Not by works, not by "only believe", and not by faith alone either
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Where does this wisdom come from?
Obviously this guy sins and falls short with no problems or shame.
Scripturally this is called mocking, persecution, ridicule, shaming.
Ironic if one blatantly boasts in sin. Is that a fruit of the spirit or of
unbelief, in their book the unforgivable sin. So two things lost in one
go faith and salvation. Bit of a bad day then, wolves always get caught
most of the time by their aggressive mocking, lol
Obviously this guy sins and falls short with no problems or shame.
Scripturally this is called mocking, persecution, ridicule, shaming.
Ironic if one blatantly boasts in sin. Is that a fruit of the spirit or of
unbelief, in their book the unforgivable sin. So two things lost in one
go faith and salvation. Bit of a bad day then, wolves always get caught
most of the time by their aggressive mocking, lol
Question Are we living to Gods standard, or walking in love of God and man and knowing His
blessing? And by chance we discover we are walking in His ways.....who would have known.
When the Holy Spirit comes upon you and dwells in your heart, who would know the fruit
is life eternal and a walk like Christ.
Strange how so many seem to claim the walk but are walking a very different path.
And the words they approve of are so non scriptural, and refuse, in anger, to see or
respond to Gods commands! Surely their hearts would be convicted and humbleness
flow? No abuse, slander and lies so maybe their heart is full of something else.
So I just wonder what they are and what type of experiences created such a thing....
blessing? And by chance we discover we are walking in His ways.....who would have known.
When the Holy Spirit comes upon you and dwells in your heart, who would know the fruit
is life eternal and a walk like Christ.
Strange how so many seem to claim the walk but are walking a very different path.
And the words they approve of are so non scriptural, and refuse, in anger, to see or
respond to Gods commands! Surely their hearts would be convicted and humbleness
flow? No abuse, slander and lies so maybe their heart is full of something else.
So I just wonder what they are and what type of experiences created such a thing....
Creeds help stop aggressive stirrers who want to push out people they do not like
without declaring their real beliefs. So conflict and confusion reigned with people
claiming authority but without justification and sometimes being apostate.
Today we have atheist pastors and churches, which should not exist if some serious
questioning had been followed. Some stirrers here are not far off total unbelief in
there care for scripture and slandering.
without declaring their real beliefs. So conflict and confusion reigned with people
claiming authority but without justification and sometimes being apostate.
Today we have atheist pastors and churches, which should not exist if some serious
questioning had been followed. Some stirrers here are not far off total unbelief in
there care for scripture and slandering.
Creeds help stop aggressive stirrers who want to push out people they do not like
without declaring their real beliefs. So conflict and confusion reigned with people
claiming authority but without justification and sometimes being apostate.
Today we have atheist pastors and churches, which should not exist if some serious
questioning had been followed. Some stirrers here are not far off total unbelief in
there care for scripture and slandering.
without declaring their real beliefs. So conflict and confusion reigned with people
claiming authority but without justification and sometimes being apostate.
Today we have atheist pastors and churches, which should not exist if some serious
questioning had been followed. Some stirrers here are not far off total unbelief in
there care for scripture and slandering.
let me ask u a straight question now do u believe in substitionary atonement???
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it and building the ark saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning.
Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Faith is that Noah believed God and doing what God commanded Noah to do (build the ark) is works. You don't seem to make a distinction between faith and works. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand! We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit.
I don't hear anyone saying that good works are an evil under the sun. Sounds like a straw man argument from someone who teaches salvation by works. Being careful to maintain good works and that these things are good and profitable unto men does not mean that we are saved by good works, as you seem determined to believe. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Big difference!
I don't hear anyone saying that good works are an evil under the sun. Sounds like a straw man argument from someone who teaches salvation by works. Being careful to maintain good works and that these things are good and profitable unto men does not mean that we are saved by good works, as you seem determined to believe. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Big difference!
If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it's important to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way those who are saved conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.
Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of receiving eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. *You need to be careful not to confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
The gospel is not salvation by works. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). Yet there are those who have not obeyed the gospel by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16).
Yes, but not to determine if their deeds earned them eternal life.
Descriptive of BELIEVERS, not unbelievers.
Descriptive of UNBELIEVERS, not believers.
You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine. Confusing descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture and teaching salvation by works is not properly harmonizing scripture with scripture and reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine.
Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.
Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of receiving eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. *You need to be careful not to confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
The gospel is not salvation by works. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). Yet there are those who have not obeyed the gospel by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16).
Yes, but not to determine if their deeds earned them eternal life.
Descriptive of BELIEVERS, not unbelievers.
Descriptive of UNBELIEVERS, not believers.
You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine. Confusing descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture and teaching salvation by works is not properly harmonizing scripture with scripture and reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine.
I would think we would love the righteousness of Christ that saves us from the eternal wage of sin according to His work of faith as a labor of His love. Seeing no man could be found with one of their own. It defines self righteousness .
What saves you from the eternal wage of sin? Have you received it? Do you have your new incorruptible body that is promiesd ?
Why do you continually offer dead works and faith towards God rather than his righteous works that works towards us? Do you think you might change the law by turning it upside down like the man in Mathew 7 (worker of inquity) ?
Can we have faith towards Christ without first being made alive by His work of faith working in us to both will and do His good pleasure.
It would seem you are having difficulty with the words OF and IN as to the direction faith works or does not?
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the "faith of Christ", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
What saves you from the eternal wage of sin? Have you received it? Do you have your new incorruptible body that is promiesd ?
Why do you continually offer dead works and faith towards God rather than his righteous works that works towards us? Do you think you might change the law by turning it upside down like the man in Mathew 7 (worker of inquity) ?
Can we have faith towards Christ without first being made alive by His work of faith working in us to both will and do His good pleasure.
It would seem you are having difficulty with the words OF and IN as to the direction faith works or does not?
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the "faith of Christ", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
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these are just a few.... it seems that following Jesus' commandments is a pretty important part of being a believer. Some might say it is the proof of being a believer....
so... if you don't follow Jesus' commands, are you a believer?
so.... in order to be a believer, you must follow Jesus' commands?
so... if you don't follow Jesus' commands, are you a believer?
so.... in order to be a believer, you must follow Jesus' commands?
I believe in Christ being the atoning sacrifice for our sins, through faith in the cross.
If you call this substitionary atonement, then I agree with that.
Some project that we should have died for our sins, and Christ died instead of us.
This has some aspects that are true, but it is an approximation of salvation and not its essence.
Jesus took the sinful attitude of man and died a willing victim of it, and forgave those who killed
Him. We take this on ourselves by faith, identifying our sin with theirs.
Someone asked once why Jesus had to die on the cross in Jerusalem. The answer was he had to
die at the hands of sinful, self justifying men, the best man can create, and forgive them.
God could not have killed Jesus, because that would have been righteousness killing righteousness.
Jesus also had to be friends with people, to be mortal just like us, showing love and care so no one
would believe Him guilty of anything and only bringing the best, supernaturally, under lining He was
God made man. The only place this could have happened was in Israel, because they were Gods
people, those who alone really knew what He was like.
If you can see this, you begin to see the wisdom of God and our salvation.
We tend to make things too religious, because we do not understand it, but know the power that
is being talked about, but at a distance.
As I write this, some parts of this I had not seen before. The Lord is good and gracious in all He
does. Praise His name.
We are forgiven, because Jesus has forgiven us through the cross. The cross is healing because it
demonstrates Gods love transcends anything we understand or measure in our lives. A friend might
die for another friend, but not their enemy. His love was to go to His enemy, lay down and be the
sacrifical lamb, an apparent paradox. But the forgiveness that flowed, to purchase a people to the
Eternal Kingdom made it all worthwhile. To see and believe this, is to be saved. It is why the symbol
of the cross is our inspiration, that through this death we might have life, Halleluyah.
If you call this substitionary atonement, then I agree with that.
Some project that we should have died for our sins, and Christ died instead of us.
This has some aspects that are true, but it is an approximation of salvation and not its essence.
Jesus took the sinful attitude of man and died a willing victim of it, and forgave those who killed
Him. We take this on ourselves by faith, identifying our sin with theirs.
Someone asked once why Jesus had to die on the cross in Jerusalem. The answer was he had to
die at the hands of sinful, self justifying men, the best man can create, and forgive them.
God could not have killed Jesus, because that would have been righteousness killing righteousness.
Jesus also had to be friends with people, to be mortal just like us, showing love and care so no one
would believe Him guilty of anything and only bringing the best, supernaturally, under lining He was
God made man. The only place this could have happened was in Israel, because they were Gods
people, those who alone really knew what He was like.
If you can see this, you begin to see the wisdom of God and our salvation.
We tend to make things too religious, because we do not understand it, but know the power that
is being talked about, but at a distance.
As I write this, some parts of this I had not seen before. The Lord is good and gracious in all He
does. Praise His name.
We are forgiven, because Jesus has forgiven us through the cross. The cross is healing because it
demonstrates Gods love transcends anything we understand or measure in our lives. A friend might
die for another friend, but not their enemy. His love was to go to His enemy, lay down and be the
sacrifical lamb, an apparent paradox. But the forgiveness that flowed, to purchase a people to the
Eternal Kingdom made it all worthwhile. To see and believe this, is to be saved. It is why the symbol
of the cross is our inspiration, that through this death we might have life, Halleluyah.
Peter,
It is critical that you bring your thoughts in line with Scripture and express what Scripture expresses.
That should be faith in the Crucified One. The cross has no merit.
Is it not true that God laid on Christ the iniquity of us all, and that the wages of sin is death? So once again you are not going by what Scripture actually says.
This statement indicates great confusion. It is not just the sinful attitudes of sinners for which Christ died. He died for the actual sins of the whole world -- attitudes and deeds. But He was definitely not a "victim". Christ is called the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Why? Because He voluntarily and willingly became the Lamb of God. It is He Himself who laid down His life, and He Himself who took it up again. And we do not identify our sins with those of other sinners. It is Christ who was made SIN for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Do you see how you have abandoned Scripture to come up with your own concepts. It could be a language issue, but I believe it is not simply that.
Once again, you have abandoned the Scriptural reason, and come up with your own ideas. The Bible says that Christ OUR PASSOVER was sacrificed for us. What does that mean? Passover was a Hebrew festival pointing to the ultimate Passover Lamb (Christ). So He died on the 14th day of Nisan in Jerusalem, where all the Jews were gathered for the feast of Passover. They were required to gather in Jerusalem at that time, and Christ was not only fulfilling the Passover sacrifice, but all of the sacrifices of Israel were fulfilled in Him.
Once again, you have presented a misunderstanding. Scripture says without the shedding of blood there is no remission (of sins) and that the life of the flesh is in the blood. So it is the shed blood of Christ which makes remission of sins, and we are forgiven because Jesus shed His blood to atone for our sins. Since this is the blood of God, He purchased the Church with His own blood (Acts 20:28).
So what I am suggesting is that you get a good grasp of what is really taught about the finished work of Christ and express it as it is expressed in order to avoid misleading others.
It is critical that you bring your thoughts in line with Scripture and express what Scripture expresses.
That should be faith in the Crucified One. The cross has no merit.
Is it not true that God laid on Christ the iniquity of us all, and that the wages of sin is death? So once again you are not going by what Scripture actually says.
This statement indicates great confusion. It is not just the sinful attitudes of sinners for which Christ died. He died for the actual sins of the whole world -- attitudes and deeds. But He was definitely not a "victim". Christ is called the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Why? Because He voluntarily and willingly became the Lamb of God. It is He Himself who laid down His life, and He Himself who took it up again. And we do not identify our sins with those of other sinners. It is Christ who was made SIN for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Do you see how you have abandoned Scripture to come up with your own concepts. It could be a language issue, but I believe it is not simply that.
Once again, you have abandoned the Scriptural reason, and come up with your own ideas. The Bible says that Christ OUR PASSOVER was sacrificed for us. What does that mean? Passover was a Hebrew festival pointing to the ultimate Passover Lamb (Christ). So He died on the 14th day of Nisan in Jerusalem, where all the Jews were gathered for the feast of Passover. They were required to gather in Jerusalem at that time, and Christ was not only fulfilling the Passover sacrifice, but all of the sacrifices of Israel were fulfilled in Him.
Once again, you have presented a misunderstanding. Scripture says without the shedding of blood there is no remission (of sins) and that the life of the flesh is in the blood. So it is the shed blood of Christ which makes remission of sins, and we are forgiven because Jesus shed His blood to atone for our sins. Since this is the blood of God, He purchased the Church with His own blood (Acts 20:28).
So what I am suggesting is that you get a good grasp of what is really taught about the finished work of Christ and express it as it is expressed in order to avoid misleading others.
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Let me answer this simply.
Jesus did all the things you describe and also those that I describe.
We can end up with religious jargon and miss the whole point of Jesus dying, so that we
might know God, His love and be forgiven.
Now when I say the cross, I mean all the implications of this. This is how language works
you summarise an idea in one word so you do not have to keep unpacking it to explain
what you mean.
And to be honest, in todays biblical world, speaking relationship communicates much better.
Now let me unpack a symbol, Christs blood. Blood is the symbol of life. Life is in the blood.
So we are forgiven because Jesus gave His life on the cross, submitting to the punishment
though He was innocent.
Now spiritually this is purchasing us from the Kingdom of this world into the Kingdom of heaven.
Now what matters to me, is we love God and are forgiven because He died for us and we believe
in Him. After evangelising for over 40 years, you get to express these realities in many different
ways. And what matters most is you convey the joy Christ brings, His freedom and forgiveness.
I know too many who know the language but do not know Christ, to know love from the heart
is much more important.
And my friend, I am not the teacher, God is, through His word. God bless you, thankyou for the
encouragement.
Jesus did all the things you describe and also those that I describe.
We can end up with religious jargon and miss the whole point of Jesus dying, so that we
might know God, His love and be forgiven.
Now when I say the cross, I mean all the implications of this. This is how language works
you summarise an idea in one word so you do not have to keep unpacking it to explain
what you mean.
And to be honest, in todays biblical world, speaking relationship communicates much better.
Now let me unpack a symbol, Christs blood. Blood is the symbol of life. Life is in the blood.
So we are forgiven because Jesus gave His life on the cross, submitting to the punishment
though He was innocent.
Now spiritually this is purchasing us from the Kingdom of this world into the Kingdom of heaven.
Now what matters to me, is we love God and are forgiven because He died for us and we believe
in Him. After evangelising for over 40 years, you get to express these realities in many different
ways. And what matters most is you convey the joy Christ brings, His freedom and forgiveness.
I know too many who know the language but do not know Christ, to know love from the heart
is much more important.
And my friend, I am not the teacher, God is, through His word. God bless you, thankyou for the
encouragement.
You are right, that Jerusalem and the Passover where the reality of Christs death laid down back
in Egypt.
Now the great thing about the Lord, is there are probably an infinite series of aspects of eternal
truths we can express. Discovering some new ones is a good thing.
The passover is obviously referring to Christ and His blood that redeems the people of Israel.
Praise the Lord.
in Egypt.
Now the great thing about the Lord, is there are probably an infinite series of aspects of eternal
truths we can express. Discovering some new ones is a good thing.
The passover is obviously referring to Christ and His blood that redeems the people of Israel.
Praise the Lord.
