NEW JERUSALEM...

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Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
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#21
Will you be coming down with the New Jerusalem, too, sinless? After all you claim to be leading a sinless life now on earth. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE)

In God's eyes, under Christ's blood, all people who accept Christ as their personal savior are sinless.
Yes, but on earth we still mess up and sin sometimes. We are capable of sin in the flesh. In heaven we will be incapable of sinning.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#22
Yes, but on earth we still mess up and sin sometimes. We are capable of sin in the flesh. In heaven we will be incapable of sinning.
This ii true, however we are also capable through Holy Spirit to choose not to sin here and now
 
Jan 24, 2013
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#23
If you believe sin to still be things like being gay, eating pork, going to church on sundays, not believing in a trinity, etc then this will never change. This isn't sin.
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
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#24
This ii true, however we are also capable through Holy Spirit to choose not to sin here and now
Right, but to be sinless like you claim you are is to NEVER sin. That is a lie.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#25
A man's spirit ascending to heaven signifies that he has been lifted up in his spirit and away from the lower animal state to which sin made man's spirit fall.

That is why at Hebrews 12:23 it is "to the spirits of just men made perfect" that we draw close. Holiness is an ascent to heavenly places, matter not where the body that houses that spirit lives in a physical sense.

Isaiah 66:1 "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"

Thus you can stand right here on God's footstool and by means of your heavenly risen spirit be standing before God's throne.

Psalms 99:5 "Exalt ye the LORD our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy."

Psalms 132:7 "We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool."

*** *** *** ***

Many are in for a fascinating revelation concerning how this really works.

We must understand that even here now our governments are said to rule in a spiritual heaven fallen as Satan from God's heaven. This is why there are so many stories of multiple stages to heaven, such as Paul saying he was caught up to the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:2) I will explain why the third in a moment.

(Leviticus 26:18-19 "And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass.."............................
Leviticus 26:23 "And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.")

This was the nations who rule in a sort of heaven, delivery God's justice upon his people to punish the unrepentant and purge out the repentant: Deuteronomy 28:23-26 "And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away."

Why did Paul say the third heaven, then? 2 Corinthians 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

I used to think that was because there is the firmament (expanse of the heavens where birds fly), the celestial heavens, and then God's heaven, but today I see it just a bit differently. All three of these heavens are spiritual.

Man's governments rule in the lowest or first heaven and unknown to them Satan rules over them in the second heaven.

God of course rules in the third or highest heaven as he is greater than all and we only illusion ourselves that we rule in the lower heavens unless he allows it. That is even and especially true of Satan ruling in a heaven which rules over man's governments.

And in the end all will be made to know as was made Nebuchadnezzar, , Daniel 4:32 "... know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will."

Daniel 4:17 "This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."

I will resist saying much more here, as we all must understand this in our time as we are able, that we not be gutted by the overwhelming shock of the difference as to how we saw it as babes.
 
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Feb 9, 2010
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#26
The New Jerusalem is the place that Jesus went to prepare for the saints that He told to His disciples.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea(Revelation 21:1).

The Bible does not say that the New Jerusalem comes down to earth and the Bible says that the old heaven and earth shall pass away and not be remembered anymore,and God said He is making a new heaven and earth.The old earth will be gone before the New Jerusalem comes down.

The old heaven and earth has been tainted with sin and must be done away with.

The New Jerusalem will be a place where sin has never been and sin will never be,so the New Jerusalem is not a renovated earth.

It will be spiritual although there is the tree of life there and a river but no more sea.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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#27
The New Jerusalem is the place that Jesus went to prepare for the saints that He told to His disciples.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea(Revelation 21:1).

The Bible does not say that the New Jerusalem comes down to earth and the Bible says that the old heaven and earth shall pass away and not be remembered anymore,and God said He is making a new heaven and earth.The old earth will be gone before the New Jerusalem comes down.

The old heaven and earth has been tainted with sin and must be done away with.

The New Jerusalem will be a place where sin has never been and sin will never be,so the New Jerusalem is not a renovated earth.

It will be spiritual although there is the tree of life there and a river but no more sea.
​Scripture please. I don't believe a word of your false teaching.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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#28
Jesus will reign on this earth. His throne will be in Jerusalem. He will rule over people in these flesh bodies. We will reign with Him, meaning those who are raptured. Yeah I know many don't believe that, doesn't change the fact that it's true.
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
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#30
Sinless, I know you sin because you are a mere man still trapped in a sinful flesh and blood body. When you go to Heaven you will be able to not sin, but while on earth, you will still commit sin from time to time.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#31
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

I suppose that is the key to the next two verses.
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#32
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

I suppose that is the key to the next two verses.
I wonder about there being no more sea. I would love to go fishing or have a swim at the beach on the new earth, but then again my desires will probably be a lot different then.
 
Apr 9, 2013
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#33
The New Jerusalem is the place that Jesus went to prepare for the saints that He told to His disciples.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea(Revelation 21:1).

The Bible does not say that the New Jerusalem comes down to earth Yes it does. Rev. 21:2 I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem coming out of heaven from GOD...

and the Bible says that the old heaven and earth shall pass away and not be remembered anymore,and God said He is making a new heaven and earth.The old earth will be gone before the New Jerusalem comes down.

The old heaven and earth has been tainted with sin and must be done away with.Yes this is true, but as Peter tells us 2 Peter 3:6-7 The first earth was judged by water, (same planet though) as will this earth be judged by fire. YAH is not going to start over from scratch, He will burn this planet, purifying it and restoring it back to what He intended from the beginning.

The New Jerusalem will be a place where sin has never been and sin will never be,so the New Jerusalem is not a renovated earth.

It will be spiritual although there is the tree of life there and a river but no more sea.
Agreed, the oceans as we have now, will not be. It will be mostly land.
 
Apr 9, 2013
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#34
Jesus will reign on this earth. His throne will be in Jerusalem. He will rule over people in these flesh bodies. We will reign with Him, meaning those who are raptured. Yeah I know many don't believe that, doesn't change the fact that it's true.

What you have here is not the same as what this thread is about. We'll just agree to disagree about the rapture. But scripture doesn't say the raptured will rule and reign with Yeshua. Rev. 20:4-5 says that those who refuse to take the mark, worship the beast or his image and are beheaded for it, will rule and reign with Yeshua for 1000 yrs. and that they will be a part of the first resurrection.

The New Jerusalem comes after all this happens.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#35
Sinless, I know you sin because you are a mere man still trapped in a sinful flesh and blood body. When you go to Heaven you will be able to not sin, but while on earth, you will still commit sin from time to time.
Im not a mere man at all, I am a man that has been transformed by the indwelling Spirit of God Himself
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,029
107
63
#36
Rev. 21:2-3
Then I, John, saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from GOD, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of GOD is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. GOD Himself will be with them and be their GOD.

I have heard a few different thoughts on this. Since I have gotten into a couple hard discussions with a few on here. I thought this would be fun to get into.
I would like to know other peoples thoughts on just what they believe the New Jerusalem is, is it spiritual only, physical only, both?
Do you believe it will literally come down to earth as it says, or no?

Anyone?
The tabernacle the one that God pitched which is in heaven is coming down out of
Hebrews 8:2a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
So I see it as the one in heaven right now as coming down because as chapter 8 goes on to say if Christ where here today
Hebrews 8:4For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;

So when Christ does come down to earth it is necessary the the true tabernacle come with him with all the Saints in him that know they are by Faith in Christ and have been transefered from death to life awaiting for this great and precious day

So tell me you all where is the true place of worship? And what is the only way to worship?
And so therefore are our Churches here today built by God or man?
Just some meat to eat and see truth between the world and God. God is emnity to the world and this wrold emnity towards God. This world still to this day masquerades as being Good when still to this day there is only one good and this is the Father
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,029
107
63
#37
Im not a mere man at all, I am a man that has been transformed by the indwelling Spirit of God Himself
Iam glad to hear this because this is the only way one can truly serve God and that is in the Spirit the born again Spirit that one learns to abide in by Faith in the operation of Father, and as I ahve said before I have only found the way that can be acomplished is by excercising Faith in Christ daily. Daily dieing to self and being therefore alive in the Spirit of God where no sin can ever occur. The key being dead to sin by beleif without a doubt allowing no hypocrisy to beset one anymore. Dead to sin and therefore we follow the Holy Ghost more and more becoming mature as God said we would because we belive and God is Merciful. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to me as I write this
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#38
The New Jerusalem is the place that Jesus went to prepare for the saints that He told to His disciples.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea(Revelation 21:1).

The Bible does not say that the New Jerusalem comes down to earth and the Bible says that the old heaven and earth shall pass away and not be remembered anymore,and God said He is making a new heaven and earth.The old earth will be gone before the New Jerusalem comes down.

The old heaven and earth has been tainted with sin and must be done away with.

The New Jerusalem will be a place where sin has never been and sin will never be,so the New Jerusalem is not a renovated earth.

It will be spiritual although there is the tree of life there and a river but no more sea.
Just where will this new Jerusalem be then?


And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev. 21:1,2)


Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (Rev. 3:12)

When the new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven - where do you think it will rest. . .or do you think it will be suspended in air? Just wondering what you think.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#39
Rev. 21:2-3
Then I, John, saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from GOD, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of GOD is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. GOD Himself will be with them and be their GOD.

I have heard a few different thoughts on this. Since I have gotten into a couple hard discussions with a few on here. I thought this would be fun to get into.
I would like to know other peoples thoughts on just what they believe the New Jerusalem is, is it spiritual only, physical only, both?
Do you believe it will literally come down to earth as it says, or no?

Anyone?
I love how deep all your questions are:] I believe( now i could be wrong so plz excuse me if i am) new jerusalem is the bride whom Jesus took before the tribulation. I believe this is speaking of the lords second coming when in the tribulation all have lost hope. this bride I believe are all of us who were counted worthy to escape the tribulation, i believe we are going to be empowered solders of christ
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
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#40
I have thought on it many times, but I stop at the realization that New Jerusalem is the capital of the Israel of Yahweh, God, and it is the seat of all citizens of the Kingdom, or should I say subjects?