumcision and old covenant laws is the heresy of the Judaizers. Paul refuted them and calls their teaching another gospel. Do you hold to their gospel?
From our past conversations I would,have said no, but now i am,not sure of your beliefs.
And salvation based on circumcision and old covenant laws is the heresy of the Judaizers. Paul refuted them and calls their teaching another gospel. Do you hold to their gospel?
From our past conversations I would,have said no, but now i am,not sure of your beliefs.
Last edited by a moderator:
A
Conversational pitfalls you need to make note of with your speech.
If your words can be misunderstood on an online forum, they will be.
You have to have the same patience and love to explain what you mean and not assume that if people question your words they question your salvation. In turn you shouldn't imply by your words that you question their salvation.
Sometimes it's just a misunderstanding but when you react defensively, you cause others to react in the same manner.
If you don't see what I mean, pray and re-read your words because God will help you see and find words to convey what you mean without being misunderstood so often,
At least he helped me.
If your words can be misunderstood on an online forum, they will be.
You have to have the same patience and love to explain what you mean and not assume that if people question your words they question your salvation. In turn you shouldn't imply by your words that you question their salvation.
Sometimes it's just a misunderstanding but when you react defensively, you cause others to react in the same manner.
If you don't see what I mean, pray and re-read your words because God will help you see and find words to convey what you mean without being misunderstood so often,
At least he helped me.
Yeah...I figured it out afterwards...
You don't sound lost at all...in fact, you are right on topic.
My post, however, does appear to sound confusing with regards to Abraham's call to sacrifice his son...I left that part out in post 108 that the ONE TIME call to Abraham to sacrifice his son was simply a visible reenactment of THE PROMISED SON.
And those who claim to "know god" but do NOT grow in the knowledge of THE TRUTH of GOD, will very likely believe that they were called to do things that actually are BLASPHEMOUS and MISREPRESENT the "god" they claim to "know"?
They DON'T! They are actually listening to the voice/spirit of a liar who's work is to kill and steal...
And in the end, many will think they are listening to GOD and will "go out" from THE TRUTH...
You don't sound lost at all...in fact, you are right on topic.
My post, however, does appear to sound confusing with regards to Abraham's call to sacrifice his son...I left that part out in post 108 that the ONE TIME call to Abraham to sacrifice his son was simply a visible reenactment of THE PROMISED SON.
And those who claim to "know god" but do NOT grow in the knowledge of THE TRUTH of GOD, will very likely believe that they were called to do things that actually are BLASPHEMOUS and MISREPRESENT the "god" they claim to "know"?
They DON'T! They are actually listening to the voice/spirit of a liar who's work is to kill and steal...
And in the end, many will think they are listening to GOD and will "go out" from THE TRUTH...
A
Got to go.
May God help shine a light into all our lives and reveal His truth. May we speak with wisdom from above which is true,gentle, peace loving and kind. May we be ambassadors for our Heavenly father and speak life giving waters into the lives of people we,meet today online and in real life. Thank you Lord for your many blessings. Thank you for allowing us to be born again in You. Thank you for your grace in giving us faith to walk with you Lord. Help us Lord. in Jesus holy name we pray,amen.
May God help shine a light into all our lives and reveal His truth. May we speak with wisdom from above which is true,gentle, peace loving and kind. May we be ambassadors for our Heavenly father and speak life giving waters into the lives of people we,meet today online and in real life. Thank you Lord for your many blessings. Thank you for allowing us to be born again in You. Thank you for your grace in giving us faith to walk with you Lord. Help us Lord. in Jesus holy name we pray,amen.
You seem to contradict yourself here. An encounter with God is not some strange force that acts on us in undefinable ways as if we were totally clueless as to the changes God is working in our lives. A sentient being who encounters God may be shocked out of their natural selves to experience the Other in such a profound way but that is something that is wholly supported by Scripture. God promises to reveal Himself. We recognize His voice. The unmistakable authenticity of such an encounter assures us that we are His. He says nothing can snatch us out of His hand. People having supernatural experiences with a supernatural Being makes people uncomfortable. It cannot be controlled nor fully grasped by those not experiencing the same. Trying to turn it into something else is what the natural man does.
um, well.... the terms of the covenant(s) of works had to be fulfilled.
God made those covenants, including the Adamic and Sinaitic, with man, and the terms were non-negotiable.
do this and live... do this and die.
in the covenant of redemption, or grace, the terms are unilaterally fulfilled by God in Christ for all who believe.
(Rom 5:12-20 or thereabouts
)
God made those covenants, including the Adamic and Sinaitic, with man, and the terms were non-negotiable.
do this and live... do this and die.
in the covenant of redemption, or grace, the terms are unilaterally fulfilled by God in Christ for all who believe.
(Rom 5:12-20 or thereabouts
)
A
um, well.... the terms of the covenant(s) of works had to be fulfilled.
God made those covenants, including the Adamic and Sinaitic, with man, and the terms were non-negotiable.
do this and live... do this and die.
in the covenant of redemption, or grace, the terms are unilaterally fulfilled by God in Christ for all who believe.
(Rom 5:12-20 or thereabouts)
God made those covenants, including the Adamic and Sinaitic, with man, and the terms were non-negotiable.
do this and live... do this and die.
in the covenant of redemption, or grace, the terms are unilaterally fulfilled by God in Christ for all who believe.
(Rom 5:12-20 or thereabouts
)
Yes Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and replaced it with the new convenant which is not based upon the same tenets and conditions of sacrifice like in the old testament. Instead the new covenant is based upon being born again and having God write His laws upon our,hearts.
It's no use. I can't stay away. I'm supposed to be here with you guys right now.
Changing the name from hyper grace to mystics is not going to help! No one can be placed under these titles because all of us are too varied and different in which points of any organized doctrine of any group we do and do not accept or believe. You have to deal with people one on one. To do anything else takes away their uniqueness and their dignity as people. This is what prejudice does. It gives a whole group of people a single story.
Have you read any of the writings of true mystics, peter? Sermons on The Song of Songs? Dark Night of the Soul/Saint John of the Cross? Bernard Clairvaux? Bother Lawrence? The Goad of Love/Walter Hilton? These are just a few. You will not find doctrinal arguments in their writings because they have moved beyond that into living a crucified life. Their longing is for holiness of heart before God. They've gone beyond what most of us have. They've left it behind. They want holiness so they can praise God WORTHILY. They have seen that there is something beyond "being saved." They don't believe Gods purpose was to save them from hell. They believe His purpose in saving them was to make them more like Christ. You won't find them at the places a lot of christians go. They live separated from the world because they have died to it. You won't find them at a football game, screaming in delight at touchdowns. You won't find them hiring designers to make their home look beautiful. Not that these things are something they would rant and rave and condemn others over. You just won't find THEM there. They won't look or talk like all of the other christians you see. They will look very odd to others. They won't defend themselves. They won't argue over doctrine but they can help those who have begun to die to self. The very church they have been in has often treated them harshly and not understood them. The only ones who understand them are others who have begun on this way of the crucified life. You won't find them defending voraciously any man or teacher, but you will find them listening and taking away only what parts of what another man says that will help them to die more so they can please God more. They understand that to choose this road of self-abegnation is hard and painful. They assume that anyone who might be even a little interested in what they have to say has already begun in this way. They would prefer that theological doctors and debaters not even read what they have written because they know it won't help them or anyone else for them to read it. In fact, anyone not having begun on this way will become bored very quickly by their writing. If something they read helps them to die more, they rejoice in it and thank God for giving the book or sermon to them. I can give you a more extensive list of writings that are considered mystical if you want to see that what I am saying is true. You won't find them rejoicing in being righteous or holy. You will find them rejoicing at great difficulties and struggles within themselves because they have seen it makes them more like their Lord. They have understood that the path to growing holiness is death to their wants, desires, defense of self, personal comfort, possessions, etc. Self fulfillment to them is contrary to what the world thinks of as self fulfillment. Self fulfillment to them is dying.
Changing the name from hyper grace to mystics is not going to help! No one can be placed under these titles because all of us are too varied and different in which points of any organized doctrine of any group we do and do not accept or believe. You have to deal with people one on one. To do anything else takes away their uniqueness and their dignity as people. This is what prejudice does. It gives a whole group of people a single story.
Have you read any of the writings of true mystics, peter? Sermons on The Song of Songs? Dark Night of the Soul/Saint John of the Cross? Bernard Clairvaux? Bother Lawrence? The Goad of Love/Walter Hilton? These are just a few. You will not find doctrinal arguments in their writings because they have moved beyond that into living a crucified life. Their longing is for holiness of heart before God. They've gone beyond what most of us have. They've left it behind. They want holiness so they can praise God WORTHILY. They have seen that there is something beyond "being saved." They don't believe Gods purpose was to save them from hell. They believe His purpose in saving them was to make them more like Christ. You won't find them at the places a lot of christians go. They live separated from the world because they have died to it. You won't find them at a football game, screaming in delight at touchdowns. You won't find them hiring designers to make their home look beautiful. Not that these things are something they would rant and rave and condemn others over. You just won't find THEM there. They won't look or talk like all of the other christians you see. They will look very odd to others. They won't defend themselves. They won't argue over doctrine but they can help those who have begun to die to self. The very church they have been in has often treated them harshly and not understood them. The only ones who understand them are others who have begun on this way of the crucified life. You won't find them defending voraciously any man or teacher, but you will find them listening and taking away only what parts of what another man says that will help them to die more so they can please God more. They understand that to choose this road of self-abegnation is hard and painful. They assume that anyone who might be even a little interested in what they have to say has already begun in this way. They would prefer that theological doctors and debaters not even read what they have written because they know it won't help them or anyone else for them to read it. In fact, anyone not having begun on this way will become bored very quickly by their writing. If something they read helps them to die more, they rejoice in it and thank God for giving the book or sermon to them. I can give you a more extensive list of writings that are considered mystical if you want to see that what I am saying is true. You won't find them rejoicing in being righteous or holy. You will find them rejoicing at great difficulties and struggles within themselves because they have seen it makes them more like their Lord. They have understood that the path to growing holiness is death to their wants, desires, defense of self, personal comfort, possessions, etc. Self fulfillment to them is contrary to what the world thinks of as self fulfillment. Self fulfillment to them is dying.