Not By Works

[PeterJens]

The Genesis 3:5 I referenced is Satan's lie to Adam, that stated if he didn't believe God, that he could be like God, Adam then decided this was a good idea and decided not to believe God. You know the rest. (I'm paraphrasing)

It seems to me you believe the same lie, because you want to be like God, and you don't fully trust the finished work of the cross.

The bridge between us is vast, because you see a different world to me.
I know your theology and way of looking at things. Why I reject it is because
it says sin has defeated us and the cross is just a get out of jail free though
we are still bound. That is unbelief in the plain language of both Jesus and the
apostles who preach victory and freedom through discipleship and faith.

What I am saying comes from faith and experience of Christ.
It all starts in repentance and knowing Gods heart, and holiness.

We all come to Christ for our own reasons, and how we grow in Him
is based on that root. I just follow His word and His teaching through the
Holy Spirit. God bless you, and may you find His peace and victory.

I know how you view me, but unless you can get out of your bubble you
will see nothing else.

 

[limey410]

The bridge between us is vast, because you see a different world to me.
I know your theology and way of looking at things. Why I reject it is because
it says sin has defeated us and the cross is just a get out of jail free though
we are still bound. That is unbelief in the plain language of both Jesus and the
apostles who preach victory and freedom through discipleship and faith.

What I am saying comes from faith and experience of Christ.
It all starts in repentance and knowing Gods heart, and holiness.

We all come to Christ for our own reasons, and how we grow in Him
is based on that root. I just follow His word and His teaching through the
Holy Spirit. God bless you, and may you find His peace and victory.

I know how you view me, but unless you can get out of your bubble you
will see nothing else.

Sin has not defeated us, Jesus has defeated sin.

 

[PeterJens]

Sin has not defeated us, Jesus has defeated sin.

Then show it by your walk, or else it is just a pipe dream, and you are no
better than anyone in the world.

 

[limey410]

Then show it by your walk, or else it is just a pipe dream, and you are no
better than anyone in the world.

You don't my walk Peter, you only know my stance on Salvation.

 

[limey410]

Then show it by your walk, or else it is just a pipe dream, and you are no
better than anyone in the world.

And I am no better than anyone in the world. Better off, but not better.

 

[preacher4truth]

And I am no better than anyone in the world. Better off, but not better.

Amen!! Great post brother!

 

[followjesus]

Luk 17:7　 "Suppose a man among you has a servant plowing or watching sheep. Would he say to him when he comes in from the field, 'Come at once and have something to eat'?　


Luk 17:8　 Of course not. Instead, he would say to him, 'Get dinner ready for me, and put on your apron and wait on me until I eat and drink. Then you can eat and drink.'
　
Luk 17:9　 He doesn't praise the servant for doing what was commanded, does he?　


Luk 17:10　 That's the way it is with you. When you have done everything you were ordered to do, say, 'We are worthless servants. We have done only what we ought to have done.'"


What's the point of this?

　

Humility. is that lesson, no matter what you have done for God, remain in the Knowledge that " I am nothing, Jesus is all"

what does He say of the servant who doesnt do His masters will? " He will be cut to peices and assigned a place with the doge Later Jesus says this about those who do not do His will?

matt. 24:51 "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

thats the difference between Knowing Gods will and doing it, and knowing it and not doing it. the one who does what His master taught His result is in v 47"Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his (the masters) goods."

the difference is whether we accept and follow the things Jesus taught. He paid a very High price to purchase us from sin and death, we owe Jesus Christ every efort we can muster, we owe Him our faithfulness, and service and those who accepot that in truth He says this....

John 15:13-15"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14YE ARE MY FRIENDS, IF YE DO WHATSOEVER I COMMAND YOU,<<<. 15HENCEFORTH<<< I call you NOT servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you FRIENDS; for ALL THINGS that I have HEARD OF MY FATHER I have made known unto YOU. [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"

What we do with what We have been Given will determine eternity for us


[/FONT]

 

[followjesus]

Sin has not defeated us, Jesus has defeated sin.

thats why we arent able to use the excuse any longer that we have no power to walk in righteousness, sin becomes our choice the moment we come and accept Jesus. beforehand it was our master and we were slaves. a slave doesnt have a choice, He is ruled over by a greater power.

Jesus came with freedom from sin as you said He defeated it for us, Gave us the freedom to walk right before God through Learning the truth and leaving the deception. its about Jesus and His word, thats where freedom from sin is found whether we" really keep it

John 8:31-34 " Then said Jesus to those Jews which BELIEVED ON HIM << ( believers), If ye CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know THE TRUTH, and the truth shall make you FREE. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free???? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

continuing in Jesus word is freedom from sin. again here from paul a letter written to the believers of rome.

romans 6:16-18 "Know ye not, that to whom ye YEILD yourselves servants TO OBEY, his servants YE ARE to whom ye obey; whether OF SIN UNTO DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? 17But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, but YE HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of DOCTRINE which was delivered you. 18Being THEN MADE FREE from sin, ye became the SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS."


hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"


we have all got to learn to obey the Lord Jesus Christ , which im sure you already know

 

[limey410]

Sin has been overcome so that the Holy Spirit is able to live with us, inside us. So that God can dwell in His creation and have a relationship with us, so that we can know Him. My focus is no longer sin, my focus is on my new relationship with a God that no longer holds my sin against me. I can now live in the Spirit with whom there is no condemnation. With that new life I would hope to see in myself the desire to sin decrease, as God fulfills in me everything that was missing before I was saved. I trust Him to complete the work in me that He started.

 

[PeterJens]

And I am no better than anyone in the world. Better off, but not better.

If we walk worthy of Christ in righteousness, we are better than the world.
How could we be a light or salt if we behave no better than the world?

There is a distinction between being loved and valued as a person, which all are,
and being counted worthy or chosen by the Living God.

A sinner turned saint has to be different or else the gospel is in vain and salvation
is unobtainable.

In Christ we are humbled before the throne, but in cleansing, we become children
of the living God. If Gods people are the same as the lost, nothing has value or
makes sense. We have this precious gift of life to share and its effect in our
lives, the fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[Grace777x70]

Part of the deception in the garden was that Eve and Adam in the original sin was about seeking "goodness" from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

They wanted to be like God by their own "doing" without God.

All works-based and works-righteousness belief systems operate from this very same principle which is why they are antagonistic against the truth that Christ alone is our righteousness and that it is a gift by grace through faith in Christ's work alone.

This is really the fruit of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which is this world's belief system and ironically those that are seeking to be righteous by what they do or don't do are actually the very ones being "worldly".

They are eating from the wrong tree.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.


The law of Moses was a system of doing or not doing in order to achieve righteousness and it is actually a manifestation of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[PeterJens]

Doing - action rather than passivity

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
Luke 10:37

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:22

Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.
John 8:51

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching."
John 14:23-24

Do you love Jesus? Show by your actions.

 

[PeterJens]

The false dichotomy, or split is the idea obeying Christ can be done in ones
own strength or Gods.

Only those born again, who have repented, confessed and sought forgiveness
in Christ through the cross have the power to walk in Gods ways.

Only they can choose to flesh or the Spirit, for only they have the Spirit.

Those who do not know Christ there is nothing to say to them, because they
need to repent of their sins and truth the Lord.

What is odd is how some feel there is merit in preaching legalism to the elect,
as if they do not know freedom in the Spirit and the law of Christ.

It only makes sense if truly this is all about excluding those who want to come
to Christ from the Kingdom and confuse the righteous by calling them hypocrites
and liars.

We are warned this in the last times.

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:24

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.
2 Peter 2:1

he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)
2 Peter 2:7-8

But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand.
2 Peter 2:12

With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood!
2 Peter 2:14

For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity
2 Peter 2:18-19

 

[limey410]

If we walk worthy of Christ in righteousness, we are better than the world.
How could we be a light or salt if we behave no better than the world?

There is a distinction between being loved and valued as a person, which all are,
and being counted worthy or chosen by the Living God.

A sinner turned saint has to be different or else the gospel is in vain and salvation
is unobtainable.

In Christ we are humbled before the throne, but in cleansing, we become children
of the living God. If Gods people are the same as the lost, nothing has value or
makes sense. We have this precious gift of life to share and its effect in our
lives, the fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

You originally said better than anyone in the world.

 

[PeterJens]

If we walk worthy of Christ in righteousness, we are better than the world.
How could we be a light or salt if we behave no better than the world?

There is a distinction between being loved and valued as a person, which all are,
and being counted worthy or chosen by the Living God.

A sinner turned saint has to be different or else the gospel is in vain and salvation
is unobtainable.

In Christ we are humbled before the throne, but in cleansing, we become children
of the living God. If Gods people are the same as the lost, nothing has value or
makes sense. We have this precious gift of life to share and its effect in our
lives, the fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

You originally said better than anyone in the world.

Please show me where I said this and what you are implying if anything.

I always talk about walking in the ways of Jesus and this becoming real.
So I stand by my testimony. I think it is very plain and simple but I am happy to clarify.

 

[limey410]

Please show me where I said this and what you are implying if anything.

I always talk about walking in the ways of Jesus and this becoming real.
So I stand by my testimony. I think it is very plain and simple but I am happy to clarify.

Post #7843

 

[limey410]

Doing - action rather than passivity

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
Luke 10:37

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:22

Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.
John 8:51

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching."
John 14:23-24

Do you love Jesus? Show by your actions.

I am surely not against doing good works, my stance is that they have nothing to do with salvation. Also my love for Jesus has nothing to do with works either. Do you believe that God desires quid pro quo? He does for you, you do for Him. If so we certainly would not have everything we need for life and godliness.

 

[FranC]

And you never answered my question of HOW works can keep us saved, when they don't save us to begin with.

I've answered many times Blue.
Every time I post a word of Jesus where He says that we are to obey Him, I'm answering you.

Are we to obey Jesus or not?
And what are we supposed to obey Him about?

Think of this on your own since you don't accept what I say and I don't blame you for that. You kind of have to come to the undersanding on your own. We all do.

What exactly did Jesus tell us to do?

 

[FranC]

You tell me how that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world and then I'll know the answer to the works God had prepared before hand that we are to walk out.

I am not afraid of righteousness at all. I have posted many, many times on the righteousness of God in Christ and how that there are deeds of righteousness. What I am against is self-righteousness and in thinking that doing good deeds makes one righteous. Only Christ makes us righteous because of His finished work on the cross.

I agree.

As far as works before the foundation of the world. I don't know what this means. It might have something to do with what you consider to be works.

Jesus has no time and is outside of time so it's ok to say that He was slain before the foundation of the world.
And, God KNEW everything before it happened since He stands outside and looks in.

God also knew what our good works would be. He MIGHT have chosen some to do a very important good work, like for instance Abraham or Moses, but this is a totally different discussion.

God didn't predestine us to do particular good works. He DID predestine those who believe in Christ to do good works. In general.

I believe in free will.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yes, we are supposed to obey Jesus. But He NEVER said to do those good works to keep our salvation. I'd like to see the verse where He did, if you can find any where He says "your works will guarantee your salvation"..

If you believe you must do works to keep your salvation, you're gonna be surprised someday when God tells you that HIS SON saved you, and that your works did NOT.

You seem to have the mindset of, when we say we don't do works for the purpose of keeping salvation, that that means not to do any works at all. That's not what we're saying. We're saying that works ARE NOT NECESSARY in order to KEEP salvation.. That's NOT the reason why we're commanded to do good works.

The reason why we're commanded to do good works, is to SHOW GOD'S LOVE TO OTHERS. End of story..

You cannot lose salvation if you don't do many good works. Denying that Christ ever lived and died for us, is the ONLY way to lose salvation. I'm stuck in bed at least 85% of the time, so I can't do many good works, but I DO still have my salvation.

Salvation = Jesus Christ

Works do NOT equal Christ

I've answered many times Blue.
Every time I post a word of Jesus where He says that we are to obey Him, I'm answering you.

Are we to obey Jesus or not?
And what are we supposed to obey Him about?

Think of this on your own since you don't accept what I say and I don't blame you for that. You kind of have to come to the undersanding on your own. We all do.

What exactly did Jesus tell us to do?