Noah's Ark
- Thread starter jprocks
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hello people, I've decided to make a new post because I feel that it's good to have a discussion.
I'm sure that you are all aware of the bible story of Noah and the Ark that God commanded him to make and herd 2 of each animal onto the Ark, for God was to cleanse the world of sinners. But what's stricken me recently is when, Noah had to huddle on 2 of each species onto the ark so that when the waters cease, Noah can release the animals into the wild so that they can repopulate the plains. We all know that the Ark was ( after 40 days and 40 nights ) resting on the mountains of Ararat, but, was the flood global? if it was, then how do we explain the animals that are on Australia? such as the marsupials, the birds in the amazon , the polar bears in the cold climates of the world and many more.
If Noah did indeed rest the ark in Turkey, then how do you explain the animals on the other continents if Noah released the animals to the 1 continent. This never ever made sense to me, but I would appreciate some thought taken into this.
Thanks guys! Have a blessed day! )0(
I'm sure that you are all aware of the bible story of Noah and the Ark that God commanded him to make and herd 2 of each animal onto the Ark, for God was to cleanse the world of sinners. But what's stricken me recently is when, Noah had to huddle on 2 of each species onto the ark so that when the waters cease, Noah can release the animals into the wild so that they can repopulate the plains. We all know that the Ark was ( after 40 days and 40 nights ) resting on the mountains of Ararat, but, was the flood global? if it was, then how do we explain the animals that are on Australia? such as the marsupials, the birds in the amazon , the polar bears in the cold climates of the world and many more.
If Noah did indeed rest the ark in Turkey, then how do you explain the animals on the other continents if Noah released the animals to the 1 continent. This never ever made sense to me, but I would appreciate some thought taken into this.
Thanks guys! Have a blessed day! )0(
1. There were 7 sets of two of the clean animals
2. There were 1 pair (2) of the unclean animals.
3. The ark floated for over a year before it came to rest on Mount Ararat. Genesis 7:4, 11, 17, 24 8:3, 10, 12, 13,14...1 year and ten days between 7:11 and 8:14
4. If you notice the lineages as found in Genesis while paying particular attention to verse 25 should help answer the question about the animals (And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
It is interesting top note that Peleg in Hebrew (STRONGS 6389) means EARTHQUAKE!
Lastly, the flood was global and many geologists up into the 60's testified to the (global) proof of a world wide deluge. As well as almost every ancient civilization has a story of a global flood. (yes some have been corrupted thru time) yet it would make sense as the world wide population came from Shem, Ham and Japheth and after all, they endured the flood and would have passed down the story which in the end would permeate most of the world population.
Study the number 2 in scripture, it represents the Gentiles. The number 7 is a little harder to see because it used in so many different ways.
Gentiles have 2 parts of scripture- the Old Testament and New Testament.
Gentiles were given the Holy spirit.. cloven (divided in two) tongues.
Jos_3:4, there is a space between the ark of the covenant and the Jews by a space of 2000 cubits - the time of the gentiles.
Mar 5:13, there were 2000 swine that the unclean spirits were cast into.
Many others also... Look at the "third day" in scripture, very revealing.
Gentiles have 2 parts of scripture- the Old Testament and New Testament.
Gentiles were given the Holy spirit.. cloven (divided in two) tongues.
Jos_3:4, there is a space between the ark of the covenant and the Jews by a space of 2000 cubits - the time of the gentiles.
Mar 5:13, there were 2000 swine that the unclean spirits were cast into.
Many others also... Look at the "third day" in scripture, very revealing.
Cool and intriguing point of research and ponderance indeed!
First off let's state the obvious, that outside of Scripture and what little we can gleen from True Science, we cannot answer all things with exact accuracy as we were not there and A LOT of time has passed since then and now. So pardon any speculation on my part.
Now as a note on the 2 unclean and the 7 clean animals taken into the ark. Note that of the clean animals that 7 of each were taken, male and female equally, with the 7th as a sacrifice to God for thanksgiving by Noah and his family for surviving the annhilation of the old wicked Pre-Flood World. You will also notice greater genetic variance within the so-called clean animals than with the so-called unclean animals as the clean animals would have had 3 sets of Patriarch and Matriarch genetics as where the unclean animals had only one pair of common Matriarch and Patriarch genes. You will also note throughout human history how the clean animals consistently are found around human population and even influenced by what you could call artificial selection, or human interference.
Now in terms of the spread of animals, I would say a good example of this is look how the human race itself spread over Earth after the Flood. From the point in Ararat all animals and people are able to spread throughout all the corners of the World quite easily even if we do not infer that the continental plates were broken up as goodly Shrimp pointed out. Though if indeed the plates did break up as inferred by that biblical passage it sure would make things a lot more easier to spread quickly beforehand and would also explain how population groups became geographically and genetically isolated afterwards.
Now in specific terms of the Arctic and Antarctic animals you will notice something very special about these animals, even in this time today. That they are able to swim, and indeed seem to constantly migrate either by swimming or walking over the ice from land to the polar regions. In fact a big problem in regards to climate change today is that the polar bear particularly is having troubles since the ice is disappearing rapidly thus disrupting and bringing hardship to its natural migration cycle.
Now in terms of the variation of life this is a very cool bit of evidence indeed which lends support to Noah's Ark story. You will notice if you look at the Theory of Evolution that that theory is not correct as one type of animal cannot change into another type except by hybridization in which case the offspring is either sterile or is in need of its parent species to continue.
However there is one scientific theory put forth by a goodly monk named Gregor Mendel, the Theory of Heredity (or as we call it today Genetics) which in my opinion have enough weight behind it to be called fact. What genetics shows us is that each animal after its own kind has a vast gene pool. One can isolate members of a specific gene pool either naturally or artifically. Also very interesting to lend support to this theory is members of the same kind can in fact even be reintroduced to their common gene pool seamlessly. This to me would seem to suggest that all animals have a common ancestor like unto themselves (that is to say not all animals come from Darwin's common ancestor of all life and evolved, but rather from a common hereditary set of parents that lived long ago.) This means for instance the Bears all have a common ancestor Bear, you might call this the Matriarch and Patriarch Bear. As the offspring of the Matriarch and Patriarch spread throughout Earth they became naturally isolated thus only breeding with other Bears with the same genetic make-up of eachother thus preserving certain characteristics with eachother.
You could then apply this idea and look at the marsupials in Australia as at some point being naturally isolated and thus having only their specific gene pool restricted to the Land Down Under which would explain why you do not find many varieties of them on Earth, or even in Australia.
You can even apply this principle to the Human Race. We know from anthropology we have 3 distinct anthropological post-Flood root races (very curiously aligning both geographically and genetically with the 3 Patriarchs and Matriarchs of the Bible; Shem, Ham, and Japheth and their wives.) We also know through history and even in today's time that such 3 races have indeed interbred throughout time and will retain characteristics or certain characteristics can be bred out or in given enough generations and time. We also know many of the sub-tribes of these three have at different points become geographically and genetically isolated thus retaining a handful of common characteristics. Example: melanin content, bone structure, certain genetic mutations, etc.
Now also consider that if all kinds of animals have a common Patriarch and Matriarch that it would have been quite easy for all such animals to have fit into The Ark literally as it was written with their many variances coming afterwards thanks to genetic spread, interbreeding, and isolation.
In terms of support for a Global Flood itself we can see quite clearly from the stratification of Earth's layers and from the fact that fossils seem to be jumbled throughout the geologic strata, with some even straddling two strata, that the Earth had to have underwent a very violent, sudden, and catastrophic change with a lot of water to mix things up so much and also to leave deposits to become layers.
Like I said, I do not have all answers since we all live thousands of years after such event, and a good bit of this is my own speculation. Though based on what little confirmable facts we do possess we can infer and ponder quite a bit. Very intriguing either way and I enjoy such ponderance. Kudos to you for raising the point!
First off let's state the obvious, that outside of Scripture and what little we can gleen from True Science, we cannot answer all things with exact accuracy as we were not there and A LOT of time has passed since then and now. So pardon any speculation on my part.
Now as a note on the 2 unclean and the 7 clean animals taken into the ark. Note that of the clean animals that 7 of each were taken, male and female equally, with the 7th as a sacrifice to God for thanksgiving by Noah and his family for surviving the annhilation of the old wicked Pre-Flood World. You will also notice greater genetic variance within the so-called clean animals than with the so-called unclean animals as the clean animals would have had 3 sets of Patriarch and Matriarch genetics as where the unclean animals had only one pair of common Matriarch and Patriarch genes. You will also note throughout human history how the clean animals consistently are found around human population and even influenced by what you could call artificial selection, or human interference.
Now in terms of the spread of animals, I would say a good example of this is look how the human race itself spread over Earth after the Flood. From the point in Ararat all animals and people are able to spread throughout all the corners of the World quite easily even if we do not infer that the continental plates were broken up as goodly Shrimp pointed out. Though if indeed the plates did break up as inferred by that biblical passage it sure would make things a lot more easier to spread quickly beforehand and would also explain how population groups became geographically and genetically isolated afterwards.
Now in specific terms of the Arctic and Antarctic animals you will notice something very special about these animals, even in this time today. That they are able to swim, and indeed seem to constantly migrate either by swimming or walking over the ice from land to the polar regions. In fact a big problem in regards to climate change today is that the polar bear particularly is having troubles since the ice is disappearing rapidly thus disrupting and bringing hardship to its natural migration cycle.
Now in terms of the variation of life this is a very cool bit of evidence indeed which lends support to Noah's Ark story. You will notice if you look at the Theory of Evolution that that theory is not correct as one type of animal cannot change into another type except by hybridization in which case the offspring is either sterile or is in need of its parent species to continue.
However there is one scientific theory put forth by a goodly monk named Gregor Mendel, the Theory of Heredity (or as we call it today Genetics) which in my opinion have enough weight behind it to be called fact. What genetics shows us is that each animal after its own kind has a vast gene pool. One can isolate members of a specific gene pool either naturally or artifically. Also very interesting to lend support to this theory is members of the same kind can in fact even be reintroduced to their common gene pool seamlessly. This to me would seem to suggest that all animals have a common ancestor like unto themselves (that is to say not all animals come from Darwin's common ancestor of all life and evolved, but rather from a common hereditary set of parents that lived long ago.) This means for instance the Bears all have a common ancestor Bear, you might call this the Matriarch and Patriarch Bear. As the offspring of the Matriarch and Patriarch spread throughout Earth they became naturally isolated thus only breeding with other Bears with the same genetic make-up of eachother thus preserving certain characteristics with eachother.
You could then apply this idea and look at the marsupials in Australia as at some point being naturally isolated and thus having only their specific gene pool restricted to the Land Down Under which would explain why you do not find many varieties of them on Earth, or even in Australia.
You can even apply this principle to the Human Race. We know from anthropology we have 3 distinct anthropological post-Flood root races (very curiously aligning both geographically and genetically with the 3 Patriarchs and Matriarchs of the Bible; Shem, Ham, and Japheth and their wives.) We also know through history and even in today's time that such 3 races have indeed interbred throughout time and will retain characteristics or certain characteristics can be bred out or in given enough generations and time. We also know many of the sub-tribes of these three have at different points become geographically and genetically isolated thus retaining a handful of common characteristics. Example: melanin content, bone structure, certain genetic mutations, etc.
Now also consider that if all kinds of animals have a common Patriarch and Matriarch that it would have been quite easy for all such animals to have fit into The Ark literally as it was written with their many variances coming afterwards thanks to genetic spread, interbreeding, and isolation.
In terms of support for a Global Flood itself we can see quite clearly from the stratification of Earth's layers and from the fact that fossils seem to be jumbled throughout the geologic strata, with some even straddling two strata, that the Earth had to have underwent a very violent, sudden, and catastrophic change with a lot of water to mix things up so much and also to leave deposits to become layers.
Like I said, I do not have all answers since we all live thousands of years after such event, and a good bit of this is my own speculation. Though based on what little confirmable facts we do possess we can infer and ponder quite a bit. Very intriguing either way and I enjoy such ponderance. Kudos to you for raising the point!
WOW! Where did you learn this stuff? I really would like to read up on it, especially the paragraph at the end. I get the list. I do have a Strong's, but I didn't even think about using it!
Maybe I can spend some time looking for renditions of the flood in other cultures and get back to you all.
Also something to ponder is IntotheVoid's argument. Though, I don't often give to much thought (credence) to atheistic views, he doe have me asking the question how? Not so much why, though, because that is God's business and if He wants to share, He will.
Maybe I can spend some time looking for renditions of the flood in other cultures and get back to you all.
Also something to ponder is IntotheVoid's argument. Though, I don't often give to much thought (credence) to atheistic views, he doe have me asking the question how? Not so much why, though, because that is God's business and if He wants to share, He will.
I have learned it over 24 years of studying the BIBLE in context. I went to a Seminary in Little Rock Arkansas and sat under a handful of men who taught us HOW TO STUDY the bible while learning Greek and Hebrew. We had to study through the bible two times a year as well as studying over 50 hours a week with 16 semester hours per quarter. I will say though...
1. All of what I just wrote means NOTHING as it is God that gives us understanding.
2. If we are sincere in our service, prayer, repentant of sin and sincere in our search for truth while ASKING God for knowledge, He will give as he does not UPBRAID. (James)
3. It takes hard work and many tiring hours of seeking and studying.
Lastly, the last paragraph comes from the study of history. You know even the first 10 names in the genealogy teaches the story of the creation, fall and redemption of man thru a savior. Do a study on the names of Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah of the book of Daniel and then study Daniel in light of their names.
1. All of what I just wrote means NOTHING as it is God that gives us understanding.
2. If we are sincere in our service, prayer, repentant of sin and sincere in our search for truth while ASKING God for knowledge, He will give as he does not UPBRAID. (James)
3. It takes hard work and many tiring hours of seeking and studying.
Lastly, the last paragraph comes from the study of history. You know even the first 10 names in the genealogy teaches the story of the creation, fall and redemption of man thru a savior. Do a study on the names of Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah of the book of Daniel and then study Daniel in light of their names.
Yes, the old was performed in the physical sense, and the new has been done in the spiritual manner. Our did the people of the old didn't have the spirit in them to define the word of the Lord and so they have had taken His words literally. Maybe that is why the Holy Spirit must be in us, or we will be spiritually dead. God's word always had been spiritual, never it suppose have been taken literally. So God has been very patiently waiting for us to produce what He has desired us to be like.
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the door-frames of your houses and on your gates.
Deut. 11:18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.
Exodus 13: 9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that this law of the Lord is to be on your lips. For the Lord brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand. 10 You must keep this ordinance at the appointed time year after year.
Here's a site about how they think at the time, and some still didn't matured spiritually to this day.
Some Laws of Tefillin - The Basic Laws and the order of Putting on the Tefillin. - Tefillin
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the door-frames of your houses and on your gates.
Deut. 11:18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.
Exodus 13: 9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that this law of the Lord is to be on your lips. For the Lord brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand. 10 You must keep this ordinance at the appointed time year after year.
Here's a site about how they think at the time, and some still didn't matured spiritually to this day.
Some Laws of Tefillin - The Basic Laws and the order of Putting on the Tefillin. - Tefillin
Here is a principle you apparently don't see at work here...
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Excellent! Some believe that having read the bible once, all is understood. Not so, the Bible was meant to be a lifetime study. I have learned more in the last year than any other year and expect to learn even more this coming year. We build upon what we have learned. There was another thread here about scriptures with more than one meaning, here is one that has at least two...
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
One meaning is that all the truth on a subject is not found in one place. Another is that we must build one truth upon another.
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
One meaning is that all the truth on a subject is not found in one place. Another is that we must build one truth upon another.