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W
The natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God ....even so the things of God knoweth no man but, the Spirit of God. The only way we can hear Gods call toward us is that God gives us a measure of understanding by Grace. after this the balls in our court to respond however WE choose. I feel predestination lurking in the shadows!
C
As it pertains to God's Sovereignty of a system which He not only set in place and who is the ultimate Authority (King) of that system, those who He places in position must be subordinate to His demands.
Now, never is God's Sovereignty in question when it comes to fulfilling His will (desires), His words will not come back empty. If God so desires, all which were created could just vanish.
In trying to see how God's Sovereignty (His right to do as He deems) fits into freewill, I am led to imagine how that if all what we do are the acts of God which somehow are predestined for us to do, would this logic flow of saying that God performs our acts conclude that we are not accountable for the things we do? Would it not also nullify about 99.99 percept of Scripture, just to simply say that we have no freewill. Although the very beginning of Scripture says that Adam and Even willfully disobeyed and faced the consequences of disobedience. And what about the very end of Scripture which says that if anyone takes or adds to the book of Revelation then they will face the consequences. And to continue with this flow, if God acts for us, then was it God who disobeyed God in the Garden? Did God warn God not to add or to take away from the book of Revelation?
I can imagine God as the Head Administrator over a system He ordained, and those under Him are puppets, in the same aspect of a president's cabinet. I can also see how God, at will, can do whatever whenever He desires. But to say that we have no freewill in our obedience to God, then shall we continue to hold dear that remaining .01 percept of Scripture which merely says, 'In the beginning. The End'?
The relationship between God and man is so much more than God saying, 'Do this. Do that.'
Now, never is God's Sovereignty in question when it comes to fulfilling His will (desires), His words will not come back empty. If God so desires, all which were created could just vanish.
In trying to see how God's Sovereignty (His right to do as He deems) fits into freewill, I am led to imagine how that if all what we do are the acts of God which somehow are predestined for us to do, would this logic flow of saying that God performs our acts conclude that we are not accountable for the things we do? Would it not also nullify about 99.99 percept of Scripture, just to simply say that we have no freewill. Although the very beginning of Scripture says that Adam and Even willfully disobeyed and faced the consequences of disobedience. And what about the very end of Scripture which says that if anyone takes or adds to the book of Revelation then they will face the consequences. And to continue with this flow, if God acts for us, then was it God who disobeyed God in the Garden? Did God warn God not to add or to take away from the book of Revelation?
I can imagine God as the Head Administrator over a system He ordained, and those under Him are puppets, in the same aspect of a president's cabinet. I can also see how God, at will, can do whatever whenever He desires. But to say that we have no freewill in our obedience to God, then shall we continue to hold dear that remaining .01 percept of Scripture which merely says, 'In the beginning. The End'?
The relationship between God and man is so much more than God saying, 'Do this. Do that.'
C
In reply to
I agree that the Law is written upon every man's heart (this measure of understanding) and that the Spirit convicts the child of the rebellion by those things and that it is that contrited heart laidened with a guilty conscience which cannot bear the Spirit's conviction and by which guilt, we repent.
My Brother, i do not see how your reply answers my question on when we repent: before or after reeiving Christ as our Lord?
Originally Posted by cfultz3
I still have to ask,
Are we to repent before we are converted or can we continue in our sin as long as we give an effort in stopping it?
I still have to ask,
Are we to repent before we are converted or can we continue in our sin as long as we give an effort in stopping it?
My Brother, i do not see how your reply answers my question on when we repent: before or after reeiving Christ as our Lord?
G
Was Cain contrite?
What happened to Cain after he told God, 'My punishment is too much to bear.'
Gen. 4
13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
Did God...
A) Smite him
B) Mark him.
C) Punish him.
D) Use him.
What was Cain's response?
Did God have compassion on that murderer, Cain ?
How did God esteem Cain for accepting His punishment?
Read deeper into Gen. 4 ?
What about mercy?
You think God liked Cain accepting his punishment, but still sticking up for himself
How today do things differ to yesterday's 'beginning,' to tomorrow's future?
Because Christ sent His Son to shed His blood for us, did that event change things? Are we still to be broken/have contriteness well up in our spirit, after we are to 'Repent! The kingdom of heaven is at hand?'
Who does say God say He esteems and is well pleased with?
Simple, isn't it? One who has a contrite heart and who trembles at His Word.
I love this word, for our understanding and acceptance, and, perhaps, most important of the three, embracement, lies within.
con·trite (k n-tr t , k n tr t ). adj. 1. Feeling regret and sorrow for one's sins or offenses; penitent. 2. Arising from or expressing contrition: contrite words.
Godly sorrow is an issuance of our spirit accepting His life for us and then following after His wanton perfection for us as best we humanly can, as we battle our weaknesses with His grace sufficient in us to battle us past the torment and torturous existence that our spirits so pressedly want us to unfleshly hold.
The Lord leads, this quite simply composites my belief in my Father in Heaven's way for me
What happened to Cain after he told God, 'My punishment is too much to bear.'
Gen. 4
13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
Did God...
A) Smite him
B) Mark him.
C) Punish him.
D) Use him.
What was Cain's response?
Did God have compassion on that murderer, Cain ?
How did God esteem Cain for accepting His punishment?
Read deeper into Gen. 4 ?
What about mercy?
You think God liked Cain accepting his punishment, but still sticking up for himself
How today do things differ to yesterday's 'beginning,' to tomorrow's future?
Because Christ sent His Son to shed His blood for us, did that event change things? Are we still to be broken/have contriteness well up in our spirit, after we are to 'Repent! The kingdom of heaven is at hand?'
Who does say God say He esteems and is well pleased with?
Simple, isn't it? One who has a contrite heart and who trembles at His Word.
I love this word, for our understanding and acceptance, and, perhaps, most important of the three, embracement, lies within.
con·trite (k n-tr t , k n tr t ). adj. 1. Feeling regret and sorrow for one's sins or offenses; penitent. 2. Arising from or expressing contrition: contrite words.
Godly sorrow is an issuance of our spirit accepting His life for us and then following after His wanton perfection for us as best we humanly can, as we battle our weaknesses with His grace sufficient in us to battle us past the torment and torturous existence that our spirits so pressedly want us to unfleshly hold.
The Lord leads, this quite simply composites my belief in my Father in Heaven's way for me
Last edited by a moderator:
W
I'm sorry I ignored your question ,I get to wrapped up in my own thoughts. Receiving Christ our Lord ? I guess this is salvation. I think John said bring forth fruits meet or worthy of repentance. I'm just thinking so bear with me. The matter of salvation to me relates being joined unto Christ ,first in his death then in his Resurrection. to be dead with Christ and buried with him or baptized into his death would appear to follow repentance. I think repentant works are the works of faith. So hearing the word ,faith ,works of repentance.i GUESS BELIEVING IS A REPENTANT WORK. then THERE IS SEEK, ASK, AND knock..again i'm thinking out loud. This is kind of circular . maybe true repentance is also salvation?? Which leads to more repentance then greater knowledge and working out of our salvation etc. Maybe this once willing heart never stops an on going process of being changed from glory to glory. It seems like repentance is salvation for this is the point of belief. Maybe repentance and salvation are one and the same and this is why I find it hard to separate the two. I;m not sure What do you think?? I'll think and pray more about it. I hope this is not to confusing I'm just contemplating the question outloud.
C
Was Cain contrite?
What happened to Cain after he told God, 'My punishment is too much to bear.'
Gen. 4
13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
Did God...
A) Smite him
B) Mark him.
C) Punish him.
D) Use him.
What was Cain's response?
Did God have compassion on that murderer, Cain ?
How did God esteem Cain for accepting His punishment?
Read deeper into Gen. 4 ?
What about mercy?
You think God liked Cain accepting his punishment, but still sticking up for himself
How today do things differ to yesterday's 'beginning,' to tomorrow's future?
Because Christ sent His Son to shed His blood for us, did that event change things? Are we still to be broken/have contriteness well up in our spirit, after we are to 'Repent! The kingdom of heaven is at hand?'
Who does say God say He esteems and is well pleased with?
Simple, isn't it? One who has a contrite heart and who trembles at His Word.
I love this word, for our understanding and acceptance, and, perhaps, most important of the three, embracement, lies within.
con·trite (k n-tr t , k n tr t ). adj. 1. Feeling regret and sorrow for one's sins or offenses; penitent. 2. Arising from or expressing contrition: contrite words.
Godly sorrow is an issuance of our spirit accepting His life for us and then following after His wanton perfection for us as best we humanly can, as we battle our weaknesses with His grace sufficient in us to battle us past the torment and torturous existence that our spirits so pressedly want us to unfleshly hold.
The Lord leads, this quite simply composites my belief in my Father in Heaven's way for me
What happened to Cain after he told God, 'My punishment is too much to bear.'
Gen. 4
13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
Did God...
A) Smite him
B) Mark him.
C) Punish him.
D) Use him.
What was Cain's response?
Did God have compassion on that murderer, Cain ?
How did God esteem Cain for accepting His punishment?
Read deeper into Gen. 4 ?
What about mercy?
You think God liked Cain accepting his punishment, but still sticking up for himself
How today do things differ to yesterday's 'beginning,' to tomorrow's future?
Because Christ sent His Son to shed His blood for us, did that event change things? Are we still to be broken/have contriteness well up in our spirit, after we are to 'Repent! The kingdom of heaven is at hand?'
Who does say God say He esteems and is well pleased with?
Simple, isn't it? One who has a contrite heart and who trembles at His Word.
I love this word, for our understanding and acceptance, and, perhaps, most important of the three, embracement, lies within.
con·trite (k n-tr t , k n tr t ). adj. 1. Feeling regret and sorrow for one's sins or offenses; penitent. 2. Arising from or expressing contrition: contrite words.
Godly sorrow is an issuance of our spirit accepting His life for us and then following after His wanton perfection for us as best we humanly can, as we battle our weaknesses with His grace sufficient in us to battle us past the torment and torturous existence that our spirits so pressedly want us to unfleshly hold.
The Lord leads, this quite simply composites my belief in my Father in Heaven's way for me
I like this composite, would you mind adding more of your thoughts to it, especially to those questions, please?
C
G
Repentance is something the Spirit leads us to do, cee, we can do it once, or, many times, the Lord leads.
There is no legalism in Christ Jesus, the only thing that is illegal is not following Him, and, that becomes blasphemy when we turn our back on He in us who is leading us, that is, denying Him, and, that is, in essence, accepting Satan's ways as 'master' of our life.
The person with a contrite heart will be given much from God, for their fruit is seen, humbly so, by God our maker and Jesus our Saviour, and, the Holy Spirit, our Helper, who are One. And, to deny one is to deny all, but blasphemy starts with the Holy Spirit who is inside the temple of we who believe and who ACCEPT the Lord's leading for our life, with fruit shown us by Him, as we follow.
This is how the Spirit reveals all truth to our spirit , by trembling at His word and His word (words spoken to.our heart, through visions, spiritual gifts issuance/giving, etc.) God is all and all, cee, '...you follow Me.' John 21:22
Note: Repent! The kingdom of Heaven is at hand . This said refers to leaving, turning from your sorely life through Spirit's conviction, to serving Christ. I.think, some call this 'true repentance.'
There is no legalism in Christ Jesus, the only thing that is illegal is not following Him, and, that becomes blasphemy when we turn our back on He in us who is leading us, that is, denying Him, and, that is, in essence, accepting Satan's ways as 'master' of our life.
The person with a contrite heart will be given much from God, for their fruit is seen, humbly so, by God our maker and Jesus our Saviour, and, the Holy Spirit, our Helper, who are One. And, to deny one is to deny all, but blasphemy starts with the Holy Spirit who is inside the temple of we who believe and who ACCEPT the Lord's leading for our life, with fruit shown us by Him, as we follow.
This is how the Spirit reveals all truth to our spirit , by trembling at His word and His word (words spoken to.our heart, through visions, spiritual gifts issuance/giving, etc.) God is all and all, cee, '...you follow Me.' John 21:22
Note: Repent! The kingdom of Heaven is at hand . This said refers to leaving, turning from your sorely life through Spirit's conviction, to serving Christ. I.think, some call this 'true repentance.'
Last edited by a moderator:
C
Repentance is something the Spirit leads us to do, cee, we can do it once, or, many times, the Lord leads.
There is no legalism in Christ Jesus, the only thing that is illegal is not following Him, and, that becomes blasphemy when we turn our back on He in us who is leading us, that is, denying Him, and, that is, in essence, accepting Satan's ways as 'master' of our life.
The person with a contrite heart will be given much from God, for their fruit is seen, humbly so, by God our maker and Jesus our Saviour, and, the Holy Spirit, our Helper, who are One. And, to deny one is to deny all, but blasphemy starts with the Holy Spirit who is inside the temple of we who believe and who ACCEPT the Lord's leading for our life, with fruit shown us by Him, as we follow.
This is how the Spirit reveals all truth to our spirit , by trembling at His word and His word (words spoken to.our heart, through visions, spiritual gifts issuance/giving, etc.) God is all and all, cee, '...you follow Me.' John 21:22
There is no legalism in Christ Jesus, the only thing that is illegal is not following Him, and, that becomes blasphemy when we turn our back on He in us who is leading us, that is, denying Him, and, that is, in essence, accepting Satan's ways as 'master' of our life.
The person with a contrite heart will be given much from God, for their fruit is seen, humbly so, by God our maker and Jesus our Saviour, and, the Holy Spirit, our Helper, who are One. And, to deny one is to deny all, but blasphemy starts with the Holy Spirit who is inside the temple of we who believe and who ACCEPT the Lord's leading for our life, with fruit shown us by Him, as we follow.
This is how the Spirit reveals all truth to our spirit , by trembling at His word and His word (words spoken to.our heart, through visions, spiritual gifts issuance/giving, etc.) God is all and all, cee, '...you follow Me.' John 21:22
Do we continue to live in regret of our past life in our walk with God, or do we move on, letting the past be the past and look towards better things?
G
None of the above. Not just continuous and not just once, not necessarily, but His process for us. The Lord leads. Repent=turn away. And, in a biblical sense, repent means turn from our sin.
That sin we do, that we are covered by the blood for doing, is something we are cleansed of by confession that leads to faithful forgiveness from God who cleanses us as many times as He leads us to, by His Son's shed blood that was done by the Cross as propitiation for bringing us rightly back to God, from having been enemies of Him . The Lord leads, cee.
Repentance, for most, is a continuous process, because we lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, adultery, drug-up, etc. in our lives, this is the fleshly struggle we all have despite, yes, too, having His Spirit in us, we are of flesh and blood though, yes, we are still, crucified with Christ . We must repent, which,simply, is turn away from the thing (sin) that is not allowing the Lord to lead our life. We are needing loosed, and, He in us is greater than he who is in the world.
That sin we do, that we are covered by the blood for doing, is something we are cleansed of by confession that leads to faithful forgiveness from God who cleanses us as many times as He leads us to, by His Son's shed blood that was done by the Cross as propitiation for bringing us rightly back to God, from having been enemies of Him . The Lord leads, cee.
Repentance, for most, is a continuous process, because we lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, adultery, drug-up, etc. in our lives, this is the fleshly struggle we all have despite, yes, too, having His Spirit in us, we are of flesh and blood though, yes, we are still, crucified with Christ . We must repent, which,simply, is turn away from the thing (sin) that is not allowing the Lord to lead our life. We are needing loosed, and, He in us is greater than he who is in the world.
C
Trying not to get off the subject too much, I need to ask: the repentance of the child from the rebellion is different than the child of God? In the sense that the one from the rebellion asks to be delivered from his rebellious life and be brought to the Light, while the child of God, onced delivered from that darkness, only needs to ask forgiveness when he acts upon the sin which so easily beseech him?
When do we overcome that sin we do? That is, when do we die to the flesh and become alive to the Spirit? Can we continue to walk on the same path as before, although the Spirit leads on another path?
This is not questioning what you believe, but trying to understand when willful sin stops? how long can we continue to willfully sin and blame it on our flesh?
When do we overcome that sin we do? That is, when do we die to the flesh and become alive to the Spirit? Can we continue to walk on the same path as before, although the Spirit leads on another path?
This is not questioning what you believe, but trying to understand when willful sin stops? how long can we continue to willfully sin and blame it on our flesh?
C
Allow me to rephrase that, Greenie. I know we can sin in our walk with God, hence, the purpose of the Throne of Grace. And I accept that. But, what I am trying to understand also: If a child of God is not under the Law, then he cannot sin in that nature. So then, a child of God's sin is not based on those things, but as you said and I agree to, is based on not hearkening to the Spriit (as they did in the wilderness). So, my question is: how can a child of God live in habitual sin if he is not under the Law? So the sins which are catagorized under the Law has to come to a stop before we come under the new Law in Christ: the leading of the Spirit, otherwise we are under two schoolmasters. So, we must die to one and become alive to the other and our obedeince is of fatih and not works.
Think back to when you were young.
When you lied did you feel it was wrong?
When you stole did you feel it was wrong?
when you were mean, did it feel wrong?
As you grew did you try to be good but always fail?
I believe the Holy Spirit is given to guide and comfort against the nature of "self" that determines much in this world.
Each day we learn and grow...
Once we were judging ourselves by ourselves...
Hitting the Rock one soon realizes that notion was leading them one way indeed... oh and i learnt i deserved it too.... Then the Love grows into:
" Thy will be done "
When you lied did you feel it was wrong?
When you stole did you feel it was wrong?
when you were mean, did it feel wrong?
As you grew did you try to be good but always fail?
I believe the Holy Spirit is given to guide and comfort against the nature of "self" that determines much in this world.
Each day we learn and grow...
Once we were judging ourselves by ourselves...
Hitting the Rock one soon realizes that notion was leading them one way indeed... oh and i learnt i deserved it too.... Then the Love grows into:
" Thy will be done "