No trust in Creation...no trust in Genesis....no trust in Scriptures...

[StoneThrower]

Alright lets say that God made things to look more mature. But how does that explain the "scars of the past"?

Let me explain. Even though Adam and Eve would be made with fully grown bodies, and appear mature, there would still be signs.....evidence.......that they are not normal adults. For example, they would not have memories of being a child and growing up. There should also not be any scars, or signs of wear/tear, etc (there are many ways in finding out how long someone has lived).

However when it comes to earth's history, we do seem to finds scars.....literally. Let me just use areas where impact craters are at. There is evidence that in its history, earth has been struck many times by asteroids. Leaving huge "scars" on earth's surface, and one of the reasons why this shows signs of an ancient past, is because if the earth is 6,000 thousand years old, and humanity as been here since the dawn of the world, then we would have felt the consequences of said strikes, and likely would not be here.

God making everything appear "old" also does not explain the fact that stars/suns across the universe are at various stages, some are younger then others, some are older, and some are even dying.

If God made the world look old, but it is really only 6,000 years old, how does that explain the fact that we can see stars that are farther then then 6,000 light years away?

I agree that if God wanted to, he could make things look older then what they already are, however that explanation does not make since with the fact that there are "scars" or "recordings" within the universe/earth that show an ancient past.

Of course if God wanted to, he could have put "scars" on Adam and Eve, give them memories of a life that never happened, to a point that not only would they appear as adults, but all evidence/techniques used on them would give us the conclusion that they are really natural Adults who started as a baby and grew up, though God would know the truth.

In fact God could make it so that the universe is only 6,000 years old, and everything that points to an older universe/earth, even the "scars", are all intentionally put there for reasons.

Maybe the world was created last Thursday, and everything about the past, even the things older and younger then 6,000 years, even our memories....are just fabrications

God would certainly have the power to do that, though I don't think he did because I don't believe God is trying to deceive us.

Hi,
I am not trying to change what you believe, I just don't personally buy it, nor do I think its God honoring.
Theology is more important than just chat room debate or pot head philosophy. These glasses each of us wear will effect how we live and handle and respond to the scripture. For example many people don't have a theology of suffering and when the first Storm hits they curse God or get devastated because of a lack of understanding Gods sovereignty.

I don't think God created the world mature to deceive anyone, its not about us, I just think he did. Maybe earth is the center of your universe, and you cant figure out star distance by mans measurements of light years but no one ever said it was Gods. By the way answers in Genesis has the answer to that for you.

I think the point you missed was Gods ways are not our ways, He doesn't use mans logic. I have no dog in this fight but when you all gather on a band wagon to attack someone that believes in Gods word literally you look just as foolish as you accuse us of being. If you compromise on 6 literal days what else in Gods word isn't true. How will you answer the unbeliever when he ask you that question? Most importantly is your position glorifying to God? Thats the question you need to ask your self whats more important my rational or glorifying God. Compromising His word, I fail to see how thats glorifying and whats the chief end of man?

 

[JackH]

Now, I prefer to see an atheist in the forum.

That is my testimony! I was a science student in a secular university when I started seeing holes in the theory of evolution, at least as taught to undergrads.

So this is a warning, if I see you taking the name of Jesus Christ in vain, I will report you.

I’m not an atheist. That is bearing false witness to call me such. So this is a warning, if you do it again I’m going to report you. Lol.

I did not take the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Apparently you don’t understand what it means to do so.

But let’s get back to the topic.

What are the holes you see in theory of evolution you referred to?

You might start with your definition of evolution.

Please don’t copy and paste some nonsense from Answers in Genesis or Creation Ministries International, or give links for same.

 

[tourist]

The above is the brilliant (cough) statement that ended your first post that started this thread.

What evidence are you claiming for that statement?

I mean, I could guess, but I want to hear it from you. Or anybody else who agrees with you.

What evidence do you have that the sun is going to rise in the east tomorrow morning?

 

[tourist]

I’m not an atheist. That is bearing false witness to call me such. So this is a warning, if you do it again I’m going to report you. Lol.

I did not take the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Apparently you don’t understand what it means to do so.

But let’s get back to the topic.

What are the holes you see in theory of evolution you referred to?

You might start with your definition of evolution.

Please don’t copy and paste some nonsense from Answers in Genesis or Creation Ministries International, or give links for same.

She most certainly does understand the meaning of taking the Lord's name in vain. And I do as well.

 

[JackH]

The powers that be lamely covered up finding soft tissue in dinosaur bones by claiming iron rich blood preserved it....for 60 million years.

And your source for this statement is? You are implying that fraud or some such thing was committed. Was anyone charged with a crime or sued? For example, like Ken Ham was sued by Creation Ministries International for defamation (as per Tintin in post #500).

I don’t see what, exactly, this has to do with your statement that, “Anyone who professes faith in Jesus should oppose the satanic believe in evolution.”

I was anticipating an answer more along the lines of that evolutionary theory caused the Holocaust.

 

[JackH]

She most certainly does understand the meaning of taking the Lord's name in vain. And I do as well.

Well, why don't you start a thread about it then? As in, "What does it mean to take the Lord's name in vain?"

This thread has enough tangents in it.

 

[tourist]

Well, why don't you start a thread about it then? As in, "What does it mean to take the Lord's name in vain?"

This thread has enough tangents in it.

I actually like the word, 'tangent'. The rest of what you write is garbage. I believe that you are confusing this word with 'tantrum'.

 

[JackH]

The issue is not old earth vs young earth but this: Can fallible, sinful man be in authority over the Word of God?

A “young-Earth” view admittedly receives the scoffing from a majority of the scientists. But Paul warned us in 1 Corinthians 8:2 (KJV), “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.” Compared to what God knows, we know next to nothing! This is why we should be so careful to let God speak to us through His Word, and not try to impose our ideas on God’s Word.

It’s also interesting to note that this verse is found in the same passage where Paul warns that “knowledge puffeth up.” Academic pride is found throughout our culture.

Therefore, many Christian leaders would rather believe the world’s fallible academics, than the simple clear words of the Bible.

Once you have told people to accept man’s dating methods, and thus should not take the first chapters of Genesis as they are written, you have effectively undermined the Bible. Young people leave the Christian faith in droves when you allow this to happen without giving an answer they can understand. An answer that can be found in the Bible.

Jesus was a young-earth creationist. Jesus consistently treated the miracle accounts of the Old Testament as straightforward, truthful, historical accounts (e.g., creation of Adam, Noah and the Flood, Lot and his wife in Sodom, Moses and the manna, and Jonah in the fish). He continually affirmed the authority of Scripture over men’s ideas and traditions (Matthew 15:1–9). In Mark 10:6 we have the clearest (but not the only) statement showing that Jesus was a young-earth creationist. He teaches that Adam and Eve were made at the “beginning of creation,” not billions of years after the beginning, as would be the case if the universe were really billions of years old. So, if Jesus was a young-earth creationist, then how can His faithful followers have any other view?

Incidentally, copying and pasting information like you have done here is generally a copyright violation.

 

[JackH]

I actually like the word, 'tangent'. The rest of what you write is garbage. I believe that you are confusing this word with 'tantrum'.

Tangent, as in digression. Yes, I can tell you are having a tantrum. I apologize for striking a nerve.

But could we please get back to the topic of this thread?

I think I have discovered the missing link. It's a report monkey.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No where have I limited God's power. I said I don't think he made things appear older then they really are, never said he could not do that. After all anything is possible with God.

why do you not think this?

If God places living things on earth, He would HAVE to make things with an appearance of Age would he not?

This is the only logical conclusion.

 

[megaman125]

And you thought that all up on your own?

Of course not. You copy and pasted most of it from the Answers in Genesis website.

I don't think any of you YECs have an original thought of your own. You copy and paste or paraphrase from YEC sites like Answers in Genesis.

Right, because believing the earth is billions of years old without question as you're told to do in the public education system is having original thoughts. All you do is repeat the thoughts of old earth believers.

 

[Fishbait]

And you thought that all up on your own?

Of course not. You copy and pasted most of it from the Answers in Genesis website.

I don't think any of you YECs have an original thought of your own. You copy and paste or paraphrase from YEC sites like Answers in Genesis.

Your hate for the truth from any Christian web site is sad. Many times we all 'copy and paste' from places that we agree with. Often we 'copy and paste' from the Bible. Why can't you surrender your hate to Jesus and quit depending on you own "original thought"? That same 'orginal thought' that causes you to go up against the KJV version of the Bible . Bless you JackH and may the Lord change your heart.

 

[tourist]

Tangent, as in digression. Yes, I can tell you are having a tantrum. I apologize for striking a nerve.

But could we please get back to the topic of this thread?

I think I have discovered the missing link. It's a report monkey.

This topic encompasses everything in life. I prefer specifics. No tantrum here on my part as I do not have time to play silly games.

Welcome to the monkey house. You are not alone.

 

[Fishbait]

I would argue Jesus knew full well they were allegorical stories. Scientific dating methods aren't just 'chosen' by people as some matter of belief, they are backed up by science, fact, testable experiment, verifiable mathematics and proof.

Besides, what Paul says was said by Socrates (also a Greek) hundreds of years before Paul. 'I know that I know nothing'. Don't you actually realize that institutionalized, popular Christianity borrows from the same academic-types you slate?

There's truth in lots of places outside the bible.

And the fact is, every single dating method (outside of Scripture) is based on fallible assumptions. There are literally hundreds of dating tools. However, whatever dating method one uses, assumptions must be made about the past. Not one dating method man devises is absolute! Even though 90% of all dating methods give dates far younger than evolutionists require, none of these can be used in an absolute sense either.

Allegory is a beautifully artistic way of explaining spiritual matters in easily understood terms. Through the Bible’s allegories, God helps us understand difficult concepts through a more relatable context. He also reveals Himself as the Great Storyteller, working through history to foreshadow and carry out His plan. We can rejoice that we have a God who addresses us in ways we can understand and who has given us symbols and allegories to remind us of Himself.

I hope you "actually" believe that Jesus was a young-earth creationist. He wasn't using an allegory when he talked about a young earth.

 

[JackH]

Many times we all 'copy and paste' from places that we agree with. Often we 'copy and paste' from the Bible.

That same 'orginal thought' that causes you to go up against the KJV version of the Bible

Copying and pasting from the KJV Bible is not illegal. The KJV is not copyrighted.

What you did is most likely a copyright violation.

Go up against the KJV? That is your source for absolute truth, the KJV?

 

[Tintin]

I don't agree with JackH on much but you shouldn't be copying and pasting from other sites. You link to the website content but not copy and paste said content to here or any other website.

 

[JackH]

Right, because believing the earth is billions of years old without question as you're told to do in the public education system is having original thoughts. All you do is repeat the thoughts of old earth believers.

Let me fix that statement for you, as it applies to you and many others here:

Right, because believing the earth is 6,000 years old without question as you're told to by Ken Ham and clones is having original thoughts. All you do is repeat the thoughts of young earth creationists.

 

[christianperson91]

If God places living things on earth, He would HAVE to make things with an appearance of Age would he not?

This is the only logical conclusion.

Now your the one putting limits on God's power. He does not HAVE to create the 1st life on earth in a mature state. And it is not the only logical conclusion.

 

[Esanta]

What evidence do you have that the sun is going to rise in the east tomorrow morning?

The rising of the sun is to do with Earth's spin, which is towards the East, therefore, the sun will always rise in the East.

 

[Esanta]

And the fact is, every single dating method (outside of Scripture) is based on fallible assumptions. There are literally hundreds of dating tools. However, whatever dating method one uses, assumptions must be made about the past. Not one dating method man devises is absolute! Even though 90% of all dating methods give dates far younger than evolutionists require, none of these can be used in an absolute sense either.

Allegory is a beautifully artistic way of explaining spiritual matters in easily understood terms. Through the Bible’s allegories, God helps us understand difficult concepts through a more relatable context. He also reveals Himself as the Great Storyteller, working through history to foreshadow and carry out His plan. We can rejoice that we have a God who addresses us in ways we can understand and who has given us symbols and allegories to remind us of Himself.

I hope you "actually" believe that Jesus was a young-earth creationist. He wasn't using an allegory when he talked about a young earth.

You say that dating methods are made on assumptions about the past, but they aren't. Dating elements is actually fairly simple. An element, for instance carbon, is always carbon, unless that atom is split and it becomes freed energy, or unless it is fused into another element. So, the properties of carbon are always going to be the properties of carbon, until that carbon is no longer carbon.

Dating methods work on this principle. Certain elements are unable to fuse into heavier elements, mostly radioactive ones. Instead, because of their atomic instability, they degenerate into less heavy elements. The rate of degeneration can be very, very accurately measured in a laboratory. We simply measure how much of the given element degenerates into a less heavy element over a given period of time.

This is used to work out the half-lives of radioactive elements.

We can then apply this rate of decay to samples of the element in rock or other things. We measure the weight of the sample, look to see what percentage of the element has decayed into a less heavy element, then apply the mathematics and work out its age.

If the element is millions of years old, then that means that matter has existed for a lot longer than 6,000 years. Of course, it could be argued that such matter existed in space, but not on Earth, millions of years ago. Regardless, creation isn't just about Earth. The YEC story concludes that the universe was created only 6000 years ago.

This is blatantly false.

As for allegories, myths and stories, they have existed for thousands of years as ways of explaining things. They don't have to be taken literally, and in fact, it is often better to look for the moral principle rather than the literal dogma.