Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
ya think so? They had them and it did not solve problems, yes many came to christ and many churches were started, but they were still killed by the religious people who thought thay were against God.

As Jesus said, a wickd and adulterous generation seeks a sign and none will be given,
.....

i agree

i believe many of those who seek to establish their own righteousness not willing to submit to the righteousness of Jesus which is imputed to all who believe in Him by grace through faith even if Jesus was explaining it to them



face to face

like nicodemus or the pharisees who believed they would be saved by their obedience to the law (works)
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
.....

i agree

i believe many of those who seek to establish their own righteousness not willing to submit to the righteousness of Jesus which is imputed to all who believe in Him by grace through faith would refuse the truth even if Jesus was explaining it to them



face to face

like nicodemus or the pharisees who believed they would be saved by their obedience to the law (works)


whoops corrected my typo in the quote
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
mark 4

3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.


______________

14 The sower soweth the word.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

called but not chosen <- no saving faith
not born again.... no root

their hearts were not transformed but rejected the seed
they would reject Him the moment they hear of the truth

____________

16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves
, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

again no root... not born again
no enduring faith

trials and tribulations were enough to prove they did not have a saving faith

______________

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.


no saving faith... they turn from the knowledge of God to jump back into a life of living in and justifying sin and worldly pleasures instead of accepting they are wicked and need Him

(like the reprobate)
never born again

Romans 1
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

____________



20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.


theeeese are born again sons/daughters of God
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


and unlike demons who know of Him but have no faith IN Him

there is fruit due to being rooted IN Him

(born again by grace through faith.... not works)

1 peter


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

we are those who no doubt continue in the faith

1 john 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
not those who fall away into unbelief






(posted this in another thread while back.... it applies here too... we are saved by grace through faith not of works.... when we are born again we are rooted IN Christ... and we are those who were called AND chosen.... not the reprobate... not those who dont believe... not those who believe in a false gospel.... we are saved already and we are those who He will in no wise cast out)


and endo

we arent saved after we produce fruit


or works


fruit is a result of being rooted in Christ

plain and simple
Your analysis of the parable of the sower is not correct. Those seed thrown on stony ground or into thorny patches are those Christians who heard the word and accepted and were born again and started with great faith, but as the tempest broke over them and persecution and temptations battered them, they finally gave up on Jesus and went back to the world. What they once regarded highly, they gave away, and lost. Jesus will try his hardest to bring them back, but if they do not hear his promptings they will lose their salvation.

That was the point of the parable. Some will not receive because satan will act quickly. Others will receive, be born again, but will give it up, and lose everything they had. Others will receive, be born again, and will produce.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,334
113
Your analysis of the parable of the sower is not correct. Those seed thrown on stony ground or into thorny patches are those Christians who heard the word and accepted and were born again and started with great faith, but as the tempest broke over them and persecution and temptations battered them, they finally gave up on Jesus and went back to the world. What they once regarded highly, they gave away, and lost. Jesus will try his hardest to bring them back, but if they do not hear his promptings they will lose their salvation.

That was the point of the parable. Some will not receive because satan will act quickly. Others will receive, be born again, but will give it up, and lose everything they had. Others will receive, be born again, and will produce.
What's your thoughts on the following?


John 18:8-9


8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

John 6:38-40
38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”

Does God promise to save those he has given to Jesus?

Yes or no?

If not

Ecclesiastes 5:4-7
4 When you make a promise to God, don’t delay in following through, for God takes no pleasure in fools. Keep all the promises you make to him. 5 It is better to say nothing than to make a promise and not keep it. 6 Don’t let your mouth make you sin. And don’t defend yourself by telling the Temple messenger that the promise you made was a mistake. That would make God angry, and he might wipe out everything you have achieved.
7 Talk is cheap, like daydreams and other useless activities. Fear God instead.

So in a sense if God cannot keep his promise????
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Your analysis of the parable of the sower is not correct.
Your analysis of my analysis isn't correct.... just like when you were wrong when you thought born of flesh = water baptism.....( not childbirth which is actually what being born of flesh means);)
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
jesus showed you how, when you love all people. And hate yourself

thats more important is it not, in order to do what you are saying, my focus would have to be continually on self, how am I doing, am I good today? Am I bad today, what do I have to do to be better,

jesus never worried of these things, he saw people and focused on them in all he did, i pay every day i do this more and more, my life is in christs hands, my needs are met, i need to serve others and meet their needs, that is how we bcome christlike
God told us why he loved Jesus. So do you hate iniquity and love righteousness? Serving others and meeting their needs is a good work that tells me you love righteousness. Good going.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
What's your thoughts on the following?


John 18:8-9


8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

John 6:38-40
38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”

Does God promise to save those he has given to Jesus?

Yes or no?

If not

Ecclesiastes 5:4-7
4 When you make a promise to God, don’t delay in following through, for God takes no pleasure in fools. Keep all the promises you make to him. 5 It is better to say nothing than to make a promise and not keep it. 6 Don’t let your mouth make you sin. And don’t defend yourself by telling the Temple messenger that the promise you made was a mistake. That would make God angry, and he might wipe out everything you have achieved.
7 Talk is cheap, like daydreams and other useless activities. Fear God instead.

So in a sense if God cannot keep his promise????
amen brother

He will not lose even one of His own
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
God told us why he loved Jesus. So do you hate iniquity and love righteousness? Serving others and meeting their needs is a good work that tells me you love righteousness. Good going.

Stop focusing on self (performance) and start focusing on others (service) until you do that, don’t talk to me about what you think christ did, because you do not yet understand,

of course jesus loved rihteousness and hated iniquity but that is not what empowered him to walk righteously, it was his love of ohers, and sacrifice of self that did.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
.....

i agree

i believe many of those who seek to establish their own righteousness not willing to submit to the righteousness of Jesus which is imputed to all who believe in Him by grace through faith even if Jesus was explaining it to them



face to face

like nicodemus or the pharisees who believed they would be saved by their obedience to the law (works)
thankfully nicodemus and saul showed us how to get out, by placing their faith in christ, and not their works like they had been doing.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Search the Bible and it will lead you to redemption and salvation.

Definition:

Biblical infallibility
is the belief that what the Bible says regarding matters of faith and Christian practice is wholly useful and true. It is the "belief that the Bible is completely trustworthy as a guide to salvation and the life of faith and will not fail to accomplish its purpose.
So when the bible says that Jesus tells us we must forgive all men their trespasses against us, then God will forgive all your trespasses against Him, we do that without question, right?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So when the bible says that Jesus tells us we must forgive all men their trespasses against us, then God will forgive all your trespasses against Him, we do that without question, right?
if you think your saved because you forgave someone who did you wrong, you have serious issues my friend.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
You have a lot to learn if you think I am witnessing....more like standing against the false religious rigmarole that you espouse and push
Insulting is not witnessing. It just creates anger. You ignored the simple fact that the early elders had differences of opinion about Biblical issues. You ignored they created doctrinal statements to identify the core beliefs. The Roman Creed was created in the 200s and by 390 they updated it to the Apostles Creed. You keep ranting about this doctrinal statement but have never stated where it is in error. Please point out the errors in it.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Stop focusing on self (performance) and start focusing on others (service) until you do that, don’t talk to me about what you think christ did, because you do not yet understand,

of course jesus loved rihteousness and hated iniquity but that is not what empowered him to walk righteously, it was his love of ohers, and sacrifice of self that did.
amen


It is His perfect righteousness that will be imputed to who so ever believes on His name. ;)


1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
___________
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

_______________

romans 3

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe
: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
____________
Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith


romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
thankfully nicodemus and saul showed us how to get out, by placing their faith in christ, and not their works like they had been doing.
me and a sister were talking about why God has placed this specific stumbling block there just the other day

romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,334
113
jesus showed you how, when you love all people. And hate yourself

thats more important is it not, in order to do what you are saying, my focus would have to be continually on self, how am I doing, am I good today? Am I bad today, what do I have to do to be better,

jesus never worried of these things, he saw people and focused on them in all he did, i pay every day i do this more and more, my life is in christs hands, my needs are met, i need to serve others and meet their needs, that is how we bcome christlike
Amen EG.

Jesus never worried about such things.
He knew who he was and is.
If you see me you see the Father.

Jesus told us not worry about anything but trust the Father.
He went about the business of the Father.

When we see him and are in him we need not worry, but when we do he is there for us.

Just like we should be for others.

Security and insecurity?

If we are secure then what if we are insecure then what?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen EG.

Jesus never worried about such things.
He knew who he was and is.
If you see me you see the Father.

Jesus told us not worry about anything but trust the Father.
He went about the business of the Father.

When we see him and are in him we need not worry, but when we do he is there for us.

Just like we should be for others.

Security and insecurity?

If we are secure then what if we are insecure then what?

I like how paul put it, when we see him we will be like him because we will see him for who he is, Pure love

we can just glimmer at his love in this lifetime, hope to grow and understand it, and continue to run that race and be like him,

but we will not b exacly like him till we see him.l so keep focused on hm, not self, because you have not made it yet.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
me and a sister were talking about why God has placed this specific stumbling block there just the other day

romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Sadly many people here are still tripping over that stumblingrock.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
amen


It is His perfect righteousness that will be imputed to who so ever believes on His name. ;)


1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
___________
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

_______________

romans 3

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe
: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
____________
Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith


romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Will they ever get it? Lets pray