*******Parable of the Faithful Steward

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#21
***Just like there will be different rewards in heaven (I Corinthians 3:12-15)---there will be different levels of punishment****Judas received much from the Lord and then betrayed Him---Jesus said it would be better that he had not been born...
Amen! 1 Corinthians 3:14 - If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss (of reward) but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Matthew 23:14 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

In regards to Judas Iscariot, to the rest of the disciples, Judas may have looked like the real deal, yet Jesus knew his heart and understood that he was an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#22
"The unjust steward is nothing less than the Christ-figure in this parable, a dead ringer for Jesus himself. First of all, he dies and rises, like Jesus. Second, by his death and resurrection, he raises others, like Jesus. But third and most important of all, the unjust steward is the Christ-figure because he is a crook, like Jesus. The unique contribution of this parable to our understanding of Jesus is its insistence that grace cannot come to the world through respectability. Respectability regards only life, success, winning; it will have no truck with the grace that works by death and losing – which is the only kind of grace there is.

This parable, therefore, says in story form what Jesus himself said by his life. He was not respectable. He broke the sabbath. He consorted with crooks. And he died as a criminal. Now at last, in the light of this parable, we see why he refused to be respectable; he did it to catch a world that respectability could only terrify and condemn. He became sin for us sinners, weak for us weaklings, lost for us losers, and dead for us dead. Crux muscipulum diaboli, St. Augustine said: the cross is the devil’s mousetrap, baited with Jesus’ disreputable death. And it is a mousetrap for us, too. Jesus baits us criminals with his own criminality: as the shabby debtors in the parable were willing to deal only with the crooked steward and not with the upright lord, so we find ourselves drawn by the bait of a Jesus who winks at iniquity and makes friends of sinners – of us crooks, that is – and of all the losers who would never in a million years go near a God who knew what was expected of himself and insisted on what he expected of others.

You don’t like that? You think it lowers standards and threatens good order? You bet it does! And if you will cast your mind back, you will recall that is exactly why the forces of righteousness got rid of Jesus. Unfortunately, though, the church has never been able for very long to leave Jesus looking like the attractively crummy character he is: it can hardly resist the temptation to gussy him up into a respectable citizen. Even more unfortunately, it can almost never resist the temptation to gussy itself up into a bunch of supposedly perfect peaches, too good for the riffraff to sink their teeth into. But for all that, Jesus remains the only real peach – too fuzzy on the outside, nowhere near as sweet as we expected on the inside, and with the jawbreaking stone of his death right smack in the middle. And therefore he is the only mediator and advocate the likes of us will ever be able to trust, because like the unjust steward, he is no less a loser than we are – and like the steward, he is the only one who has even a chance of getting the Lord God to give us a kind word."


- Robert Farrar Capon
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
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#23
Amen! 1 Corinthians 3:14 - If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss (of reward) but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Matthew 23:14 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

In regards to Judas Iscariot, to the rest of the disciples, Judas may have looked like the real deal, yet Jesus knew his heart and understood that he was an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).
*** Judas cast out devils---- Satan cannot cast out Satan---- the guy in Acts who tried to cast out devils got torn up by the devil---to cast out devils you must be linked to the Lord or have been linked at one time---- Satan cannot cast out Satan for his kingdom would fall--- this may sound simplistic but to many " Calvinist" they dismiss backsliding as he or she was never saved--- I' m sorry I don' t buy that as a solid answer in every case--- could be in some but not all...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#24
*** Judas cast out devils---- Satan cannot cast out Satan---- the guy in Acts who tried to cast out devils got torn up by the devil---to cast out devils you must be linked to the Lord or have been linked at one time---- Satan cannot cast out Satan for his kingdom would fall--- this may sound simplistic but to many " Calvinist" they dismiss backsliding as he or she was never saved--- I' m sorry I don' t buy that as a solid answer in every case--- could be in some but not all...
Who said anything about Satan casting out Satan? In Matthew 10:1, we read - He (Jesus) gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Jesus gave them this power to do so, but that doesn't mean that Judas was saved. Remember that Jesus referred to Judas as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Does that sound like saved to you?

What does scripture say about Judas?

Judas was a devil. John 6:70-71
Judas was a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer. Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor. John 12:6
Judas was spiritually unclean. John 13:11
Judas guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11
Judas is a wicked man. Psalms 109:6
Judas is condemned. Psalms 109:7
Judas is the son of perdition. John 17:12

Not descriptive of someone who is saved. I'm not buying your argument at all.
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
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#25
Who said anything about Satan casting out Satan? In Matthew 10:1, we read - He (Jesus) gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Jesus gave them this power to do so, but that doesn't mean that Judas was saved. Remember that Jesus referred to Judas as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Does that sound like saved to you?

What does scripture say about Judas?

Judas was a devil. John 6:70-71
Judas was a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer. Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor. John 12:6
Judas was spiritually unclean. John 13:11
Judas guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11
Judas is a wicked man. Psalms 109:6
Judas is condemned. Psalms 109:7
Judas is the son of perdition. John 17:12

Not descriptive of someone who is saved. I'm not buying your argument at all.
*** Acts 1:17 says he was numbered with the disciples and had part in the ministry---- I believe he was a true disciple---you can't receive power from Christ to do His works without being in relationship to Him---you can receive power and choose your own path ---- even Paul could have been lost---- he was exalted almost above measure like Satan because of the revelations he had received but chose to humble himself---I would no take the position of saying someone is saved or not based on whether they backslide---- two people know if you are saved--- yourself--- because we can know and have assurance we have passed from death to life & God Himself...--- I will post you a debate between James White and Dr. Michael Brown on Predestination--- Election--- and the Will of God...
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#26
*** Acts 1:17 says he was numbered with the disciples and had part in the ministry---- I believe he was a true disciple---you can't receive power from Christ to do His works without being in relationship to Him---you can receive power and choose your own path ---- even Paul could have been lost---- he was exalted almost above measure like Satan because of the revelations he had received but chose to humble himself---I would no take the position of saying someone is saved or not based on whether they backslide---- two people know if you are saved--- yourself--- because we can know and have assurance we have passed from death to life & God Himself...--- I will post you a debate between James White and Dr. Michael Brown on Predestination--- Election--- and the Will of God...
Being numbered with someone is not necessarily indicative of being one of them....show one verse that states that Judas did one miracle.....Jesus also said that the tares grow with the wheat......I do not believe Judas was saved and lost it....it said he was a DEVIL from the beginning.......
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
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#27
Being numbered with someone is not necessarily indicative of being one of them....show one verse that states that Judas did one miracle.....Jesus also said that the tares grow with the wheat......I do not believe Judas was saved and lost it....it said he was a DEVIL from the beginning.......
***I believe even Judas could have changed his mind when Christ gave him the sop (John 13:26) (showing Judas honor and appealing to his heart--- but then he hardened his heart--"-then" Satan entered his heart) ---God's foreknowledge does not determine our free will---Judas had part of the ministry (Acts 1:17) NIV says he shared in our ministry---Judas was part of the group and no one knew that he would betray Christ---even to the Last Supper---I know some believe some are predestined to be saved and some are predestined to be damned, but I just don't see it---whosoever will may come---and some that come do depart---we are not held against our will---it is not God's desire to lose any but this means His heart's desire not His ultimate plan---when we get to heaven let's plan to meet and ask the Lord about it---it will be good to hear how the Lord will explain it...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,047
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#28
*** Acts 1:17 says he was numbered with the disciples and had part in the ministry---- I believe he was a true disciple---you can't receive power from Christ to do His works without being in relationship to Him---you can receive power and choose your own path ---- even Paul could have been lost---- he was exalted almost above measure like Satan because of the revelations he had received but chose to humble himself---I would no take the position of saying someone is saved or not based on whether they backslide---- two people know if you are saved--- yourself--- because we can know and have assurance we have passed from death to life & God Himself...--- I will post you a debate between James White and Dr. Michael Brown on Predestination--- Election--- and the Will of God...
So you are going to simply ignore these passages of Scripture in post #24 that clearly show Judas was not saved in order to follow your own personal logic and understanding as to why you believe that Judas was saved? Being numbered with the disciples and having a part in the ministry still does not prove that Judas was saved. Why would Jesus call Judas a devil if he was saved? (John 6:70). In John 13:10 - Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." In verse 18, Jesus goes on to say - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.'
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#29
"The unjust steward is nothing less than the Christ-figure in this parable, a dead ringer for Jesus himself. First of all, he dies and rises, like Jesus. Second, by his death and resurrection, he raises others, like Jesus. But third and most important of all, the unjust steward is the Christ-figure because he is a crook, like Jesus.
what the ....?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#30
***I believe even Judas could have changed his mind when Christ gave him the sop (John 13:26) (showing Judas honor and appealing to his heart--- but then he hardened his heart--"-then" Satan entered his heart) ---God's foreknowledge does not determine our free will---Judas had part of the ministry (Acts 1:17) NIV says he shared in our ministry---Judas was part of the group and no one knew that he would betray Christ---even to the Last Supper---I know some believe some are predestined to be saved and some are predestined to be damned, but I just don't see it---whosoever will may come---and some that come do depart---we are not held against our will---it is not God's desire to lose any but this means His heart's desire not His ultimate plan---when we get to heaven let's plan to meet and ask the Lord about it---it will be good to hear how the Lord will explain it...
Judas had a choice.....end of story....having said that.....God is outside the realm of time and knew what choices Judas would make....hence being called a devil from the beginning......and being able to prophesy about Judas ahead of schedule........the scriptures seem clear to me...Judas was lost and was chosen because Judas was the one that would sell out Jesus...was the thief with the bag and was called a devil from the beginning.........no way around the verses......
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#32
So you are going to simply ignore these passages of Scripture in post #24 that clearly show Judas was not saved in order to follow your own personal logic and understanding as to why you believe that Judas was saved? Being numbered with the disciples and having a part in the ministry still does not prove that Judas was saved. Why would Jesus call Judas a devil if he was saved? (John 6:70). In John 13:10 - Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." In verse 18, Jesus goes on to say - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.'
*** foreknowledge does not hinder free will--- God could tell us personally what we will do tommorrow--- we still have free will--- Judas was not predestined to be lost or betray Christ --- he choose this path---- God 's call is whosoever will may come--- I believe Judas started off right but got corrupted by political fervor and greed----even Kramer can turn to the Lord...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,047
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#34
*** foreknowledge does not hinder free will
Never said it did.

God could tell us personally what we will do tommorrow--- we still have free will---
Amen!

Judas was not predestined to be lost or betray Christ --- he choose this path----
Romans 8:29 - For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. I believe that being predestined is based on God's foreknowledge and not on His fatalistic determination.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

God 's call is whosoever will may come---
Amen!

I believe Judas started off right but got corrupted by political fervor and greed----even Kramer can turn to the Lord...
"You" believe but where does the Bible say that Judas was ever saved? I believe what Jesus said in (John 6:64, 70; 13:10-11).
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#35
Why would Jesus call Judas a devil if he was saved? (John 6:70).
Since faith requires one to believe all things then maybe he was talking about Peter? Or maybe we aret suppose to believe all things are possible only until we discern what is true because by faith we have come to the knowledge that all things are not possible,

But those without faith can summarily believe what they want and discard the rest because they believe that all things are possible. After all
it is written in
Mark 9:23, "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth."

Then again maybe he was referring unto all his disciples since they being many are still one body in Christ. Of course, if the LORD doesn't reveal it from heaven then one could have searched the scriptures and made inquiry and read the NT scriptures and never perceived that those referred unto as demons, and having unclean spirits or devils had one similar trait, they all referred unto the man as Jesus the Christ, the Son of God.***
[SUP]{See scriptures noted below}[/SUP]

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:15-17

So it seems somewhat ironic that those who are referred unto as devils could have only know Jesus was the Christ if the Father had revealed it unto them since man had not written the NT yet.

There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him:
but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. Mark 7:15

Or was it was what the devils were saying that defiled them?

And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
John 13:27

So who did Jesus say unto, That thou doest, do quickly? Satan or Judas? So if Satan entered into Judas does that mean that Satan is one of the seven Spirits of God before the throne of God as referenced in the NT. However, if Satan entered Judas from the sop then what does that do to the credibility of Mark 7:15 noted above.

However, it is written that the devils believe in one God and tremble, so if one is saved by believing in God then how could Judas not be saved if his belief in God didn't save him since the only thing in scriptures that could have caused Judas a devil was his telling the chief priests the truth regarding Jesus's location since it was the will of God that according to Matt 16:21.

And what did Jesus tell his disciples:

Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. (Matthew 16:20)

NOTES:***


Mark 1:23 & 24
23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mark 1:26
And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.
Mark 1:34
And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.
Luke 8:27-28
27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Luke 4:41
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
 
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88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#36
Parable of the Faithful Steward (or the goodman of the house) Matthew 24:45-51 ***Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hat mad ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? (45) ***Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. (46) ***Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. (47) ***But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; (48) ***And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; (49) ***The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, (50) ***And shall cut him asunder, and appoint his his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (51)
**** sounds like unfaithfulness can lead to sin and sin can cause an appointment with the hypocrites and judgment----this Parable is teaching faithfulness --- one reason we need to be faithful to what God has given us is to keep from sinning---and possible judgment and hell--- King David was suppose to be at war when he fell with Bathseba--- if he had been faithful in his duties he would have not fallen--- Be Faithful--- avoid being beaten with many or few stripes...
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#37
Parable of the Faithful Steward (or the goodman of the house) Matthew 24:45-51 ***Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hat mad ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? (45) ***Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. (46) ***Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. (47) ***But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; (48) ***And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; (49) ***The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, (50) ***And shall cut him asunder, and appoint his his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (51)
****with all the talk about Grace in these day (which is good) what has happened to the message of faithfulness...? Are people relying on Grace to give them victory or excuses...?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#38
Parable of the Faithful Steward (or the goodman of the house) Matthew 24:45-51 ***Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hat mad ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? (45) ***Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. (46) ***Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. (47) ***But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; (48) ***And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; (49) ***The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, (50) ***And shall cut him asunder, and appoint his his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (51)
****get Prepared for the Lord's Coming by being about your Father's Business---the reason some of you are messed up is because you are out of the flow of what God has for you to do----I'm not talking about works for Salvation, but seeking what God's purpose is for your life---quit diddling around and do it----King David failed God because he was at home and not at war---he saw Bathsheba and messed up his kingship----be busy with what God has for you and not what people are telling you (I felt impressed of the Lord to say that)----if you will get with it many of your problems will be solved...