Paradise

[cfultz3]

Well, righteous technology.



What I mean is, what if we can build whatever our imagination is, as long as it doesn't cause any chaos. Not a qualifier for me personally, but I wouldn't want to hinder anyone's imagination when I said garden style. That was all.

I see what you mean. I often fancy being given a big purple planet to build a beautiful garden world in honor and graditute to my God and Savior.

 

[RickShafer]

I got this one that He made.
That's all I ever wanted.

 

[cfultz3]

I got this one that He made.
That's all I ever wanted.

me too. Just a fansy.

 

[kenisyes]

Cfultz3 is right.
My sister went there one time went she almost died.
Everything she described was paradise, complete with animals she knew(friends pets, not her's - else she wouldn't have wanted to return), some interesting forms of angels-(getting her to breath), and no people.
See-No souls of humans.
They had already been expedited to heaven when Jesus became the first fruits of righteousness.
Before that, I believe it had many faithful souls in waiting.
She doesn't know about paradise, she thinks it was a form of heaven.
But from her description, it matched what the Bible says about Abraham's bosom perfectly.

I have heard some people say this is the entry room of heaven. Is that the same as paradise?

 

[kenisyes]

umm i have to look that up my self i haven't read about that, that's in Hebrews right

No, it's in the Talmud. Pardes (legend) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for the literal
Pardes (Jewish exegesis) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for the symbolic

I'm not saying you should believe any of this.

 

[onel]

IT WAS the Creator’s original purpose, and it still is his purpose, that obedient humans enjoy never-aging life, ever overflowing with youthful vigor, free from all boredom, always having a worthy purpose to fulfill, a life of loving and being loved in a true, unselfish way, perfectly—in a paradise!—
Genesis 2:8- "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed".

Unfortunately Adam and Eve sinned by deliberately breaking God’s law. So GOD put them out of the garden of Eden. Paradise was lost.
-Genesis 3:1-6,-"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.*
*Genesis 3: 23- So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

But GOD has not forgotten his purpose for this earth. He promises to make it into a paradise, where humans will live forever. How will he do this?
*Psalm 37:29 " the righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever"

Before this earth can become a paradise, wicked people must be removed.
*Psalm 37:38- "But all sinners will be destroyed; the future of the wicked will be cut off."

This will happen at Armageddon, which is God’s war to end wickedness. Next, Satan will be imprisoned for 1,000 years. This means that no wicked ones will be left to spoil the earth. Only God’s people will survive.
*Revelation 16:14 -;16; 20:1-3.

Then Jesus Christ will rule as King over this earth for 1,000 years.
*Revelation 20:6 -" Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years".

He will gradually take sin away from our minds and bodies. We will become perfect humans just as Adam and Eve were before they sinned. Then there will be no more sickness, old age, and death. Sick people will be cured, and old persons will become young again
Job 33:25; -"..then his flesh is renewed like a child's; it is restored as in the days of his youth."
Isaiah 33:24; -"No one living in Zion will say, "I am ill"; and the sins of those who dwell there will be forgiven".
Revelation 21:3,4*-" And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

During Jesus’ Thousand Year Reign, faithful humans will work to turn the whole earth into a paradise. Also, millions of dead ones will be resurrected to human life on the earth.
Acts 24:15-"..and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked".
John 5:28,*29- "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned".

If they do what God requires of them, they will continue to live on earth forever. If not, they will be destroyed forever
Revelation 20:11-15"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

[iamsoandso]

"if it were a state of mind Christ would have said",,,"today we are together in paradise",,,,that is as they hung together on their crosses(in the same mind-frame),,,,"paradise",,Strong's #3857,,,,is used (3 times)in scripture,,Luke 23;43,,,2cor.12;4,,and rev.2;7,,,,,
(1) in Luke 23;43,,it is stated by Christ himself that they would be their together(today)not present tense as they hung on the cross,,,but future tense (after death),that they would be their together.
(2) rev.2.7,,,"eat of the tree of life ect.,,,,midst of the paradise of god",,,here is also the "tree of life",,,which was in the garden of Eden,,gen.2;9-17,,,,
(3),,,which i took out of order on purpose,,,,"second Corinthians 12;4",,,,,"which things are not lawful to utter",,,verse one of chapter 12,,"visions and revaluations",,,,,,verse 2 and 3 he explains twice if he was dead and really there he did not know,,or if almost dead and then shown this in a vision????,,,,,"god knows",,,,,but notice Paul did not know if he did die and then saw this and was then raised from the dead, or if he was stoned almost to death and was shown a vision,,,"god knoweth"........
but you said in the beginning "it was a Hebrew word",,,paradise,,tho it is not it is Greek,,i waited patiently for you to connect it to the garden of Eden,,,where the tree of life is,,,,,,,,gen 2;15,,,put the man,,,did you notice he was not created in the garden(paradise),,,but put there later??????,,,and then driven out?????,,,,and who named what?,notice god named some gen.1;5-gen2;19,,,,,,,here is another clue,,,,,Adam did not name it,,,,,,god did,,,,,

 

[kenisyes]

During Jesus’ Thousand Year Reign, faithful humans will work to turn the whole earth into a paradise.

I am confused about this one point. If we must work to turn earth into a paradise at some point in the future, where is Paradise now? Why not just bring it from wherever it is, and save that part of the work?

 

[kenisyes]

but you said in the beginning "it was a Hebrew word",,,paradise,,tho it is not it is Greek,,i waited patiently for you to connect it to the garden of Eden,,,where the tree of life is,,,,,,,,gen 2;15,,,put the man,,,did you notice he was not created in the garden(paradise),,,but put there later??????,,,and then driven out?????,,,,and who named what?,notice god named some gen.1;5-gen2;19,,,,,,,here is another clue,,,,,Adam did not name it,,,,,,god did,,,,,

I did not connect it, because Pardes is the Hebrew word borrowed from Persia. In Persia it means garden. However, garden in Hebrew is "gan". God named it "Eden" which means "delight". I know of no Scripture that supports the Talmud's claim that Paradise is related to Eden. Pardes is used couple times in the OT Hebrew, where it is translated orchard or forest. The Greek word is derived from the Hebrew. They may well be the same, I don't know.

 

[iamsoandso]

I did not connect it, because Pardes is the Hebrew word borrowed from Persia. In Persia it means garden. However, garden in Hebrew is "gan". God named it "Eden" which means "delight". I know of no Scripture that supports the Talmud's claim that Paradise is related to Eden. Pardes is used couple times in the OT Hebrew, where it is translated orchard or forest. The Greek word is derived from the Hebrew. They may well be the same, I don't know.

,,,,,,oh i see,,pardes,,,and not the same three words used for paradise in the only three scriptures in the new testament?,,,the three i quoted?,,,i say i quoted,that is Paul is an apostle,,me nor you are,,,and the other two times left in scripture this word "paradise" is used is by the Christ himself,,,,and me nor you are the Messiah,,so shouldn't we remain with the word the Christ chose to use,both out of his own mouth and in the spirit through Paul?,,,who do we beg to differ with Christ?,,,,that is if the lord chose to say pardes,he would have,,yet he did not,,,but rather stated it in the Greek,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

let me say it another way,,,,,,,,,,,"pardes of paradise",,,,,,,,god named the pardes(garden/forest),,,,eden/paradise,,,,,,,,"the name of the pardes is paradise",,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

lol,,,it's difficult to see but we have both said the same thing two different ways,,,,,,,,,,garden,forest,pardes,,ect,,,notice the tree of life "is in the pardes called eden",,rev.2;7,,,,and gen chap 1and2,,,,,,,,same pardes,,,,

 

[kenisyes]

,,,,,,oh i see,,pardes,,,and not the same three words used for paradise in the only three scriptures in the new testament?,,,the three i quoted?,,,i say i quoted,that is Paul is an apostle,,me nor you are,,,and the other two times left in scripture this word "paradise" is used is by the Christ himself,,,,and me nor you are the Messiah,,so shouldn't we remain with the word the Christ chose to use,both out of his own mouth and in the spirit through Paul?,,,who do we beg to differ with Christ?,,,,that is if the lord chose to say pardes,he would have,,yet he did not,,,but rather stated it in the Greek,,,,,,,

It is the same word. Pardes in Persian became pardes in Hebrew became paradeisos in Greek became Paradise in English. But Hebrew does not use the word pardes to mean the garden. Only Rev. 2:7 links it to Eden, the "gan" in Hebrew, by mentioning the tree of life. That cannot prove Eden is paradise, because the tree of life might have been moved in preparation for the new earth to be created.

Paul proves paradise exists. Jesus on the cross proves it exists. Jesus in the letter to the church at Ephesus proves the tree of life is there. But no one has stated the garden of Eden is there.

Just because the word meant garden in Persian, the OT itself proves it did not mean Garden of Eden in Hebrew.

 

[iamsoandso]

It is the same word. Pardes in Persian became pardes in Hebrew became paradeisos in Greek became Paradise in English. But Hebrew does not use the word pardes to mean the garden. Only Rev. 2:7 links it to Eden, the "gan" in Hebrew, by mentioning the tree of life. That cannot prove Eden is paradise, because the tree of life might have been moved in preparation for the new earth to be created.

Paul proves paradise exists. Jesus on the cross proves it exists. Jesus in the letter to the church at Ephesus proves the tree of life is there. But no one has stated the garden of Eden is there.

Just because the word meant garden in Persian, the OT itself proves it did not mean Garden of Eden in Hebrew.

.....correct,,,gen 2;15,,,,notice the man,,,was created in one place then put in the pardes gen2;15,,,then driven out gen 3;24,,,,,,,,

 

[hopesprings]

The paradise that Jesus was talking about, to the thief on the cross, was heaven. At least that is what I think. When Jesus told Mary not to touch him because he hadn't yet ascended to His Father, I think he was talking about his bodily ascension. For me, it kind of goes like this...Jesus was fully God and fully man - but only the man part of him could die (how can God die, afterall?). Once the man part of him was dead (buried in the grave), then he is still fully God. God is everywhere present. Because of this, I don't think that Jesus could have been confined anywhere, let alone not be present in heaven. I hope that makes sense.

 

[kenisyes]

.....correct,,,gen 2;15,,,,notice the man,,,was created in one place then put in the pardes gen2;15,,,then driven out gen 3;24,,,,,,,,

Sorry, both Gen 2:15 and Gen. 3:24, use the word "gan", not the word "pardes". Eccl. 2:5 proves they are different.

Part of the difference is gan is from ganan, to "fence in" or "hedge about". The word implies that Adam and Eve were protected by God. You can read the other page of this thread to see Mohammed's ideas of what pardes can mean in the Persian. In the world to come, we will not be fenced in; all eternity will be ours, that's why Jesus calls it the "paradise of God" and not just "paradise" in Rev. 2:7.

The connection to fenced in is also part of the Talmudic tradition, since they considered the Law a fence around our lives that kept us in God's protection, hence a new "gan". The Talmud is the source of the idea that the Law is also Paradise, and hence a new Eden. This, as far as I can see, is the only tradition connecting the two, other than Rev. 2:7 if you assume the tree of life has not been moved.

 

[RickShafer]

The paradise that Jesus was talking about, to the thief on the cross, was heaven. At least that is what I think. When Jesus told Mary not to touch him because he hadn't yet ascended to His Father, I think he was talking about his bodily ascension. For me, it kind of goes like this...Jesus was fully God and fully man - but only the man part of him could die (how can God die, afterall?). Once the man part of him was dead (buried in the grave), then he is still fully God. God is everywhere present. Because of this, I don't think that Jesus could have been confined anywhere, let alone not be present in heaven. I hope that makes sense.

Hope, I think what Jesus said to the thief is a reaffirmation that paradise was the place were 'saved' souls went before the final 'first fruits of righteousness'(Jesus), lead them into heaven.

 

[iamsoandso]

The paradise that Jesus was talking about, to the thief on the cross, was heaven. At least that is what I think. When Jesus told Mary not to touch him because he hadn't yet ascended to His Father, I think he was talking about his bodily ascension. For me, it kind of goes like this...Jesus was fully God and fully man - but only the man part of him could die (how can God die, afterall?). Once the man part of him was dead (buried in the grave), then he is still fully God. God is everywhere present. Because of this, I don't think that Jesus could have been confined anywhere, let alone not be present in heaven. I hope that makes sense.

and at first glance this would seem this way the scripture or scriptures you quote were john 20;17 "touch me not" and told her he would go,,,then notice the same day but in the evening he returned (from where?),,,as you point out heaven,and then returned,(second coming?),,,,,,,then go to to john 20;27 "reach hither",,and notice it is in response to what Thomas said in verse 25,,"touch",,,,,,,as you said though he told Mary "touch me not",,because he had not yet ascended,,,,then after 8 days told Thomas reach hither thy finger,,,,thy hand",,,that is he had ascended and returned,,,then go to john 20;22 "recieve ye the holy ghost",,,,and notice the that this is before the the day when they were all gathered in acts when they recieved the "comforter",,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

Sorry, both Gen 2:15 and Gen. 3:24, use the word "gan", not the word "pardes". Eccl. 2:5 proves they are different.

Part of the difference is gan is from ganan, to "fence in" or "hedge about". The word implies that Adam and Eve were protected by God. You can read the other page of this thread to see Mohammed's ideas of what pardes can mean in the Persian. In the world to come, we will not be fenced in; all eternity will be ours, that's why Jesus calls it the "paradise of God" and not just "paradise" in Rev. 2:7.

The connection to fenced in is also part of the Talmudic tradition, since they considered the Law a fence around our lives that kept us in God's protection, hence a new "gan". The Talmud is the source of the idea that the Law is also Paradise, and hence a new Eden. This, as far as I can see, is the only tradition connecting the two, other than Rev. 2:7 if you assume the tree of life has not been moved.

yes i only used the word pardes to denote "forest" because you referred to it in your post #29,,i knew gan was the correct word but since you brought up pardes i thought you were comfortable with its meaning and in gen.2;15 "to dress it and keep it",,,that is it would make no sense if gan was ment to be taken as "fenced/protected",,,that they were in tern to to dress it and keep it,,,and we should note if it were meant to be "protected by god" as used in this scripture then they being protected would not have been beguiled and eaten of the tree of knowledge,,,,,,,that if we say gan is protected by god,,,then eve,Adam,nor the serpent commited sin. that is if gan,denotes gods protection then he is who let the sin take place,but this cannot be correct,,,we have the story in chapter 2 of gen itself to affix that the word gan is used to denote "garden or forest",,,,,

 

[hopesprings]

Hope, I think what Jesus said to the thief is a reaffirmation that paradise was the place were 'saved' souls went before the final 'first fruits of righteousness'(Jesus), lead them into heaven.

I have to disagree I don't necessarily believe that there was a place where "saved" souls went before Jesus' death, well...a place other then heaven, I mean. I think that Abraham's bosom was being used figuratively, not necessarily as an actual place that the righteous man went before heaven was opened to him. Can you please tell me why you think that there was such a place?