One what "DATE" did YOUR Messiah die?

[Eccl12and13]

Now Passover.....being 7 days long, there would always be a 7th-day Sabbath that would occur during Passover and Tabernacles and that 7th-day Sabbath was a "High Day," because being a 7th-day Sabbath it was already a holy day plus occurring on a feast day made it doubly holy.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

God's word tells us that unleavened bread was to be eaten from the 14th day of the month at evening until and including the 21st day of the month at evening;

Ex.21
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

So......let's do a little math;

(14th day at even) = 1 day + (15th day at even) = 2 days + (16th day at even) = 3 days + (17th day at even) = 4 days + (18th day at even) = 5 days + (19th day at even) = 6 days + (20th day at even) = 7 days!

??? (21st day at even)???

If the 14th day of the 1st month is included in the 7 day feast we come up 1 day short. For the scriptures tells us that unleavened bread is to be eaten; "on the fourteenth day of the month at even...until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."

At what time did this change before Christ time? Who was authorized to change it? Did not Jesus obey ALL of the commandments and laws of the Father? Did Jesus ever say that any of the OT was incorrect and needed an adjustment?


.

 

[Pilgrimer]

Let's again go to the word of God for the truth.....

I notice that you ignored the passage I quoted which is also the Word of God and also true ...

So yes....the people did leave that night.....but that night was yet the 14th day of the month.

No my friend, the Scripture says the Jews left Egypt on the 15th day, not the 14th. Let me quote it again:

"And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians." Numbers 33:3

I would say that it's a pretty good chance that this departure lasted well into the 15th day of the month.

But it started on the day of the Passover, the 14th day of the first month, after the death angel passed through Egypt at midnight.

"A pretty good chance?" First you said they left the night of the 14th, then you say they "started" leaving the night of the 14th but didn't actually leave until the 15th. Which is it?

The people were already packed and ready to leave and even had their shoes on and their staffs in their hands when they sat down to eat the Passover. And in that same night that they ate the Passover the death angel passed over the homes of the Jews at midnight, and that same night the Egyptians rose up and Pharoah called Moses to him and they made the Jews leave "in haste."

We know from historical sources that the Passover lambs were slain on the afternoon of the 14th Nisan between 1:30 and 5:30 p.m., or as Scripture says "between the evenings." The Hebrew has no word for "afternoon," they considered the evening, or the "first evening" to have begun when the sun began it's descent in the western sky, and the "second evening" was sunset, thus "between the evenings" meant between 12:30 and sunset. The Passover Seder was eaten after sunset which was the start of Nisan 15. The Jews ate unleavened bread a total of 7 days.

This is further borne out by the fact that the evening sacrifice was offered at 3:00 p.m. If the evening sacrifice was offered after sunset, that would actually be the first sacrifice of the day. Also by the fact that the evening is used time and again in Scripture to refer to the end of the day, not the beginning, such as Leviticus 23:22 where it speaks of the Day of Atonement and that the Jews were to fast "on the ninth of the month at even, from even to even."

If you try to reckon evening as the first part of the day, are you're doing, rather than the end of the day, you have the Day of Atonement being observed on the 9th of the month rather than the 10th. Clearly your assumption is wrong and it's throwing everything off, including the day the Jews came out of Egypt, and the day our Lord was crucified.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Eccl12and13]

Jesus didn't change anything during that last supper, he and his disciples ate a traditional Passover Seder along with all the rest of Israel, as he was required to do by Law.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

So Jesus and all of Israel made preparation for a Feast on the day BEFORE He died......

Mark 14
[12] And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
[14] And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
[16] And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.


AND the day AFTER He died!

Mark 15
[39] And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
[40] There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
[41] (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
[42] And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,


Because clearly the evening spoken of above is the evening of Jesus death. And what happened at the end of the above evening?

And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,


TWO feast on TWO separate days! One feast days BEFORE Christ death and one feast AFTER His death!

And how many Sabbaths do we find? (2)!



.

 

[Pilgrimer]

You've been thinking about that a long time.

Actually, I just saw it. I've been working. I'll try to catch up this evening.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Eccl12and13]

"A pretty good chance?" First you said they left the night of the 14th, then you say they "started" leaving the night of the 14th but didn't actually leave until the 15th. Which is it?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Are you kidding me? How old are you?

How long do you think it will take to move over 600,000 people on foot? Do you think it can be accomplished within 24 hours?

The bible tells us the exodus started on the 14th and continued until the 15th?

Are you really that blind?


.

 

[Nancyer]

My son asked me recently what we actually do for Easter, other then go to Sunrise Service. I didn't have an answer since that is what we have done the past 4 years since I gave my heart to Jesus. We have done the Easter egg thing both at home and at our church (for the little kids), and observed a seder meal earlier in the week, but on Easter Sunday I would love to have something we could actually do to commemorate the day and show praise and glory to God. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pilgrimer]

So Jesus and all of Israel made preparation for a Feast on the day BEFORE He died......

Yes, on Thursday afternoon Jesus sent his disciples into the city to prepare the feast, which by law included the Passover lamb, and also unleavened bread. That evening (the same day by Roman reckoning which is why the Gospels say the lambs were slain on the 1st day of unleavened bread ... but the beginning of the 15th day by Jewish reckoning), they all sat down and ate the Passover. Later that night he was arrested.

AND the day AFTER He died!

Yes, the day after, which was Friday, the "preparation" for the 7th-day Sabbath, which meant that Friday the Jews had to make all the preparations not only for the feast eaten that Friday night (the Passover Chagigah which was mandatory), which would begin the 2nd day of unleavened bread, but they also had to prepare enough for the following day which was the weekly Sabbath and a feast day, the 3rd day of the feast that year.

TWO feast on TWO separate days! One feast days BEFORE Christ death and one feast AFTER His death!

That's correct. The Passover before his death, and the 2nd feast day after his death. And there were 5 more feast days after that.

And how many Sabbaths do we find? (2)!

True, but one is the festival sabbath which was a minor sabbath that allowed certain work to be done (those things necessary for the feast). The other is the weekly Sabbath for which they had to prepare enough for two feast days.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer



.


[/QUOTE]

 

[Pilgrimer]

Are you kidding me? How old are you? How long do you think it will take to move over 600,000 people on foot? Do you think it can be accomplished within 24 hours?

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt ... and Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people ... And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men. And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders ..." Exodus 12:29-34

Apparently, with the people already packed up and ready to go, and the Egyptians "urgent" to see them gone, it didn't even take 24 hours. In fact, the Scripture says not only that they left in one day, it says they left that same night:

"And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt. It is a night to be much observed unto the Lord for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the Lord to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations." Exodus 12:41-42

The lambs were slain on the afternoon of the 14th Nisan, "between the evenings," and they were eaten at the Passover Seder that night, which was the beginning of the 15th Nisan, the day on which the Lord delivered them from Egypt.

The bible tells us the exodus started on the 14th and continued until the 15th?

No, the Bible doesn't say that, it says clearly that they left in the night afer eating the Passover. You're the one saying it took 2 days.

Are you really that blind?

Actually, my vision is very good considering my age, although I must admit I do need glasses to read very small print. So I appreciate your large font ~

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Eccl12and13]

So your second problem is that by trying to separate passover from unleavened bread you have an 8 day feast, which is clearly not correct.

So again, the Passover was the first of the 7 nights of eating unleavened bread, not a separate feast.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

God's word tells us that unleavened bread was to be eaten from the 14th day of the month at evening until and including the 21st day of the month at evening;

Ex.21
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

So......let's do a little math;

(14th day at even) = 1 day + (15th day at even) = 2 days + (16th day at even) = 3 days + (17th day at even) = 4 days + (18th day at even) = 5 days +(19th day at even) = 6 days + (20th day at even) = 7 days!

??? (21st day at even)???

If the 14th day of the 1st month is included in the 7 day feast we come up 1 day short. For the scriptures tells us that unleavened bread is to be eaten; "on the fourteenth day of the month at even...until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."

At what time did this change before Christ time? Who was authorized to change it? Did not Jesus obey ALL of the commandments and laws of the Father? Did Jesus ever say that any of the OT was incorrect and needed an adjustment?


.

 

[Pilgrimer]

God's word tells us that unleavened bread was to be eaten from the 14th day of the month at evening until and including the 21st day of the month at evening;

Ex.21
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

So......let's do a little math;

(14th day at even) = 1 day + (15th day at even) = 2 days + (16th day at even) = 3 days + (17th day at even) = 4 days + (18th day at even) = 5 days +(19th day at even) = 6 days + (20th day at even) = 7 days!

??? (21st day at even)???

If the 14th day of the 1st month is included in the 7 day feast we come up 1 day short. For the scriptures tells us that unleavened bread is to be eaten; "on the fourteenth day of the month at even...until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."

At what time did this change before Christ time? Who was authorized to change it? Did not Jesus obey ALL of the commandments and laws of the Father? Did Jesus ever say that any of the OT was incorrect and needed an adjustment?.

Why do you stop? Why not read just a few words more ...

"In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even ...

... Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses."

How many days no leaven? Seven, not eight.

And this wasn't a new innovation, it was the practice even right up to the time of Ezekiel:

"In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering. And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the Lord, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days." Ezekiel 45:21-23

The reason the Scripture used Passover and Unleavened Bread interchangably is because the Passover was "sacrificed" on the 14th but the feast at which the Passover was eaten was the first feast day of unleavened bread.

And no, Jesus never said the manner of observance was incorrect, you're saying that, but you're not correct. The Passover was sacrificed on the afternoon of the 14th day but the Passover Seder was eaten later that day after sunset which by the Jewish calendar was the 15th Nisan. You are trying to reckon time as the evening being at the beginning of the day but the Scriptures consistently speak of the evening as being the end of the day. Shall I provide a list of verses? The Strongs number is 6153 and there are literally dozens of verses.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

The first sabbath was created by God and it was commanded by Him that man keep this holy day on the 7th day of a seven day week, or the last day of the week. It was kept this way until Satan convinced man to change it to the first day of the week.

You err, knowing neither the Christian doctrine or the New Testament Scriptures. Under the New covenant, Jesus is the Sabbath, it is in him that we find rest from our works, a rest to our souls of which the 7th-day Sabbath of the Old Covenant was a dim, shadowy reflection.

Sunday is not a sabbath. Sunday was instituted by the Apostles and the New Testament church who gathered together on the first day of the week (the 8th day of the Jewish calendar and the beginning of the new creation) for worship, fellowship, teaching, and for the gathering up of alms.

Man says the day that is to be celebrated is that of Jesus resurrection. But God's word tell us it is His DEATH we are to remember for an everlasting memorial.

Again you err understanding neither Christian doctrine or the New Testament Scriptures.

Jesus' death is commemorated by "the Lord's Supper," Communion, the Eucharist. This is the Christian Passover.

Easter is the celebration of Jesus' resurrection.

Christians celebrate BOTH Jesus' death, remembered in the Lord's Supper, AND his resurrection, celebrated by Easter observance.

Year after year man tells us that Christ died on a Friday! But it is IMPOSSIBLE for the day of Christ death to fall each and every year on a Friday!!

And yet again you err, understanding neither Christian doctrine or the New Testament Scriptures.

Jesus died on a Friday and rose from the dead on Sunday according to the Scripture.

Christians observe the death and resurrection of Jesus on the weekdays on which they occurred, not the dates, dates which cannot be absolutely identified as the Jews did not have a fixed calendar but the new moon of the first month, and consequently Passover, was determined by observation and proclaimed by the Sanhedrin. The beginning of the ecclesiastical year could be postponed by a day, if the new moon was not visible, or even as much as a month, if the barley crop was not sufficiently grown and an extra month was inserted, which was also determined at the discretion of the Sanhedrin. So while we know Jesus' crucifixion occurred on the 15th Nisan, there is no way to ascertain what "date" the Jewish 15th Nisan occurred that year.

Is remembering the death of Christ each year on a Friday and celebrating His resurrection each year on a Sunday worshiping God in TRUTH!

Yes, just as under the Old Covenant the Jews rested every Saturday, regardless of the "date" on which God rested from His works. So apparently to God the day of the week can be every bit as important as the day of the month.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Messenger_T]

There were three Sabbaths the week Jesus was crucified. Of any indication from the date of His Birth (Jeish month of Tishri-which is mid September to Mid October) Jesus was 33 years old. So sometime AFTER mid October in which there were three Sabbaths. Thisshould get you closer to the actual month and week of His crucifixion.

 

[Pilgrimer]

eVer wonder why the observance of 'easter' was changed from the Jewish Passover week to our current calendar system? The Church. There was a prevalent mood of anti semitism during Constatine's reign thanks to the allegorizing by many Church Fathers, so they made sure easter did not coincide with the Jewish Passover. Good going Father's, sheesh.

That's not true. Up until the council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Easter was being observed on the Sunday following the Jewish Passover observance. However, the Jewish calendar was still determined by the Sanhedrin's visual observations made in Jerusalem and therefore there was no way to know from one year to the next when Easter would occur. The Western churches decided, and I believe rightly so, to adopt the practice of the Coptic Church which, rather than being dependent upon the variableness of the Jewish method of reckoning, instead used what is called the Metonic Cycle, that is a calendar that is based on a 19-year lunar cycle because every 19 years the lunar and the solar calendars come into alignment. That way all the churches, east and west, would know in advance when the next Easter would occur so that they could all celebrate at the same time.

And I say I believe this was the right decision made by the Christians because in subsequent years Hillel II began his work on a fixed Jewish calendar also using the Metonic cycle to fix the intercalations at regular intervals rather than randomly based on observations by the Sanhedrin so that Jews worldwide could celebrate Passover at the same time. So the Jewish Calendar he developed, which is still in use today, like the Christian calendar, is likewise based on the Metonic cycle.

That was the only “change” that was made to the Easter observation. It was never disassociated from Passover but to this day Easter is always the first Sunday that occurs after the "Paschal moon," the Paschal moon being the first full moon after the spring equinox, which was the day historically when Jesus was crucified. In fact, Passover this year will be Tuesday, March 26 and Easter will be the following Sunday, March 31.

Good work Church Fathers!

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Geometar]

I have to say next.At East,Easter formula for calculating the date is different.Some year it happens to be at same date as at West but this year is at 5th May.
I will just say that Holy Fire never has appeared at West Easter,nor to prayers of Pope of Rome or any other,even there were couple trys,but to an Orthodox Patriarch at Orthodox date of Great Saturday.
Glory to the God on highnes!

 

[Eccl12and13]

[/SIZE]The Passover was sacrificed on the afternoon of the 14th day but the Passover Seder was eaten later that day after sunset which by the Jewish calendar was the 15th Nisan. You are trying to reckon time as the evening being at the beginning of the day but the Scriptures consistently speak of the evening as being the end of the day. Shall I provide a list of verses? The Strongs number is 6153 and there are literally dozens of verses.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Well......if you can provide a list of a dozen verses that says the evening is the end of the day I can match that with a dozen of verses that says the evening is the beginning of the day, for they are one in the same.

Readers....let's go to the beginning to find what GOD tells us about His days;

Gen.1
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So what do we have above? We have God telling us that the very first day began in the 'evening'. And when does this first day end and the second begin? Let's read;

[8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

The first day ended at evening and the second day began at evening.


Pilgrimer, if you have not realized this very basic event of the moment when one day ends and the other begins, it is no wonder you have gotten the TWO Feast days of the Passover and the first day of Unleavened bread confused. But I find it hard that you could have made such a mistake when you have experienced this all of your life.

Consider this....what happens EVERY day at midnight? Let's read what people way smarter than me have to say about it;


Wikipedia - "Midnight marks the beginning and ending of each day in civil time throughout the world. It is the dividing point between one day and another. With 12-hour time notation, authorities recommend avoiding confusion between noon and midnight by using "midnight", "12 midnight", or "12:00 midnight."


Wiki Answers - "Wherever you are, there is an official beginning and end to any given day. It is called midnight. The first place that a given day occurs is just to the west of the International Date Line. The date line goes through the middle of its time zone. At midnight at that time zone, a new day first appears in the half time zone to the west, and the last place to start the day that is already progressing every place else is the half time zone to the east."


Pilgrimer.....every night at midnight one day ends and another begins. It is a seamless instant of time when this happens. One day does not end with another not beginning until several minutes, or even seconds later. It all happens at an instant, at midnight. This you have experienced all of your life. But was it so during biblical times? Did the days end and begin at midnight during the time of the bible? Of course not....God already gave us the start and end times of a day above in Gen.1 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

So when does the Sabbath day begin? When did the sixth day of the week end and the Sabbath day begin during the time of Christ? Let's go to the bible for the answer.

John 19
[31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Now why was there such a hurry to remove Christ body? Because God's sabbath day starts at evening, when the sun sets. Let's confirm. Let's first read what God considers "at even" to be.


Deut.16
[6] But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

So God considers "even" to be at the going down of the sun. The sun does NOT set at 3pm, the time that you claim the regular "afternoon" lambs were to be sacrificed;

Post #73. In fact, the regular evening sacrifice that was normally slain at 2:30 and offered at 3:00...
​

Now that we know that the term "at even" refers to the going down of the sun, let's confirm when God said the daily sacrifices were to occur;

Exod.29
[39] The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
[41] And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
[42] This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.

Num.28
[3] And thou shalt say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering.
[4] The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even;
[6] It is a continual burnt offering, which was ordained in mount Sinai for a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD.

Clearly God established that one lamb was to be offered in the morning while the other was to be offered in the "even"! And we know that God consider's the "even" to be the "going down of the sun". Above we just read that a lamb was to be continually offered in the morning and the "even". So when did GOD say the daily sacrifices were to be offered? At the raising and going down of the sun! NOT at 1, 2 or 3pm!

So again...when does God's Sabbath day begin? Or better yet....when did the Jews of Jesus day start their Sabbath day? At "even"; the going down of the sun.

This is why there was such a hurry to remove Christ's body from the cross. So that it would not be there at the beginning of the Sabbath, which happened at the going down of the sun. Let's confirm this further. Let's confirm just when God's Sabbath day starts and ends;

Lev.23
[32] It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

So God's sabbath starts at even and it ends at even. And when does His day begins and ends? When does one (24hr) period begin and end? At "even"....the going down of the sun. Sun set during Christ time is the equivalent to our midnight. Just as one day ends and begins at midnight for us now, so did one day end and begin at even/sun set during the days of Christ. And how do we know this practice had not changed during the time of Christ? Let's read again...

John 19
[31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Because the evening was approaching and the body needed to be off of the cross BEFORE the setting of the sun, or the beginning of the Sabbath.


You also claimed the following;

The Passover was sacrificed on the afternoon of the 14th day but the Passover Seder was eaten later that day after sunset which by the Jewish calendar was the 15th Nisan.

But again...now that we know that a new day starts at "even", or the going down of the sun, your claim is not supported by scriptures. Let's read when God tells us the passover lamb was to be killed AND eaten;

Exod.12
[5] Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[7] And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

Lev.23
[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.

Num.9
[3] In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.
[5] And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.

Josh.5
[10] And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.


God had already established that at "even" means the going down of the sun. He also directed that the Passover lamb was to be killed at the going down of the sun. He also said that the meal was to be eaten, "...in that night..." BEFORE the morning.

And God also directed them to;

Exod.12
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
If the passover lamb was to be killed at "even", that means it was to be killed at the going down of the sun, which was the BEGINNING of the next day and the ending of the previous day. Which means at the going down of the sun, or "even" was the START of the 14th day of the month, not the ending of the 14th day of the month.

And if the beginning of the 14th day started when the sun went down that means there was to be the eating of unleavened bread for a total of (8) days, just as God's word tells us below;

Exod.12
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

On the 14th day of the month, at even/sunset unleavened bread was to be eaten and for an additional (7) days unleavened bread was to be eaten.

[19] Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Just because above it says that unleavened bread is to be eaten for (7) days does NOT mean that unleavened bread is NOT to be eaten for (8) days!

How else can you eat unleavened bread from the 14th day of the month at evening until AND including the 21st day of the month if you do not eat it for a total of (8) days?



(14th day at even) = 1 Day + (15th day at even) thru (21st day at even) = 7 Days

1 Day + 7 Days = (8) days!

Or this....

(14th day at even) = 1 day + (15th day at even) = 2 days + (16th day at even) = 3 days + (17th day at even) = 4 days + (18th day at even) = 5 days +(19th day at even) = 6 days + (20th day at even) = 7 days!

God's word tells us that unleavened bread was to be eaten from the 14th day at even until the 21st day.....AT "EVEN"

What happens to the "...one and twentieth day of the month at even...", if unleavened bread is only eaten for (7) days? What happened to the(21st day at even)???


God's days begins and ends at even, at the going down of the sun, at sunset!


Now I know that those that call themselves "Jews" keep a different Passover from the one that is directed to be done in the bible.....the one that is commanded to be kept for (8) days and not (7), but who gave them the authority to CHANGE what God had established?


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[Eccl12and13]

So while we know Jesus' crucifixion occurred on the 15th Nisan, there is no way to ascertain what "date" the Jewish 15th Nisan occurred that year.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

If Jesus is our Passover Lamb, which the scriptures tells us;

1 Cor.5
[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Then ALL of the things that applied to the Passover Lamb MUST apply to Jesus and His death, including the date.

Let's compare the first Passover to the Passover that Christ became for us;

Exod.12
[1] And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
[2] This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
[3] Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
[5] Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

God’s word tell us that on the first month of HIS year, not what man calls the first of the year, and on the 14th day of the first month of His year, a male lamb of the first year was to be taken from the sheep or the goats. And this lamb was to be without blemish. Let’s continue…


[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[7] And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

And this male lamb without a blemish was to be killed by the WHOLE assembly of Israel in the EVENING on the 14th day of the first month of the year. And the meal had to be eaten at night, after the sun had gone down. And the blood of the lamb was to be put on the door post.

[12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
[13] And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.


Take note who it was that was destroyed and who was not. EVERYONE that was in a house that was covered with the blood of the lamb was passed over. It did not matter if they believed in the God of Israel or not….ANYBODY that was in a house covered with the blood of the lamb was spared. Let's find if there were any other instructions given by God concerning the Passover Lamb;

[46] In one house it shall be eaten;thou shall not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.

Now we find that not one bone of the Passover Lamb could be broken.



Let’s now go to the NT to find if Jesus did, in fact, meet ALL of the requirements to become our Passover.


Matt.1
[18] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
[24] Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
[25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.


So we know that Jesus was the first male son born to Mary and Joseph…just as the Passover lamb had to be; “…a male of the first year…”!


2 Cor.5
[19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


1 Pet.2
[21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
[22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


1 John 3
[5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


And we now know that Christ was perfect…with no sin….just as the Passover lamb had to be; “…Your lamb shall be without blemish…”

Matt.26
[17] Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
[19] And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
[20] Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
[21] And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.


So we find, just as with the first Passover, Jesus also partook and ate the Passover at evening; “…And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.”

John 19
[32] Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
[33] But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Above we find that not one bone was broke on Jesus.....again as the Passover Lamb; "...neither shall ye break a bone thereof..."

Thus far we have found that Jesus met ALL of the requirements that the Lord put forth for the Passover. Now let’s read of the last requirement for the Passover, that being that the Passover lamb MUST die on the Passover day, the 14th day of the month at evening, at the hands of the WHOLE assembly of Israel. Let's read to see if Jesus met this requirement.

Matt.26
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
[19] And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
[20] Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
[21] And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.


Again we find, just as the first Passover, Jesus also partook and ate the Passover at evening; “…And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.”

Matt.26
[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
[27] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
[30] And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
[36] Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.


Above we find that this Passover was different than ALL of the previous Passovers. For at this Passover there was no mention of male lamb of the first year without a blemish being eaten. This Passover, done on the 14th day of the first month of God’s year, at night, consisted of bread and wine. And why was there no need for a male lamb of the first year without blemish? Because Jesus Christ was to be that male lamb of the first year with not blemish. And after they ate and sung hymns they went out to the mount of Olives, to the garden of Gethsemane. Let's continue....

[45] Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
[46] Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.
[47] And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.


So while it was yet on the 14th day of the first month, after the Passover meal and while it was dark, Jesus was betrayed. Please understand something here…God’s days ends and begins when the sun goes down. So the 14th day of the first month started at evening when they ate the Passover meal. Which means that the 14th day of the first month would not be over until the evening of the next day. Knowing this let’s read more…

[55] In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
[57] And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
[59] Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
[60] But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
[61] And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
[65] Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
[66] What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.


So all during the night of the Passover, Jesus was accused, questioned and beaten. Let’s move on to the next chapter to find what happened STILL on the day of the Passover, the 14th day of the month…

Matt. 27
[1] When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
[2] And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
[24] When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
[25] Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.


So we find that, still on the Passover day, Jesus was found guilty by ALL the people and that His blood would not only be on their hands, but their children’s as well. Now let’s find when Jesus died.

[35] And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
[36] And sitting down they watched him there;
[45] Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
[46] And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[57] When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
[58] He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
[59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
[60] And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.


So Jesus was crucified on the Passover day; the 14th day of God's first month. From about 12 noon until 3pm was it yet dark in the land. And sometime after 3pm but before the sun set Jesus was dead and buried. And again ALL of this happened on the 14th day on the first month of God’s year, just as God said the Passover over MUST happen; "...And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening."

And now let's read WHO Jesus died for.

Isa.53
[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.


And so we have Jesus dying for the sins of the world, just as the Passover Lamb died for ALL that were within a household covered with the blood of the sacrificed lamb; “…and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you…”


So as we have just learned Jesus met ALL of the requirements to become our Passover;

• Jesus was the first male son! “…a male of the first year…”.
• Jesus was without sin! “…Your lamb shall be without blemish…”.
• Jesus had the Passover meal at night! “…And they shall eat the flesh in that night…”
  
• Jesus bones were not broken! "...neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
• Jesus was killed by the whole congregation of Israel on the Passover at evening! “… the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.”
• Jesus shed blood was for everyone! “…and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you…”

The date that the true Messiah died on was the 14th day of the first of God’s months. Jesus HAD to die on the 14th day of the month if He was to be our Passover Lamb. Jesus satisfied ALL of God's requirements for the Passover, including the date and time of His death.


The date on which Jesus died does NOT change from year to year.

It was and will always be observed on the 14th day of the first of God's months.


"And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever."


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

But I don't believe that's what he actually taught, or what the disciples understood.

Notice that Jesus said he would suffer many things of the Jewish authorities and be killed and be raised the third day. He didn't say he would be buried and be raised the third day. He included the things he would suffer at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and how he would be killed, and would be raised the third day.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Readers....the first thing that should make one just a little skeptical is the following statement;

"But I don't believe that's what he actually taught,..."


We do not to rely on what anyone "BELIEVES". We have God's word for the facts.


Next we have;

"He didn't say he would be buried and be raised the third day."


Well....let's go to the source to find just what Jesus said and meant;


Matt.12
[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

No disputing what was meant and said above. Jesus tells us the same way that Jonas was IN the whales belly, He would be IN the heart of the earth. But let's read more to confirm;

John 2
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Notice Jesus did not; "...included the things he would suffer at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and how he would be killed..."

The writer understood that Jesus was talking about the destruction of His body. And that after, "...the temple of His body..." was destroyed it would raise up in (3) days.


So we do not have to go with, "But I don't believe that's what he actually taught,..."!

And we don't have to guess if He was talking about including, "...the things he would suffer at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and how he would be killed...", or if He did or, "..."didn't say he would be buried and be raised the third day."!


For we have God's words to tell us!

Jesus DID say that He would be in the earth for (3) days and (3) nights!

And the disciples DID understand that He was speaking about the temple of His body!


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[Pilgrimer]

Now that we know that the term "at even" refers to the going down of the sun ...

Not so fast my friend. There is a great deal more to be said about this. You can't just base your understanding of what "evening" means on one verse. You have the take the whole Word of God and pray and struggle to reconcile things. God made it difficult like that for a reason and you can always count on cults and false teachers being able to point to a single verse here and a single verse there on which they build up an entire doctrine. But I learned long ago to make a list of every instance of a word on any particular subject and look at everything God had to say about it before thinking I understand anything.

You are assuming that the evening and the going down of the sun refers only to sunset. But to the Jews it referred to the point at which the sun began to decline in the sky, to "go down." And that began at 12:00 noon. and ended when the sun actually set. Then the period between sunset and night was called in Hebrew a word we translate as "twilight."

But let me say too, that no one is arguing when the Jewish calendar day begins and ends. The issue is what does the Hebrew word “evening” refer to, and how did the Jews historically understand it? Did evening refer to the afternoon and the closing of the day, or after sunset and the beginning of a new day? Because that determines the date of Jesus’ death, regardless of whether or not you agree with them. And I’m sure Jesus would have corrected them if the Jews had been observing Passover on the wrong date. And as a side note, remember that Paul said that "unto them were committed the oracles of God." Jesus never had any complaint about the mode or timing of their observances, and if they had been doing anything contrary to the Law, I'm sure he would not have taken part.

And please note that the creation account in Genesis says that God divided the light from the darkness and the light he called day and the darkness he called night. Then the Bible goes on to say that the evening and the morning were the first, second, third, etc. “day,” which based on the definition just given would mean the 12 hour period from sunrise to sunset. That’s certainly the way it is used in the Scripture when evening and morning or, as it is used for the entirely of the rest of the Bible, "the morning and evening" are used. Otherwise it is "night and day." But look at these verses.

Notice this Levitical law respecting a man that becomes defiled:

“If there be among you any man, that is not clean by reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall he go abroad out of the camp, he shall not come within the camp: But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp.” Deuteronomy 23:10-11

Notice that the evening precedes the sunset, so if a man contracted ritual defilement during the night, he was unclean until the following day. But before the sun went down, at the end of the day in which he was defiled, he had to cleanse himself so that when the sun set and the next day officially began he would be clean.

And look at this Scripture:

“And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening. And it came to pass at the time of the going down of the sun, [that] Joshua commanded, and they took them down off the trees..” Joshua 10:26-27

Notice that here again the evening “precedes” the “going down of the sun,” and the sunset is when the new day began.

And another:

“And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel’s father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end …”

In this verse “the day draweth toward evening,” and “the day growth to an end,” makes it clear that the evening was used Biblically for the end of the day, not the beginning.

Another verse that makes it clear that the evening is referring to the afternoon, or the last part of the day, is this one:

“Prepare ye war against her; arise, and let us go up at noon. Woe unto us! For the day goeth away, for the shadows of the evening are stretched out.” Jeremiah 6:4

Again, it is clear that the evening speaks of the end of the day, when the day “goeth away,” and further, the fact that it says “the shadows of the evening are stretched out” could not be referring to after sunset when there would be no shadows, but the afternoon when shadows become long (stretched out) with the lowering sun.

So I think these verses make it very clear that the word “ereb” which means “evening” is not referring to either sunset or the twilight, there are Hebrew words which mean “sunset” and “twilight.” Do a word study and look them all up. But the Hebrew word for evening refers to the end of the daylight period, or what we call afternoon.

The morning hours began at 6:00 a.m. and ended at 12:00 noon. The morning sacrifice was offered “between the mornings,” or at 9:00 a.m., which is when Jesus was crucified. The evening sacrifice was offered “between the evenings,” (between the time the sun began to decline at 12:00 noon and the time it disappeared below the horizon at 6:00 p.m.) or at 3:00 p.m., which is when Jesus died.

Now granted, these are only a few verses, but I think they are clear that the evening refers to the period before sunset, not after. But do a word study of this yourself and see what you come up with, and let me know your findings.

But one other thing I’d like to mention. The day God “passed over” was made a memorial, a Sabbath. What day was a Sabbath? Nisan 14 or 15?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

P.S. I’ll address your other posts at the first opportunity.

 

[Pilgrimer]

If Jesus is our Passover Lamb, which the scriptures tells us;

I get the distinct impression that these posts are not written to me or written to address the specific issues we are discussing. All due respect, but I do not need lessons on what the Passover foreshadowed about Jesus' death.

That said, let me point out something to you. You are insisting that Jesus had to die on Nisan 14 in order to fulfill what Passover foreshadowed. But that's not true. Think about it. Jesus didn't die on the 10th day of Tishri, and yet his death fulfilled every jot and tittle that the atonement sacrifice foreshadowed ... the blood being sprinkled on the mercy seat in the presence of God to atone for sin. If Jesus' death at Calvary did not fulfill that fall feast, then there is no atonement and we are still dead in our sins.

Clearly, you are mistaken in insisting that Jesus had to die on a certain date or at a certain time in order to fulfill the Passover, but Eccl, Jesus' death fulfilled EVERY sacrifice and offering of the Law that were offered every feast day and day after day the whole year through! His one death fulfilled it all, and he did not have to die on 365 separate days to accomplish it!

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

Readers....the first thing that should make one just a little skeptical is the following statement;


"But I don't believe that's what he actually taught,..."


We do not to rely on what anyone "BELIEVES". We have God's word for the facts.

No Eccl, we have what you believe God's word says, and you base your whole understanding of the events that would occur during the three days and nights that would precede Jesus' resurrection on your interpretation of one lone text, which Jesus said was for that blind and stiffnecked generation, and you completely ignore the numerous verses when Jesus spoke to his disciples and explained to them what events would occur during those three days and nights.

And I often use the phrase "I don't believe" or "I believe" or "the way I understand" because I know I do not yet have perfect understanding in all of the things of God, and will not have this side of glory. So I do make an effort to be at least a little humble and not assume I am infallible.



Matt.12

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

No disputing what was meant

I think there is ample grounds to dispute what you believe Jesus meant.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Notice Jesus did not; "...included the things he would suffer at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and how he would be killed..."

The writer understood that Jesus was talking about the destruction of His body. And that after, "...the temple of His body..." was destroyed it would raise up in (3) days.

So you think the Sanhedrin just snapped their fingers and Jesus instantly dropped down dead? How exactly was Jesus' body "destroyed." Seems to me that at the very least the crucifixion, which alone lasted 6 hours, would be included in that "destruction of his body."

So we do not have to go with, "But I don't believe that's what he actually taught,..."!

No, you certainly don't, which is why I gave you several scriptures where Jesus spoke privately to his own and told them what events would occur during the 3 days and nights preceding his resurrection, and another verse which clearly shows how the disciples understood it, but I see you have chosen to ignore them?

For we have God's word to tell us!

Some people pick and choose verses of scripture and ignore others to support their beliefs. I don't. And I hope if anyone else is reading this thread they will dive a little deeper if they want pearls.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer