Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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it says it does............ so yeah it depends on it looks like it pretty clearly............. same thing in 1 cor 6:9-11
says clearly wont inherit the kingdom, nothing about quality of life here on earth......... it speaks in a future tense as well so clearly it is about inheriting the kingdom of God, about going to heaven......... no dancing around that. just gotta deal with it.... no matter how perfect u live in this world, life will suck, u will have pains and aches, so the kingdom of God isnt this earth........ feel free to prove me wrong, i dont like what it says but it says what it says so lets roll with the punches u see
says clearly wont inherit the kingdom, nothing about quality of life here on earth......... it speaks in a future tense as well so clearly it is about inheriting the kingdom of God, about going to heaven......... no dancing around that. just gotta deal with it.... no matter how perfect u live in this world, life will suck, u will have pains and aches, so the kingdom of God isnt this earth........ feel free to prove me wrong, i dont like what it says but it says what it says so lets roll with the punches u see
Were are spiritually born again of incorruptable seed which is temporarily housed in a dead body of flesh.....Jesus...THE SUPREME EXAMPLE said it best....the SPIRIT IS INDEED WILLING BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK......I will not ignore the words of Jesus and or Paul in favor of any man's opinion regardless of how loud he barks........ 
Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
If you want to discuss this - we can go over to the thread that is made for doing that which I posted to you. This is "Not by works " thread.
I will say this about it though before we go there ( if you want to that is...
.. ) I think it is a great subject actually.1 Cor. 6:9-11 is contrasting "identities" - one is unbelievers verse 9-10 and the other are believers verse 11.
The kingdom of God is peace... and that kingdom is within us. ( Romans 14:17 ) If a Christian doesn't experience the peace that is in Christ here in this earth because of wrong belief and worrying ( which is a sin because it is not believing that God will look after us ).
Would you agree that whatsoever is not of faith is sin? Romans 14:23
Does this Christian now go to hell because of not experiencing peace that is ours in the kingdom of God that is within us - in the new creation in Christ?
New International Version 1984 Ecclesiastes 12:8-14 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Everything is meaningless!” The Conclusion of the Matter Not only was the Teacher wise, but also he imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true. The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
Were are spiritually born again of incorruptable seed which is temporarily housed in a dead body of flesh.....Jesus...THE SUPREME EXAMPLE said it best....the SPIRIT IS INDEED WILLING BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK......I will not ignore the words of Jesus and or Paul in favor of any man's opinion regardless of how loud he barks........
The Spirit of Christ is the new birth. I know this does cause some anger, but is what I see in scripture. Right now there are people born again, receiving Pentecost. All over the world. And there are others receiving both simultaneously. No set pattern, but one knows when they are empowered.
Sorry...but is how I see it.
Yes, also we forget that Jesus is the sower, and He loves all types of soil, so much so that He is willing to sow seed on any type of ground.
A typical farmer would never really plant his seed on anything but good soil.
But then Jesus is anything but a typical farmer
I have UG on ignore, but I saw her quote here....
She says the sower is Jesus....lets check with scripture on this.....
Mark 4.3-
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow
Mark 4.14-
[SUP]14 [/SUP]The sower sows the word...
The seed is the word.....
John 1.1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1.14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1.17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
From easy Bible knowledge we come to learn the word is Jesus Christ....
How can Jesus sow himself? HE cannot do that...the sower is not Jesus, the seed is Jesus Christ....Jesus is not sowing the Bible into hearts and minds...We are sowing Jesus into others....
Here is an excellent article addressing "Just what are the commandments of Jesus?"
( Hint: it has nothing to do with following the Sabbath day or the 10 commandments as in the Old Testament way which was a "shadow" of things to come - but it has everything to do with the true Sabbath rest and life that which is found in Christ Himself )
I like to use this site from time to time as it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. it also has a place at the bottom where people can ask questions. I have found I have learned much from that area too.
John 14:15 – The Commands of Jesus
If God loves us unconditionally, how do we account for those scriptures that link His love with our obedience, like this one:
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)
A legalist reads this backwards: “You will keep my commandments if you love me.”
In other words, we must prove our love for God by doing what He commands.
Commandment-keeping is our duty, a condition we must meet if we are to enjoy His love.
But someone who is walking in grace reads it just as Jesus said it. He understands that keeping His commands is a by-product of love.
Paul explains this in Romans 8:3-4, but let me give you an everyday example inspired by something I read.
"Here in New Zealand we have a big problem with domestic violence. Consequently, there are many laws governing the responsibilities of fathers. Break any of these laws and you might go to jail or have your kids taken away.
It’s a serious business. But to be honest, I couldn’t tell you what these laws are. I’ve never read them. Yet I can confidently declare that I am keeping every one of these laws.
How do I know? Because I love my kids. I don’t keep the laws to show the authorities that I love my kids and I don’t relate to my children on the basis of these laws. I relate to them on the basis of love and keeping the laws of the land flows naturally from that love relationship.
I know the laws serve a good purpose, but they weren’t written for me. They were written for fathers who don’t love their kids."
Similarly, the laws found in the Bible were not written for those who love Jesus (1 Tim 1:9). Contrary to what the legalist may tell you, keeping the laws to earn what He freely offers is a surefire sign that you don’t know the love of God.
A legalist reads the words of Jesus above and sees a threat. Do the commandments or else! But love makes no threats. Jesus is returning for a bride and it won’t be a shotgun wedding.
What are the commands of Jesus?
The next time someone tells you that you must keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love, ask them, “what are the commands of Jesus?”
They will probably respond with the greatest commandment which is, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul” (Mt 22:38). This is fine, I guess.
But if you insert that command into the phrase above it becomes, “If you love me, you will love me with all your heart, mind and soul,” which is kind of redundant.
If you read John 14:15 in context, you will see that on this occasion Jesus is referring to two specific commands. Here’s the first:
“A new command I give you: Love one another….” (Jn 13:34)
And here’s the second:
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me… Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves” (Jn 14:1,11)
How can we be certain that these are His commandments? Because John – who was there when Jesus spoke these words – says so in one of his letters:
“And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.” (1 Jn 3:23)
What does it mean to keep His commands?
Lest we dilute His commandments to accommodate our experience, Jesus outlines His expectations of obedience for both. Here’s what He expects from the first:
“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (Jn 13:34)
How did Jesus love us? By laying down His life for us (Jn 15:3). That’s a high standard of love! Indeed, there is no greater love. And what are His expectations regarding the second commandment:
“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these…” (Jn 14:12)
Believe in Jesus and you will do the works of Jesus. Put it altogether and Jesus is saying this:
“If you love me, you will love one another as I have loved you and your faith in me will lead to miracles like I have been doing and greater miracles still.”
If you’ve been in any church for at least five years, you will know that Jesus’ first commandment is pretty much humanly impossible to keep, while the second commandment is definitely impossible.
So the next time someone tries to lay a heavy burden on you by telling you that you must keep Jesus’ commandments to earn God’s love, just ask them how many people they’ve raised from the dead!
When they look puzzled, tell them that Jesus commanded us to believe in Him and He said that those who did would do the same works He did and greater works besides!
Now that we begin to understand what Jesus wasn’t saying – He wasn’t saying that we need to keep His commandments to prove our love – we’re ready to dig deeper into what He was saying.
That’s the subject of the next post. You won’t want to miss it. When you see what Jesus was promising His disciples and you, it’s going to blow you away!
Maybe you’ve been intimidated by John 14:15 and the other new covenant laws. If so, prepare to be set free. When you get a hold of the words of Jesus you’re going to be so pumped that you’ll want to frame them and hang them on your wall. Stay tuned!
Unquote:
Here is the link if anyone wants to look at the questions or to see the next post as he mentioned at the end of the article.
https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/03/john-14v15/
( Hint: it has nothing to do with following the Sabbath day or the 10 commandments as in the Old Testament way which was a "shadow" of things to come - but it has everything to do with the true Sabbath rest and life that which is found in Christ Himself )
I like to use this site from time to time as it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. it also has a place at the bottom where people can ask questions. I have found I have learned much from that area too.
John 14:15 – The Commands of Jesus
If God loves us unconditionally, how do we account for those scriptures that link His love with our obedience, like this one:
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)
A legalist reads this backwards: “You will keep my commandments if you love me.”
In other words, we must prove our love for God by doing what He commands.
Commandment-keeping is our duty, a condition we must meet if we are to enjoy His love.
But someone who is walking in grace reads it just as Jesus said it. He understands that keeping His commands is a by-product of love.
Paul explains this in Romans 8:3-4, but let me give you an everyday example inspired by something I read.
"Here in New Zealand we have a big problem with domestic violence. Consequently, there are many laws governing the responsibilities of fathers. Break any of these laws and you might go to jail or have your kids taken away.
It’s a serious business. But to be honest, I couldn’t tell you what these laws are. I’ve never read them. Yet I can confidently declare that I am keeping every one of these laws.
How do I know? Because I love my kids. I don’t keep the laws to show the authorities that I love my kids and I don’t relate to my children on the basis of these laws. I relate to them on the basis of love and keeping the laws of the land flows naturally from that love relationship.
I know the laws serve a good purpose, but they weren’t written for me. They were written for fathers who don’t love their kids."
Similarly, the laws found in the Bible were not written for those who love Jesus (1 Tim 1:9). Contrary to what the legalist may tell you, keeping the laws to earn what He freely offers is a surefire sign that you don’t know the love of God.
A legalist reads the words of Jesus above and sees a threat. Do the commandments or else! But love makes no threats. Jesus is returning for a bride and it won’t be a shotgun wedding.
What are the commands of Jesus?
The next time someone tells you that you must keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love, ask them, “what are the commands of Jesus?”
They will probably respond with the greatest commandment which is, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul” (Mt 22:38). This is fine, I guess.
But if you insert that command into the phrase above it becomes, “If you love me, you will love me with all your heart, mind and soul,” which is kind of redundant.
If you read John 14:15 in context, you will see that on this occasion Jesus is referring to two specific commands. Here’s the first:
“A new command I give you: Love one another….” (Jn 13:34)
And here’s the second:
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me… Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves” (Jn 14:1,11)
How can we be certain that these are His commandments? Because John – who was there when Jesus spoke these words – says so in one of his letters:
“And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.” (1 Jn 3:23)
What does it mean to keep His commands?
Lest we dilute His commandments to accommodate our experience, Jesus outlines His expectations of obedience for both. Here’s what He expects from the first:
“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (Jn 13:34)
How did Jesus love us? By laying down His life for us (Jn 15:3). That’s a high standard of love! Indeed, there is no greater love. And what are His expectations regarding the second commandment:
“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these…” (Jn 14:12)
Believe in Jesus and you will do the works of Jesus. Put it altogether and Jesus is saying this:
“If you love me, you will love one another as I have loved you and your faith in me will lead to miracles like I have been doing and greater miracles still.”
If you’ve been in any church for at least five years, you will know that Jesus’ first commandment is pretty much humanly impossible to keep, while the second commandment is definitely impossible.
So the next time someone tries to lay a heavy burden on you by telling you that you must keep Jesus’ commandments to earn God’s love, just ask them how many people they’ve raised from the dead!
When they look puzzled, tell them that Jesus commanded us to believe in Him and He said that those who did would do the same works He did and greater works besides!
Now that we begin to understand what Jesus wasn’t saying – He wasn’t saying that we need to keep His commandments to prove our love – we’re ready to dig deeper into what He was saying.
That’s the subject of the next post. You won’t want to miss it. When you see what Jesus was promising His disciples and you, it’s going to blow you away!
Maybe you’ve been intimidated by John 14:15 and the other new covenant laws. If so, prepare to be set free. When you get a hold of the words of Jesus you’re going to be so pumped that you’ll want to frame them and hang them on your wall. Stay tuned!
Unquote:
Here is the link if anyone wants to look at the questions or to see the next post as he mentioned at the end of the article.
https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/03/john-14v15/
This is very true....worship is a lifestyle, prostrated before God...not sultry "worship" sets performed by girls in skinny jeans and their breasts/cleavage being exposed.......all performed in the dark with a choreographed light show and smoke machines bellowing out fake shekinah glory....
[h=1][/h]
[h=1][/h]
Hi Grace,
I asked you this once before with no answer.
Regarding John 14:15
You have it written two different ways as if it means two different things.
It means the same, no matter how you say it,,,no matter what you think.
Please explain how you think it's different.
Also, regarding these impossible to keep saying of Jesus.
Why did Jesus tell us to do things that are impossible to keep.
Wouldn't He have been smarter to tell us to do things that could actually be done?
I asked you this once before with no answer.
Regarding John 14:15
You have it written two different ways as if it means two different things.
It means the same, no matter how you say it,,,no matter what you think.
Please explain how you think it's different.
Also, regarding these impossible to keep saying of Jesus.
Why did Jesus tell us to do things that are impossible to keep.
Wouldn't He have been smarter to tell us to do things that could actually be done?
This is quite an accusation.
Now the reality is trusting God is about following in His teaching and ways.
The core of the accusation is how dare anyone suggest you can put faith in God,
and no matter what you do from then on will effect Gods salvation of your soul.
You know people are lying, not telling the truth, inventing scripture, distorting theology,
twisting arguments, assaulting people as the worst evil ever, because simply they cannot
accept God does not agree with them.
Jesus spent a long time saying you are chosen because of your walk, not birth, or joining
the right group, or believing the right ideas but actually by who you are and how you behave.
The whole point of Jesus coming to earth was to change who we are and how we behave.
It is ludicrous in the extreme, to take a God who talks in intimate detail about behaviour and
then suggest He has no concerns anymore about it. It is simply a lie.
It is why the early believers were called the people of the way, because it is a style and
approach to life, bringing holiness and Christ into all we do and say.
What has been missed by religious folk, is love transcends commands, and instruction, and
empowers victory. When you teach a child to ride a bicycle you do not expect them to
throw the bike down storm off and complain how dare you suggest you have to balance
and sit in the saddle to ride a bike. It is just mocking a none cyclist to show them how
to do it, and you are loved and accepted despite this is the only way to get out of the
coming disaster.
Jesus simply says learn, follow, walk, obey, sow, and reap in the Spirit. Yes it is not simple
or without challenges, but it is the only way.
Now the reality is trusting God is about following in His teaching and ways.
The core of the accusation is how dare anyone suggest you can put faith in God,
and no matter what you do from then on will effect Gods salvation of your soul.
You know people are lying, not telling the truth, inventing scripture, distorting theology,
twisting arguments, assaulting people as the worst evil ever, because simply they cannot
accept God does not agree with them.
Jesus spent a long time saying you are chosen because of your walk, not birth, or joining
the right group, or believing the right ideas but actually by who you are and how you behave.
The whole point of Jesus coming to earth was to change who we are and how we behave.
It is ludicrous in the extreme, to take a God who talks in intimate detail about behaviour and
then suggest He has no concerns anymore about it. It is simply a lie.
It is why the early believers were called the people of the way, because it is a style and
approach to life, bringing holiness and Christ into all we do and say.
What has been missed by religious folk, is love transcends commands, and instruction, and
empowers victory. When you teach a child to ride a bicycle you do not expect them to
throw the bike down storm off and complain how dare you suggest you have to balance
and sit in the saddle to ride a bike. It is just mocking a none cyclist to show them how
to do it, and you are loved and accepted despite this is the only way to get out of the
coming disaster.
Jesus simply says learn, follow, walk, obey, sow, and reap in the Spirit. Yes it is not simple
or without challenges, but it is the only way.
We were guest speaking in a service a few weeks ago and the worship leader and her team took the platform and she asked me to take the pulpit before they sang one song....her hubby is the pastor of the church and we minister with them many items a year....I took the platform and we just did nothing...no music , no nothing...no gifts manifesting, nothing....within 5 minutes the Spirit responded to our "worship" people were getting touched in their chairs...and not one pastor or leader had to raise a finger or their voice...we stayed in that place for 2 hours and then I dismissed....no music was ever played nothing...but the Spirit brooding/and loving and ministering to his people...it was great experience for the 12-35 year old in the house....
We are call to bask in his presence over the atmosphere.....The children of Israel never learned this...only 3 had presence and the glory...all others had atmosphere....
We are call to bask in his presence over the atmosphere.....The children of Israel never learned this...only 3 had presence and the glory...all others had atmosphere....