Not By Works

[blue_ladybug]

Fran, John 14:21 says NOTHING about doing works in order to keep salvation. It only says that if we LOVE Him, and obey His commandments, He will show Himself (manifest) to us.

John 14:24 says NOTHING about doing works in order to keep salvation. That verse only says that who does NOT love the Lord, won't adhere to what He says.

John 14:26 says NOTHING about doing works in order to keep salvation. It only says that He will teach us many things, and bring those things that we have learned, back to our remembrance. There is NO MENTION of works for salvation at all.

John 15:14 says NOTHING about doing works in order to keep salvation. It only says that if we are His friends, we will do what He says. NO MENTION of doing works for salvation.

Soooooo, I don't know what point you're trying to make with these verses, but they say NOTHING about works gaining us our salvation.

JESUS SAVES US. Doing works FOR THE PURPOSE OF KEEPING SALVATION does NOT save us.. We are to do them, yes, but not for THAT specific purpose.

 

[followjesus]

Sin has been overcome so that the Holy Spirit is able to live with us, inside us. So that God can dwell in His creation and have a relationship with us, so that we can know Him. My focus is no longer sin, my focus is on my new relationship with a God that no longer holds my sin against me. I can now live in the Spirit with whom there is no condemnation. With that new life I would hope to see in myself the desire to sin decrease, as God fulfills in me everything that was missing before I was saved. I trust Him to complete the work in me that He started.

what does "living in the spirit look like in a persons Life in regards to thier actions? can someone say be carrying on an adulterous affair and still say " im living in the spirit? or can someone lie daily and scam others and still be living in the spirit? can a person be greedy and refuse to help the poor among them and still be living in the spirit?

 

[blue_ladybug]

In one word.... NOPE.

what does "living in the spirit look like in a persons Life in regards to thier actions? can someone say be carrying on an adulterous affair and still say " im living in the spirit? or can someone lie daily and scam others and still be living in the spirit? can a person be greedy and refuse to help the poor among them and still be living in the spirit?

 

[followjesus]

I am surely not against doing good works, my stance is that they have nothing to do with salvation. Also my love for Jesus has nothing to do with works either. Do you believe that God desires quid pro quo? He does for you, you do for Him. If so we certainly would not have everything we need for life and godliness.

"If so we certainly would not have everything we need for life and godliness."

Thats what the gospel is, the teachings of Jesus He repeatedly says " these words are not mine, they belong to the Father who sent me" the 4 gospels are Gods doctrine directly without being filtered through a sinner, to a sinner. the Words of Jesus are all we need to live a life of uprightness, and we have to believe in Him or well never accept what He taught us. the doctrine of the children of God.

 

[Grace777x70]

Okay, so are you saying that Jesus is simply using our body - and He is living His life through us? We participate because it's our body He lives in? It's my arm He reaches out with? It's my foot He takes a step with. It's my tongue He speaks with?

Actually we are the body of Christ here on the earth. We are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17. He works in us both to do His will and to do of His good pleasure. We are transformed by the Holy Spirit as our minds are renewed to the truths of Christ.

Paul mentions that we are in Christ over 140 x times.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Psalm 37 says to "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." It is His desires being birthed in us.

It's all in the awareness of our union with Christ as one spirit in our inner man of the heart - the new creation. This is walking by the spirit.

We will continue to grow in our understanding of the Lord and the truth that He is in us and we are in Him.

Jesus said "Without Me - you can do nothing." and yet - through Him we can do all things. We have the fruit of His spirit manifesting in us because we are one with Him.

 

[Grace777x70]

Those of us that have malice and slander others in the body of Christ are walking by the flesh the exact same way as living a homosexual lifestyle is. They are in the same lists as works of the flesh and they all bring destruction of some form to our lives while here on this earth.

 

[followjesus]

Why should we follow the example of Paul and not of Christ?

Paul said to follow his example as he follows that of Christ.

We're Always told to go directly to Christ.
So if Paul is following Christ's example, why can't I?? Am I not good enough?

We are absolutely to follow Christ and to become more and more like Him everyday.
Jesus Himself said this...
Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Mathew 5:48.

Without getting into what perfect means, let's just say that Jesus knew we couldn't be perfect, but that we should try to reach that goal as best we can.

Why do we say Jesus is our example, if we are not to become like Him?

There's nothing wrong in saying that we want to be like Him.

"There's nothing wrong in saying that we want to be like Him."

the words of paul

philippians 3:7-15 "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I MAY WIN Christ, 9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12NOT AS THOUGH I HAD ALREADY ATTAINED, either were already perfect: but I FOLLOW AFTER, if that I MAY APPREHEND that for which also I AM APPREHENDED of Christ Jesus.

13Brethren, I COUNT NOT MYSELF TO HAVE APPREHENDED: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and REACHING FORTH unto those things which are before, 14I PRESS TOWARD the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. "


Pauls example was to press foreward always trying to be just like Jesus Christ through the Knowledge of Jesus. Paul wasnt saying to people rest in the finished work, He was saying work hard because Jesus died for you and was raised again. Paul wasnt saying you cant be lost, he was saying that He laboured hard daily in order that He wouldnt be castaway. He was never saying forget Jeus words and listen to mine, He was saying follow the Lord Jesus as i do.

 

[followjesus]

In one word.... NOPE.

agreed, can a person who is a believer and doing those things be forgiven of them and refreshed if they repent of those actions?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yupp.. IF they repent and ask forgiveness..

agreed, can a person who is a believer and doing those things be forgiven of them and refreshed if they repent of those actions?

 

[followjesus]

Blue,
You said:

Yes, we are supposed to obey Jesus. But He NEVER said to do those good works to keep our salvation. I'd like to see the verse where He did, if you can find any where He says "your works will guarantee your salvation"..

Could you find me a verse that says "You don't have to do anything after you're saved".

I'd like to add that we do good works to how our love, and also because we're in the Kingdom of God and we're supposed to behave like we belong there.

Also, I do agree with you about how salvation could be lost.
If we don't do what Jesus commanded, are we denying Him?
Or do we have faith in Him?

John 14:21
John 14:24
John 14:26
John 15:14

What more do you need?

try john 12:48-50......His words teach obedience, obedience to God shouldnt be labeled working for salvation but Life everlasting

 

[followjesus]

Yupp.. IF they repent and ask forgiveness..

amen. Im in agreement completely. sometimes i think we dont get the way another is wording something but have very much agreeable points, just people talk different and say the same thing, " hey" " Hi" "Howdie" "hello" "heya"......all are the same greeting. God bless and keep you

 

[FranC]

try john 12:48-50......His words teach obedience, obedience to God shouldnt be labeled working for salvation but Life everlasting

Yes. Very good. There are so many.
And Jesus said these things Himself.
What higher authority?

I find it causes confusion to say that we should do works because we love Jesus,
but we don't really have to do them.

Scripture is clear: Works do not save, but they do sanctify---and that's the next step.

 

[blue_ladybug]

NO ONE is saying that we don't HAVE TO do them. Of course we do. But NOT TO KEEP SALVATION..


Your works will NOT keep you saved..

Yes. Very good. There are so many.
And Jesus said these things Himself.
What higher authority?

I find it causes confusion to say that we should do works because we love Jesus,
but we don't really have to do them.

Scripture is clear: Works do not save, but they do sanctify---and that's the next step.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Works will NOT save us. Works will NOT KEEP us saved. Works are NOT done for the purpose of KEEPING salvation..

They ARE done, because they are commanded to be done. But doing them for the purpose of keeping salvation is totally futile..

 

[PeterJens]

I'm not saying that we don't have to do anything after being saved.. I am saying that the works we do AFTER being saved, DO NOT KEEP US SAVED. I honestly can't figure out WHY you can't understand this. It's a simple concept that even a child can understand. I've ALWAYS said that we do good works to show our love for God and others.

The above made me think. Children can kill themselves accidently, fall into traps,
do things they should not do, there are consequences behind actions. Because you have
life does not mean it cannot be lost. In fact you cannot lose something you do not have,
so if you have it, it certainly can be lost.

If salvation cannot be lost or the relationship broken what is the point of it in the first place.
A relationship only matters when things are dependent on it, else it is just a thing that is
always there, whether it is helpful or not. A not relationship we have is actually like this,
so why would he most significant one in the universe be any different.

 

[JIMBO43]

Fran, once again you misunderstand me. I've never said that we can just sit back and let God do it all for us. Obviously we have to be proactive and do our part. I believe that we DO need to do works because it is required of us, to show love for God and others.

You say works don't save us. I agree. They don't. So HOW can they KEEP us saved if they DON'T save us to begin with?

The dinner you make for your neighbor won't keep you saved. The lawn you mow for a disabled person won't keep you saved. These things are good works, but they are NOT to be done in order to keep salvation. You're trusting in the works you do, to keep you saved. The ONLY thing that keeps you saved, is JESUS, and your faith and belief in Him.

Nowhere in the bible does God say, "your works have saved you".. He says, "Your FAITH has saved you". So WHY don't you have faith that your salvation is assured, but by JESUS and NOT works?

work are essential to salvation...... thats the diffrence you are looking for ...

They do keep you saved ,,,,yes they do,,,,,,,,,,,,, but they dont give you salvation,,,, God does.


Works...

from the heart.....(flesh). the spirit has overcome the heart and so now the heart is pure..

The two bigest contenders are prayer and repentance...

They have to come from the heart and there is a stern warning if they dont...


Many warnings on this to the believer... like the words woe used by Jesus... when ever Jesus mentions woe its quite often a huge warning.

He woe to you pharissees...( believers ).................... woe to you who dont practice what you preach...

woe to you who are not doers of the word and only hearers of the word...

Woe to you a first fruit who bares no fruit will be cut down..

Woe to the believers who bares no fruit..


in a nut shell woe woe woe woe woe woe woe.................. god blees...


Ps i dont want this for anyone but its reality

 

[JIMBO43]

The above made me think. Children can kill themselves accidently, fall into traps,
do things they should not do, there are consequences behind actions. Because you have
life does not mean it cannot be lost. In fact you cannot lose something you do not have,
so if you have it, it certainly can be lost.

If salvation cannot be lost or the relationship broken what is the point of it in the first place.
A relationship only matters when things are dependent on it, else it is just a thing that is
always there, whether it is helpful or not. A not relationship we have is actually like this,
so why would he most significant one in the universe be any different.

begs the question why God statred a new convenant..

Was it because Us sinners needed a saviour... who could beat sin in the flesh.... God himself could only do that my friend

And was it because he came more importantly to show us the way.. ? (i think so)

Was it also because by showing us the way to not sin we have a chance through how he showed us to to do and say good works.. (de we do enough)... absolutely no way... coz one man can only do so much and its up to others to join in and see the light ...

amen and God bless the king bro..

 

[blue_ladybug]

Peter, human life and eternal life are vastly different. Human life can indeed be lost through accidents, murder or suicide.. ETERNAL life CANNOT be lost UNLESS the one who has it, denies Jesus outright.. On the flip side of that, if one never had eternal life to begin with, then obviously they can't lose what they never had..

If God didn't think that He could bring many to salvation, then there would have been no reason for Jesus to have been born, and die for our sins.. God isn't an Indian giver, He doesn't take back what He has freely given to us.

The above made me think. Children can kill themselves accidently, fall into traps,
do things they should not do, there are consequences behind actions. Because you have
life does not mean it cannot be lost. In fact you cannot lose something you do not have,
so if you have it, it certainly can be lost.

If salvation cannot be lost or the relationship broken what is the point of it in the first place.
A relationship only matters when things are dependent on it, else it is just a thing that is
always there, whether it is helpful or not. A not relationship we have is actually like this,
so why would he most significant one in the universe be any different.

 

[JIMBO43]

to deny is to deny and no where in the bible does it state that outright deny is anymore less than jus a little deny...


What it does say in the bible is sin is sin whether thieving or lieing its still sin...nice try but no cigar sorry... and i guess this will get to denied to coz to deny a little is acceptable ....... yeah right my name is total moron...................

 

[blue_ladybug]

No one is disputing that one sin is any different than another.


I could deny that my eyes are brown. And that would be the truth, because they aren't brown. They're green/ blue..lol


You CAN deny something if it isn't true.. BUT denying Christ will get you in a whole lotta trouble because He IS true..

And YOU are the one who just called yourself a total moron. No one else here has referred to you that way.

to deny is to deny and no where in the bible does it state that outright deny is anymore less than jus a little deny...


What it does say in the bible is sin is sin whether thieving or lieing its still sin...nice try but no cigar sorry... and i guess this will get to denied to coz to deny a little is acceptable ....... yeah right my name is total moron...................