Not By Works

[lightbearer]

Re: Not By Works for it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

This is the key verse to understanding James

[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:12


James is writing to the Jews, who are learning how to come out from under the Law and what role works have to play in their final judgment.

The question of faith has already been settled, we are saved by faith, James knew this he was a born again believer.

James is teaching on the profitable life of the Christian and being judged by the law of liberty when we stand before God
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:12

Those under the law of liberty are already justified by faith in Christ.

Faith alone does not profit because we are already justified by faith, for the believer’s judgement before God it is works that will be Rewarded, that is why he is stressing works

As well, he plainly states that dead faith, is faith that is alone….works are not to save but to bear witness of who we are in Christ and for eternal rewards.

Dead here means ineffective to show who were are in Christ ....NOT for salvation.

James spoke ofthe Engrafted Word, the Law of Liberty, which is the New Covenant; the Gospel. This is the Mystery which is now revealed, the Gospel. Christ in us the hope of Glory. And by this we will be Judged.

In James 1:18 God says, Of his own will begat HE us with the word of truth,that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Born again is how Jesus said it. A new creation in Christ Jesus. Paul writes through The Spirit in Colossians, "Having put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge, after the image of him that created him.

Therefore he reasons, put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy,filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that yehave put off the old man with his deeds".

This is what James is alluding to. That we should be a kind of first fruits of His creatures.

Please lesson carefully as we continue in James 1:21, "layapart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meeknessthe engrafted word."

The engrafted Word, His commandants written in the heart and mind, the Law of Liberty. The Law of freedom, freedom from the slavery of sin through engrafted Word; Christ Jesus. For God had said through Jesus, Verily, verily, I say unto you,Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant (the sinner)abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Sontherefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Who his own self bareour sins in his own body on the tree, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry ofreconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world untohimself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto usthe word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled toGod. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

For He has said, the Word is nigh thee (engrafted) in thy mouth and thy heartthat we may do it This is that which is able to save our souls. Be ye doers of the word (engrafted word), and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves as James continues to say. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass, but forgot what manner man he was. Which is now the new man which is after the image of Him who created him. For of His own will begat He us, to do by nature the things contained in the law, showing the work of the law written in our hearts, being partakers of His divine nature.

But whoso looketh into the perfect Law of Liberty (the engrafted word), that which is begotten of Him, the new man after the image of Him that created him. The first fruit of His creatures, renewed through the law; His Word engrafted in the heart and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work,this man shall be blessed in his deed. (Col 3:8-10;Rom 2:14-15; 2Pe 1:3,4; John8:34-36; 1Pe 2:24-25; Rom 6:6-7; Col 2:11-12; Jas 1:18, 21-25; Heb 8:10; Rom8:10)

 

[Budman]

My, oh my, things haven't changed very much around here!

 

[BillG]

Thank you Bill that means a lot to me. I enjoy your posts as well. You have a unique way of connecting my heart to truths in Scripture. Sometimes you use a personal story or a simple illustration, but from what I’ve seen you are a brilliant example of your God given message. Just to love people well.

Thank you for your words and encouragement .

 

[dcontroversal]

That is the difference. I look at myself from my new Creation in Christ. I don't look at my salvation. My salvation is a done deal. I would offend and blaspheme Him if I thought my salvation was at stake.

We need to name and site sins and EVIL(OUR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS/GOOD) to God to get back in fellowship with Him. Not to regain salvation/maintain salvation/get saved.

Amen......sonship is not the same as fellowship.....one is eternally based upon that initial act of faith into the cross on our behalf which equals being born again, from above by seed that is INCORRUPTABLE.....AFTER SALVATION our fellowship (walk with God) is based upon faithfulness and walking in the light as he is in the light.....The bible is clear on these two issues.....to conflate the two is to miss the mark on both of them....!

 

[dcontroversal]

And we need to remember that biblical Hope is not our modern day understanding of Hope.

Biblical Hope is certain, sure, going to happen. I am CERTAINLY going to be glorified in Christ(even if I am the least.) Absolutely, positively and no doubt I am sealed for the day of redemption.

Amen....a confident expectation in something that is guaranteed....we can rest sure in the promises of Christ and the eternal life given by faith through salvation!

 

[UnderGrace]

I do understand what you are saying and agree in part, for certain adding works was present then and continues to be a problem, but I really do not think the sinners prayer, a more modern invention, was something that is being discussed.

I think I see what your saying,

Again, I see it differently, If sanctification was in context. James would have never said, Can this (faith apart from works) Save you.

He would have never said in this way Abraham was justified (saved) by works also.

Context here is salvation. Not rewards gained by works.

also, I see no place in James chapter 1 or 2 where the jewish people asked. “What role does works play” What I do see is James asking all those who he is written get to to test their faith, ie, is your faith real? Are you hearers of the word only, or are you also doers.

I see it like this.

Paul. Spoke to people who tried to add works to salvation.

Pauls words, we are saved by grace through faith (faith always works. It is not dead) and not of works, lest anyone should be puffed up.

James. Speaking to people who are hearers of the word only, deceiving themselves. His question,

If you CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH (He never said they had faith, He said they CLAIMED to have faith) but have no work, can your faith SAVE YOU? (Again, no mention of rewards) True faith will produce true words (see EPh 2: 10. Paul agrees) if you do not have the works true faith will produce, What good is your claimed faith? It is useless. I can say I have faith until I am blue in the face, if my faith is dead. it has no life to save me, thats why I do not produce works.

I see it like this.

Jews who were steeped in law and DOING heard this new gospel. Which said it is not by works, it is by faith we are saved. So they were FREE from law. And misunderstood paul to be saying we just have to say a prayer and we are saved, thus we can live however we want (be hearers of the word only) because it does not matter, I am saved only (the very thing Fran, and Peter and Ralph and others who have come are against, and what they THINK we teach, because they do not understand what we believe.

So james, as well as Jude and even peter at times (when peter said Pauls words were sometimes hard to understand, I believe this is what he was talking about)

What was james point? The sinners prayer will not save you, if there is no faith, I can believe in god all I want, what good will it do? Even demons believe, It takes true living fath to save us, Those who have true living faith, will have the works paul said we all would have in eph 2: 10, James did not contradict paul/ He just said the same thing paul said in a different context, so it appears to be different.

and ps. I did not learn this from any church or pastor. I studied this on my own, and later found out other people believed this also.

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter tried to walk on water not simply swim.

Amen....not to mention...In the grace you are, having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT IF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD AND NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

 

[Budman]

AFTER SALVATION our fellowship (walk with God) is based upon faithfulness and walking in the light as he is in the light

I recently read an article on this. Allow me to quote a passage from it.

In the New Covenant now, even if you mess up and sin, it doesn’t cut you off from God or break your access to Him, in any way! In the Old Covenant it did. That’s because the Old Covenant was a covenant cut between God and man. It was a covenant, where your relationship with God and the blessings or punishment you’d receive from Him, were all based on your keeping of the Law of God. If you kept the Law you would be blessed, and if you broke it you would be cursed. The problem is, because of mans fallen state, it is impossible for anyone to perfectly keep the high standards of Gods Law. Man is always going to fall short and therefore suffer the consequences. One of the consequences is broken fellowship with God. But the New Covenant is a covenant that God didn’t make with man, but between the Father and the Son, Jesus. That’s why it’s not reliant on our performance but on Christ perfect performance. God brought us into Christ and that’s how we come into this New Covenant. This is a much better arrangement!

The good news is that now God relates to you through Christ’s perfect righteousness in you, and not your performance whether good or bad! Therefore you can have perfect and unbroken fellowship with God 24/7.

 

[UnderGrace]

Nice to have had you here even if only for a short while

Not only does it undermine His simple salvation plan. It attacks His very character and nature and virtue.

We end up being "fact checkers", "evidence checkers" And check mark him and her off the salvation list and go on to the next poor soul to 'see' if they are really saved or not. And have left a slew of possible true witness opportunities(Actual Divine Good/works/fruit) behind us.

 

[dcontroversal]

Your talking about justification and sanctification,
Justification is instant and sure when we have true faith. Sanctification is a work of a lifetime that never ends. Christ in us.

No, actually sanctification is dual in usage....Hebrews states clearly we are sanctified in Christ eternally by salvation and justification.....it is our daily walk alone that requires the process of sanctification thru growth and maturity dia a study and application of the word!

 

[dcontroversal]

A true personal relationship with Jesus will result in Justification, Sanctification and Glorification.

False.....therefore we conclude a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS.....We have been RENDERED INNOCENT IN CHRIST BY FAITH AND AN APPLICATION OF THE BLOOD....VERB TENSE PROVES SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED, GLORIFIED AND THIS IS EXACTLY HOW GOD LOOKS AT US.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I asked someone educated in Greek if it's possible that's what James was saying. He said no.

Besides, the context of the passage is justification, not saving people out of their misery. The person who has faith without works can not be justified as being a person who has faith. The absence of lawful works shows him to not have faith.

The confession of your faith alone does not justify you as having saving faith in Christ. Your work does. The person who has no works of righteousness can not justify his claim to have faith in Christ because he has no works that would justify his claim to believe in Christ. That's why we are called hypocrites by unbelievers. We don't have lives that justify our claim to know Christ and be saved. Even they know the logic of 'wisdom is proved right by her children'.

Same drivel Fran pushed and proves your source has no understanding of Greek.......verb tense alone refutes your post and source .....as well as the word TRANSLATED IN.....

 

[BillG]

A true personal relationship with Jesus will result in Justification, Sanctification and Glorification.

When we come to Jesus and our relationship is restored are we then justified, which leads to sanctification?

Can we justify ourselves and sanctify ourselves?

If we have been justified are we not sanctified?
Set apart to be Holy?

 

[dcontroversal]

The context of james is people who CLAIM to have faith, but are hearers of the word only. It has nothing to do with faith alone. It is a dead faith

A dead’s faith is no faith at all. It is not faiht alone. Faiht is NEVER ALONE

James did not contradict paul. You people want to make the Bible apposed to its self. Why you can not see this amazes me

We know the answer......to understand the word one must be born from above.....a false gospel has no power to save... <---why the world cannot see nor understand the word nor the biblical plan of salvation....not saying who is or ks not....just that one must be saved to understand the word

 

[dcontroversal]

I guess it depends on what he means by




This statement to me means not existent, how can it be non-existent?

If it is dead it existed at some point, that is what James is saying.

Only EG can clarify....but I do have a feeling we do not agree.

I think the key is in the verbiage.....note the difference in the following and which one James uses...

like a

is

 

[posthuman]

Those who do not have works to show on the day Christ comes back show they do not have faith in Christ and are unbelievers at that moment and will be lost not saved.

it's written, and repeated, "all who call on the name of the LORD shall be saved"

which work is this? what does "call on the name of the LORD" mean?

here's an example:

And they came to Jericho. And as he was leaving Jericho with his disciples and a great crowd, Bartimaeus, a blind beggar, the son of Timaeus, was sitting by the roadside. And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” And many rebuked him, telling him to be silent. But he cried out all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!”
And Jesus stopped and said, “Call him.” And they called the blind man, saying to him, “Take heart. Get up; He is calling you.” And throwing off his cloak, he sprang up and came to Jesus. And Jesus said to him, “What do you want me to do for you?” And the blind man said to Him, “Rabbi, let me recover my sight.” And Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your faith has made you well.” And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him on the way.
(Mark 10:46-52) ​

yes, Bartimaeus followed Him. and he was made well before he got up and followed Him - immediately - by his faith. what faith? what works did he do that showed his faith? one thing he did, only: he called out to the Lord Christ for mercy, and did so persistently despite the rebuke of the people.
after He opened his eyes, Jesus said to him, "go your way"
Bartimaeus, now able to see, knew which way to go. perhaps to people, this proved his faith. to God, his faith was already proven - when he called out for mercy. this did not however prove his faith to men.

 

[posthuman]

Only when they conveniently grab for the once saved always argument to justify their lack of works and being saved despite that.

maybe some people say this because they are actually praising God for His faithfulness and lovingkindness

((as opposed to the assumption that they are saying this expressly to justify loving wickedness))

 

[7777pinacled]

I recently read an article on this. Allow me to quote a passage from it.

In the New Covenant now, even if you mess up and sin, it doesn’t cut you off from God or break your access to Him, in any way! In the Old Covenant it did. That’s because the Old Covenant was a covenant cut between God and man. It was a covenant, where your relationship with God and the blessings or punishment you’d receive from Him, were all based on your keeping of the Law of God. If you kept the Law you would be blessed, and if you broke it you would be cursed. The problem is, because of mans fallen state, it is impossible for anyone to perfectly keep the high standards of Gods Law. Man is always going to fall short and therefore suffer the consequences. One of the consequences is broken fellowship with God. But the New Covenant is a covenant that God didn’t make with man, but between the Father and the Son, Jesus. That’s why it’s not reliant on our performance but on Christ perfect performance. God brought us into Christ and that’s how we come into this New Covenant. This is a much better arrangement!

The good news is that now God relates to you through Christ’s perfect righteousness in you, and not your performance whether good or bad! Therefore you can have perfect and unbroken fellowship with God 24/7.

And i would add that distinguishing the Blessings from curses is a good thing.
The (Old covenant)scriptures only spoke of someone being cut off as a branch when they worshiped another nations god, also known as drinking from the cup of devils.
A person drinking from the cup of the Lord will have no such issue.
The head of man is Christ.
And blessed be the one who comes in the name of................

 

[7777pinacled]

For the O.P
another example of good works.

[FONT=&quot]Then children were brought to him so that he might lay his hands on them and pray for them, but the talmidim rebuked the people bringing them.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 However, Yeshua said,
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Let the children come to me, don’t stop them, for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]15 Then, after laying his hands on them, he went on his way.[/FONT]

 

[posthuman]

This is the key verse to understanding James

[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:12


James is writing to the Jews, who are learning how to come out from under the Law and what role works have to play in their final judgment.

The question of faith has already been settled, we are saved by faith, James knew this he was a born again believer.

James is teaching on the profitable life of the Christian and being judged by the law of liberty when we stand before God
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:12

Those under the law of liberty are already justified by faith in Christ.

Faith alone does not profit because we are already justified by faith, for the believer’s judgement before God it is works that will be Rewarded, that is why he is stressing works

As well, he plainly states that dead faith, is faith that is alone….works are not to save but to bear witness of who we are in Christ and for eternal rewards.

Dead here means ineffective to show who were are in Christ ....NOT for salvation.

another thing key to understanding James is not neglecting the beginning of chapter 2 - which sets the whole context.
James is reprimanding believers who are showing deferential treatment to the rich, to the neglect of the poor.

showing partiality to the rich is the example he uses of breaking one part of the law being guilty of all of it.

refusing to give meaningful, physical help to those who are starving and freezing to death is the example he uses of having a profession of faith and no works to back it up.

love one another is the example he gives of what they should be doing, and he calls it "the law of our King"

this is all in the general context of interacting with others - in particular with other believers - showing them love without dissimulation or judgement predicated on material things, by expressing that love materially, and in the specific context of treating rich people - who are more than likely converted pharisees, who have many 'works' to boast of - better than poor people - who are more than likely 'sinners' who have come to belief and repentance, in the cultural context.

he's talking about loving one another with more than mere words. about being who you really are​.