Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46,001
#46,001
John146 said:
Well, it says they were righteous before God. What brought about their righteousness? They were blameless when it came to following the law. Remember, the law is more than just commandments, but it also contained the proper methods to follow if one transgressed the law. One who followed the law completely would be blameless and righteous before God. But the righteousness of the law could not save. The righteousness of God through Jesus Christ saves.
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Can you show where it these “proper methods to follow” are?

If they were righteous according to the law. The they did noty need Jesus, they saved themselves.


 
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loveme1

Senior Member
#46,003
Oct 30, 2011
8,086
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#46,003
Those that Believe are free to Love GOD and each other because of the imputed Righteousness through Faith in the Lord.. Love and forgive as we are Loved and forgiven.. GOD’s Grace.. be grateful and Faithful to the King by observing His Royal Law... Believe unto the saving of our souls.. I am thankful to be under GOD’s Grace.. unworthy wretch.. but forever grateful.. at Liberty in Christ is a Blessing.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#46,004
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
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#46,004
eternally-gratefull said:
Can you show where it these “proper methods to follow” are?

If they were righteous according to the law. The they did noty need Jesus, they saved themselves.
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Sins were forgiven under the law, but they were not cleared of it.

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Exodus 34:7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation

Only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can clear a man's sin. That's the righteousness of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46,005
#46,005
John146 said:
Sins were forgiven under the law, but they were not cleared of it.

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Exodus 34:7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation

Only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can clear a man's sin. That's the righteousness of God.
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Not sure how this answers my question.

I asked where we are given proper methods in the law on how to keep it (obey Gods commands.)
 
Crustyone

Crustyone

Senior Member
#46,006
Mar 15, 2015
697
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#46,006
To Truth, Stones and Blue, as I have posted elsewhere, spinal decompression helps with disc problems. The big machines work, but we are charged about $250.00 per session and at least 10 sessions are suggested for relief and real bad problems require 30 sessions. When I went for mine the machines pulled me apart at 112 lbs pressure and increased 2 lbs every session to end at 130 lbs of traction. I have since found that I can gain relief by lying on my back, jacking my legs up, putting my hands on the top of my thighs down by the crease between body and thighs and pushing my legs away from my shoulders, hard. I increase the pressure slowly for one minute and then release it so as not to cause a radical release. Sometimes I will get a clunk when the spine aligns and other times it just creates more space between the vertebrae to relieve the pressure of the disc gel pushing against the spinal cord. If you decide to do it and are able to do it(arthritis), I hope it helps. Also, if you have weak bones I certainly would not recommend it.

My back is basically fine, now. I just lost control of some muscles and had some bad aches because of the gel pushing against my spinal cord and the spinal decompression took care of it for me.

Hope you don't mind me going off topic.
 
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beastslayer1970

Banned
#46,007
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
#46,007
Endoscopy said:
I never just look at a single verse or just a few verses. I put them in context. Here is the whole chapter. Those verses are easier to understand that way. Verse 12 sets the stage about how people will be judged. As Christians we have the law as written in the Torah. Therefore we have no excuse. Transgressing that law is sin. Without Christ we are doomed. The one and only sin that will not be forgiven is rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus. Rejecting him leaves a person to be judged by the law of God. Everyone fails that judgment. It doesn't matter if they know the law or not. They know they have done wrong things in their own minds. God knows their thoughts and hearts.


Romans 2 New International Version (NIV)

God’s Righteous Judgment

1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the richesof his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
The Jews and the Law

17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”[b]
25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
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You do know and understand that in Romans 1 Paul is talking about gentiles and then in Chapter 2 he is talking to the Jews?
And in chapter 3 he says ALL fall short. You know this right?

Romans 2:14-
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

How do you reconcile this verse with your insistence that Gentiles are under the Law of Moses?


 
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beastslayer1970

Banned
#46,008
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
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#46,008
Endoscopy said:
Simple answer is God and is found in the Torah. I said as much!! You seem to not want to hear. If you have a Bible then you have the law in the Torah aka Pentatauch aka Genesis through Deuteronomy.

Is that plain enough for you. Jesus said all of the law will stand forever. Live with it!!! Quit wiggling around trying to ignore it. Sin is violating the law contained in those books.
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Please answer this question are you a rabbinical or messianic Jew? or are you a gentile messianic Judaism believer?
 
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beastslayer1970

Banned
#46,009
Nov 6, 2017
674
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#46,009
Magenta said:
Not only that, but a person who puts them self under the law, will fail under the law, will die under the law, be judged under the law, and have all counts held against them, for breaking one is as breaking all, and will so be be fully condemned under the law. Not one jot or tittle shall be removed for them!
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How does a gentile person today put themselves under the Law of Moses? I may not be understanding your statement,s o sorry in advance if I am missing something.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#46,010
Nov 24, 2013
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#46,010
Crustyone said:
To Truth, Stones and Blue, as I have posted elsewhere, spinal decompression helps with disc problems. The big machines work, but we are charged about $250.00 per session and at least 10 sessions are suggested for relief and real bad problems require 30 sessions. When I went for mine the machines pulled me apart at 112 lbs pressure and increased 2 lbs every session to end at 130 lbs of traction. I have since found that I can gain relief by lying on my back, jacking my legs up, putting my hands on the top of my thighs down by the crease between body and thighs and pushing my legs away from my shoulders, hard. I increase the pressure slowly for one minute and then release it so as not to cause a radical release. Sometimes I will get a clunk when the spine aligns and other times it just creates more space between the vertebrae to relieve the pressure of the disc gel pushing against the spinal cord. If you decide to do it and are able to do it(arthritis), I hope it helps. Also, if you have weak bones I certainly would not recommend it.

My back is basically fine, now. I just lost control of some muscles and had some bad aches because of the gel pushing against my spinal cord and the spinal decompression took care of it for me.

Hope you don't mind me going off topic.
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We do it all the time. Just watch out....

IMG_1186.jpg

Glad it "works" for you.
 
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#46,011
Nov 24, 2013
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#46,011
Loveme....so close...

The royal law, love your neighbor as you love yourself. What happens if you hate yourself? Out of luck.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

A new commandment I give you, that you love others as I have loved you.

Rom 5:5

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
 
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beastslayer1970

Banned
#46,013
Nov 6, 2017
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#46,013
Endoscopy said:
I stand by what Jesus and Paul said. The law is eternal and it is how we know what sin is. We all fail under the Mosaic Law and only the fact that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected paying the price for our sin allows those who believe on him to not pay the penalty for our sins. What makes that so wonderful is God knowing the end from the begining still chose creation of the heavens and earth.
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Paul says gentiles were never under the law only Jews were.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#46,014
Jul 3, 2015
56,264
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#46,014
Endoscopy keeps saying Jesus said the law is eternal, but that is not what Jesus said. He said, "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." As we should know, Jesus has fulfilled the law. Heaven and earth are still here, but they will not always be as they are, for they are to be destroyed and a new heavens and earth created.
 
7777pinacled

7777pinacled

Banned
#46,016
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
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#46,016
Magenta said:
Endoscopy keeps saying Jesus said the law is eternal, but that is not what Jesus said. He said, "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." As we should know, Jesus has fulfilled the law. Heaven and earth are still here, but they will not always be as they are, for they are to be destroyed and a new heavens and earth created.
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Exactly.
And i imagine a world of Blessings to come, Faith increasing upon each miracle witnessed.
 
7777pinacled

7777pinacled

Banned
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Dec 4, 2017
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#46,017
Snoozy said:
romans 6:14-15 is clear.

u dont rightly divide the word of truth. big mistake.
Jesus came to fulfill the law. Jesus Himself lived under the law.

we are not under the law. the mosaic law isnt for the christian and never was. this doesnt mean sin dont exist.

u seem to be mixed up in false doctrine.
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the term mosiac law is far to oblique, sorry.
perhaps levitical priesthood would be a better explaination. Even so, the Body that cast the shadow is......
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#46,018
Jul 3, 2015
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#46,018
beastslayer1970 said:
How does a gentile person today put themselves under the Law of Moses? I may not be understanding your statement, so sorry in advance if I am missing something.
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It is people who call themselves "Christian" who put themselves under the law. Sometimes they are called Judaizers, or Hebrew roots movement etc, and they are often Sabbatizers, claiming everyone but those who worship like them is breaking the law, for they reject Jesus as their Sabbath rest, embracing the shadow rather than the substance. As to Gentiles (non-believers) and the law, since they are not covered by grace through faith in the righteous shed blood of the spotless Lamb of God, they will be condemned by the law at the resurrection and judgment of all.
 
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