Noah's Ark

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Dec 12, 2013
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#41
Originally Posted by shrimp
I request permission to retract my statement about Peleg. I really did not do much research on it and after having read a bit on it, I do agree that the "continental drift" must have happened during the time of the flood. I apologize for my ignorance.

How about math and the time it would take for this to occur? How long has the current world map or state of the continents been the way they are? Humanity has been here about or a little over 6000 years (by the math of all genealogies added) and exactly how long at a few inches to feet a year would it take for continental drift to accomplish the division of the land not to mention the ability of God to stop the rotation of the earth with out dire consequences to Joshua and his army.

Even three feet a year would be 1716 years to move one mile. how many miles divides the U.S. from Europe? I don't know off the top of my head, but for argument let's say 2000 miles. It would take 3,532,000 years for the U.S. and Europe to drift 2000 miles apart. Thanks, but no thanks I will take the bible's statement over worldly science any day as God has made foolish the wisdom of the world.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
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#42
Cool and intriguing point of research and ponderance indeed!

First off let's state the obvious, that outside of Scripture and what little we can gleen from True Science, we cannot answer all things with exact accuracy as we were not there and A LOT of time has passed since then and now. So pardon any speculation on my part.

Now as a note on the 2 unclean and the 7 clean animals taken into the ark. Note that of the clean animals that 7 of each were taken, male and female equally, with the 7th as a sacrifice to God for thanksgiving by Noah and his family for surviving the annhilation of the old wicked Pre-Flood World. You will also notice greater genetic variance within the so-called clean animals than with the so-called unclean animals as the clean animals would have had 3 sets of Patriarch and Matriarch genetics as where the unclean animals had only one pair of common Matriarch and Patriarch genes. You will also note throughout human history how the clean animals consistently are found around human population and even influenced by what you could call artificial selection, or human interference.

Now in terms of the spread of animals, I would say a good example of this is look how the human race itself spread over Earth after the Flood. From the point in Ararat all animals and people are able to spread throughout all the corners of the World quite easily even if we do not infer that the continental plates were broken up as goodly Shrimp pointed out. Though if indeed the plates did break up as inferred by that biblical passage it sure would make things a lot more easier to spread quickly beforehand and would also explain how population groups became geographically and genetically isolated afterwards.

Now in specific terms of the Arctic and Antarctic animals you will notice something very special about these animals, even in this time today. That they are able to swim, and indeed seem to constantly migrate either by swimming or walking over the ice from land to the polar regions. In fact a big problem in regards to climate change today is that the polar bear particularly is having troubles since the ice is disappearing rapidly thus disrupting and bringing hardship to its natural migration cycle.

Now in terms of the variation of life this is a very cool bit of evidence indeed which lends support to Noah's Ark story. You will notice if you look at the Theory of Evolution that that theory is not correct as one type of animal cannot change into another type except by hybridization in which case the offspring is either sterile or is in need of its parent species to continue.

However there is one scientific theory put forth by a goodly monk named Gregor Mendel, the Theory of Heredity (or as we call it today Genetics) which in my opinion have enough weight behind it to be called fact. What genetics shows us is that each animal after its own kind has a vast gene pool. One can isolate members of a specific gene pool either naturally or artifically. Also very interesting to lend support to this theory is members of the same kind can in fact even be reintroduced to their common gene pool seamlessly. This to me would seem to suggest that all animals have a common ancestor like unto themselves (that is to say not all animals come from Darwin's common ancestor of all life and evolved, but rather from a common hereditary set of parents that lived long ago.) This means for instance the Bears all have a common ancestor Bear, you might call this the Matriarch and Patriarch Bear. As the offspring of the Matriarch and Patriarch spread throughout Earth they became naturally isolated thus only breeding with other Bears with the same genetic make-up of eachother thus preserving certain characteristics with eachother.

You could then apply this idea and look at the marsupials in Australia as at some point being naturally isolated and thus having only their specific gene pool restricted to the Land Down Under which would explain why you do not find many varieties of them on Earth, or even in Australia.

You can even apply this principle to the Human Race. We know from anthropology we have 3 distinct anthropological post-Flood root races (very curiously aligning both geographically and genetically with the 3 Patriarchs and Matriarchs of the Bible; Shem, Ham, and Japheth and their wives.) We also know through history and even in today's time that such 3 races have indeed interbred throughout time and will retain characteristics or certain characteristics can be bred out or in given enough generations and time. We also know many of the sub-tribes of these three have at different points become geographically and genetically isolated thus retaining a handful of common characteristics. Example: melanin content, bone structure, certain genetic mutations, etc.

Now also consider that if all kinds of animals have a common Patriarch and Matriarch that it would have been quite easy for all such animals to have fit into The Ark literally as it was written with their many variances coming afterwards thanks to genetic spread, interbreeding, and isolation.

In terms of support for a Global Flood itself we can see quite clearly from the stratification of Earth's layers and from the fact that fossils seem to be jumbled throughout the geologic strata, with some even straddling two strata, that the Earth had to have underwent a very violent, sudden, and catastrophic change with a lot of water to mix things up so much and also to leave deposits to become layers.


Like I said, I do not have all answers since we all live thousands of years after such event, and a good bit of this is my own speculation. Though based on what little confirmable facts we do possess we can infer and ponder quite a bit. Very intriguing either way and I enjoy such ponderance. Kudos to you for raising the point!
Interesting explanation. Are you a science teacher or a teacher of any sort? Just curious.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#43
There were 2 different floods right? It's been a while and I'm too lazy to check right now.
Somehow I missed this. You are very correct here. There was one that occurred between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 and then the one of Gen 6-8.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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#44
Originally Posted by shrimp
I request permission to retract my statement about Peleg. I really did not do much research on it and after having read a bit on it, I do agree that the "continental drift" must have happened during the time of the flood. I apologize for my ignorance.

How about math and the time it would take for this to occur? How long has the current world map or state of the continents been the way they are? Humanity has been here about or a little over 6000 years (by the math of all genealogies added) and exactly how long at a few inches to feet a year would it take for continental drift to accomplish the division of the land not to mention the ability of God to stop the rotation of the earth with out dire consequences to Joshua and his army.

Even three feet a year would be 1716 years to move one mile. how many miles divides the U.S. from Europe? I don't know off the top of my head, but for argument let's say 2000 miles. It would take 3,532,000 years for the U.S. and Europe to drift 2000 miles apart. Thanks, but no thanks I will take the bible's statement over worldly science any day as God has made foolish the wisdom of the world.
Yes but that is assuming that all things remain constant...

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

But we know of at least two worldwide catastrophes.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#45
Interesting explanation. Are you a science teacher or a teacher of any sort? Just curious.
Nope just a lifelong learner.

Like I said, don't take my words as canon or anything lol, merely compare the Bible and compare True Science (which is observation and experimentation of the physical World.) You will find a lot of alignment with the two. Remember though, we live in a time era far removed from those Ancient days and because naturally a lot of disaster has been wrought on Earth between then and now a lot of physical evidence is lost, and some things are to a point beyond our modern comprehension due to loss of knowledge and lack of technology. There is still a lot we can theorize or outright confirm though, which in my opinion is pretty cool. It really makes learning both Science and the Bible a lot more intellectually stimulating.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
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#46
While reading this thread two thoughts of wonder came to me.

1 - Noah somehow was aware of what a clean and unclean animal was so God must have told him because Noah lived before Leviticus was written giving the lists of clean and unclean animals.


2 - If there had not been a global flood then why would God make a promise at the end of the flood to Noah and give the rainbow as a sign that He would never cover the earth with a flood again? I conclude for myself that since I see a rainbow now and then and have read where the rainbow started from the bible that there must have been a global flood.

I have enjoyed this thread. Thanks for the original post.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
113
#47
Nope just a lifelong learner.

Like I said, don't take my words as canon or anything lol, merely compare the Bible and compare True Science (which is observation and experimentation of the physical World.) You will find a lot of alignment with the two. Remember though, we live in a time era far removed from those Ancient days and because naturally a lot of disaster has been wrought on Earth between then and now a lot of physical evidence is lost, and some things are to a point beyond our modern comprehension due to loss of knowledge and lack of technology. There is still a lot we can theorize or outright confirm though, which in my opinion is pretty cool. It really makes learning both Science and the Bible a lot more intellectually stimulating.

I think you could have been a teacher and would probably have been a good one. Thanks for your post.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#50
While reading this thread two thoughts of wonder came to me.

1 - Noah somehow was aware of what a clean and unclean animal was so God must have told him because Noah lived before Leviticus was written giving the lists of clean and unclean animals.
Astute observation. This is missed quite often in the story of the flood. It shows that clean and unclean are not ceremonial laws but rather they are health laws. The Designer and Creator knows exactly what fuel to use in the human body.


2 - If there had not been a global flood then why would God make a promise at the end of the flood to Noah and give the rainbow as a sign that He would never cover the earth with a flood again? I conclude for myself that since I see a rainbow now and then and have read where the rainbow started from the bible that there must have been a global flood.

I have enjoyed this thread. Thanks for the original post.
Another very astute observation.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#51
I request permission to retract my statement about Peleg. I really did not do much research on it and after having read a bit on it, I do agree that the "continental drift" must have happened during the time of the flood. I apologize for my ignorance.
No, honey -- you are "drifting" further into error with this "worldy" thinking...

The continents are not floating around the ocean like lillypads --- the oceans have [ hard rock ] land bottoms...

The continents have not moved ( far / much ). The water level has changed.

Pangea is not true.


Watch this seminar...


:)
 

shrimp

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
1,188
39
48
#52
No, honey -- you are "drifting" further into error with this "worldy" thinking...

The continents are not floating around the ocean like lillypads --- the oceans have [ hard rock ] land bottoms...

The continents have not moved ( far / much ). The water level has changed.

Pangea is not true.


Watch this seminar...


:)
Excuse me for not being clear. It was meant to be a pun. I'm sorry if it wasn't punny.
 
Sep 14, 2013
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#54
While reading this thread two thoughts of wonder came to me.

1 - Noah somehow was aware of what a clean and unclean animal was so God must have told him because Noah lived before Leviticus was written giving the lists of clean and unclean animals.


2 - If there had not been a global flood then why would God make a promise at the end of the flood to Noah and give the rainbow as a sign that He would never cover the earth with a flood again? I conclude for myself that since I see a rainbow now and then and have read where the rainbow started from the bible that there must have been a global flood.

I have enjoyed this thread. Thanks for the original post.
So light never refracted before the flood?

Notice how a Rainbow is directly opposite to where the sun is...
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#55
Yes but that is assuming that all things remain constant...

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

But we know of at least two worldwide catastrophes.
Yeah I got that, my point was not necessarily the (exact) time it took, but rather that God gives us what we need to know and I will trust what God has to say in Genesis over worldly man made (knowledge and wisdom) The bible states clearly that the earth was divided in the (DAYS) of Peleg, it did not take place over hundreds of thousands or even millions of years as modern science crams down our throats. :)
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#56
Yeah I got that, my point was not necessarily the (exact) time it took, but rather that God gives us what we need to know and I will trust what God has to say in Genesis over worldly man made (knowledge and wisdom) The bible states clearly that the earth was divided in the (DAYS) of Peleg, it did not take place over hundreds of thousands or even millions of years as modern science crams down our throats. :)
Science is not cramming anything ... only reporting evidence from observation,testing,investigating, and inductive reasoning.
Based on what is known about the earth and tectonic plates, there is no reason to think that continental drift occurred rapidly over a few years.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#57
Based on what is known about the earth and tectonic plates, there is no reason to think that continental drift occurred rapidly over a few years.
Based on what is known about the earth and tectonic plates, there is no reason to believe that continental drift ever happened at all... ;)

( not to any significant extent )

:)
 
T

tripsin

Guest
#58
You hit the nail square on the head there! exactly what I wanted to hear!
There are those, many actually, who believe that the flood was local. That would explain a lot.

P.S. Genesis 1:2b is not referring to the waters of Noah's flood as some think it is.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#60
It's a dangerous practice to view the creation story, Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark etc. as nothing more than a myth informed by Truth. They are fact, part of our history. Creation.com has great articles and books concerning this topic. Here are just a few of them: Check them out below.

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