Perfection, Holyness, Purity.

[my_adonai_]

Brothers and sisters.
i have heard people say that Only GOD is perfect, that it is not possible to live a fully Holy life.
but here is a thought to ponder,
We have everything JESUS has, so confuses me how we can say the above?

The Word of God speaks that
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

What do you understand from the above verses then? Do they not speak clearly of ability NOT TO SIN.
And if we close to GODs heart and prayed, would HE "not" lead us into temptation?
And does not the word of GOD say that, "Be ye PERFECT as your Father in Heaven is perfect".

Could constant falling to the same sin be due to lack of death to self? or lack of total surrender of that SIN to GOD? seeing that GOD through Christ sets us completely FREE from sin.!!.

Do you believe that we can PERFECTLY abide in the Word of GOD? and if not why not?
we have prayer, we have the Holy Ghost who makes us conscious of our drawing further from the FATHER so we may run back up before we fall into temptation or sin.

The word of God says that we should work out our own salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING, i tremble at the thought of being cast aside as a goat given that the FATHER has given us all the resources we need to be called SHEEP...

Do we entertain the flesh? Do we show doubt and lack of faith at times and say that (no one is perfect), the Lord loves a honest heart, whats your from the heart opinion?

Do we not know when we are about to sin? are that far from GOD?

Would GOD tell us to be something we can not be?

What is the difference between the three above?
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.


Whats your biblical view?

If human nature is the problem, does not the word of GOD have a remedy for that? ai

i have searched and sought for a loop hole in GOD excuse us of the sin we fall victim to daily, and i have found none.
Whats your biblical view? for i hear un-believers speak of such, that there is none perfect, or it is not possible to live without sin, should not our speech be different seeing we are SET APART and have access to the Kingdom of GOD and all its RIGHTEOUSNESS...

I know when i fall its due to lazyness, or excuses or complaining, and lacking faith in the word of GOD which is in-excusable.

 

[my_adonai_]

anyone has views?

 

[posthuman]

Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts not his wrongs!

(Psalm 32:2, Romans 4:8)

 

[konroh]

When we lose sight of "Christ in you the hope of glory" is when we falter, but God's grace shines through our weakness, in spite of our weakness.

 

[Kerry]

The cross and nothing you can do. Yes flesh loves law cause its you doing it.

 

[loveme1]

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The Messiah told us we must be born again:

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Abide in the Messiah by Keeping His Word for they give life.

 

[Cobus]

anyone has views?

Sinners think if they call on God's Grace their sins will be taken away, oh are they GRAVELY mistaken...... They think the hope in the CROSS will save them... Oh are they GRAVELY mistaken.... If they are not SAVED sinners, the will die in their sin... If they HOPE on the cross they never GOT TO THE CROSS...

Let me put it in biblical terms for them.... A Righteous person, is one whose sins ARE taken away, or God will not refer to him as righteous. A righteous person is righteous because he did go to the cross to be WASHED. Or else his old sin will still be stuck to him. But he hoped and followed to the cross, and are now CLEANSED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS... he does not live in sin or do it no more... he lives a holy righteous life, that is why God calls him righteous. And he is as righteous evn as God is righteous,,,,1 John 3...


And then God says this.... 1 Peter 4:18.... And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Also this verse should shake their cages.... 2 Peter 2:9... The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Just ONE SIN is enough to make a person UNGODLY/unjust... just one sin, ANY SIN.... So decide if you want God to save you or not.... Just ASK God to save you... that is ALL you have to do, and then BELIVE HE SHALL.....Oh boy, He really does not fail or disappoint.... His salvation is to HIS CALLING..... A HIGH CALLING IN CHRIST JESUS...

Look to what God called us..... 1 Thes 4:7...For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

 

[tdrew777]

Rom 7:14-25 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in a the members of my body, waging war against the d law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from a b the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Paul wrote this, in the present tense, when he was a well-seasoned believer. In the logical context of the letter, it comes after his description of the salvation experience. Clearly (as in Galatians 5) the bible teaches that the believer has 2 natures. The old nature can not please God, is not even able to do so. The new nature is incorruptible. But our soul is a battle ground - we need to live out the salvation that was given to us.

Our hope is to be holy. It is not, as worldly hope is, subject to chance. Our hope is secure - it is our sure destiny. We will be holy. The regenerated nature will dominate our glorified bodies. Therefore, as an anchor hold a ship roughly in place (when the anchored ship is blown in one direction it starts off, but soon winds back towards the anchor) so our souls (the unseen part of who we are - emotions, thoughts, etc.) are held roughly in place by our hope - holiness.

Heb 6: 18-20 in order that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have strong encouragement, we who have fled for refuge in laying hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek

 

[Cobus]

The cross and nothing you can do. Yes flesh loves law cause its you doing it.

Kerry you reached the cross yet? NAIL THE OLD KERRY TO THAT CROSS UNTIL HE IS DEAD.... Go my friend go CRUCIFY THE OLD KERRY... EVERY DAY UNTIL HE IS DEAD!!!!! Go nail the sin on the cross... Go Kerry GO.... GO MY FRIEND GO.... GO NAIL SIN ON THE CROSS UNTIL HE IS DEAD!!!!CROSS kerry CROSS.... Go and NAIL SOMETHING TO THE CROSS.. GO NAIL KERRY ON THE CROSS... TILL KERRY IS DEAD. GO KERRY...

 

[Nick01]

Sinners think if they call on God's Grace their sins will be taken away, oh are they GRAVELY mistaken...... They think the hope in the CROSS will save them... Oh are they GRAVELY mistaken.... If they are not SAVED sinners, the will die in their sin... If they HOPE on the cross they never GOT TO THE CROSS...

He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and looked down on everyone else:“Two men went up to the temple complex to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee took his stand and was praying like this: ‘God, I thank You that I’m not like other people —greedy, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of everything I get.’
“But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even raise his eyes to heaven but kept striking his chest and saying, ‘God, turn Your wrath from me—a sinner!’ I tell you, this one went down to his house justified rather than the other; because everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

My question to you - which man was justified, and at which point was he justified?

 

[tdrew777]

My question to you - which man was justified, and at which point was he justified?

Good point - BUT
Justification is a legal declaration by the Judge, that a person is 1 - innocent (the old nature can not be held liable again - liability has been paid by Christ) 2 - Full of the righteousness of Christ (the reality IS that the person has a new nature - Jesus lives within!) But the justified person has a dual nature (as per Romans 7, Galatians 5).

The OP asks when does a person sin no longer? When is this hope of holiness realized? When is sanctification complete? This does not happen when a man is justified.

 

[Delija]

Brothers and sisters.
i have heard people say that Only GOD is perfect, that it is not possible to live a fully Holy life.
but here is a thought to ponder,
We have everything JESUS has, so confuses me how we can say the above?

The Word of God speaks that
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

What do you understand from the above verses then? Do they not speak clearly of ability NOT TO SIN.
And if we close to GODs heart and prayed, would HE "not" lead us into temptation?
And does not the word of GOD say that, "Be ye PERFECT as your Father in Heaven is perfect".

Could constant falling to the same sin be due to lack of death to self? or lack of total surrender of that SIN to GOD? seeing that GOD through Christ sets us completely FREE from sin.!!.

Do you believe that we can PERFECTLY abide in the Word of GOD? and if not why not?
we have prayer, we have the Holy Ghost who makes us conscious of our drawing further from the FATHER so we may run back up before we fall into temptation or sin.

The word of God says that we should work out our own salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING, i tremble at the thought of being cast aside as a goat given that the FATHER has given us all the resources we need to be called SHEEP...

Do we entertain the flesh? Do we show doubt and lack of faith at times and say that (no one is perfect), the Lord loves a honest heart, whats your from the heart opinion?

Do we not know when we are about to sin? are that far from GOD?

Would GOD tell us to be something we can not be?

What is the difference between the three above?
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.


Whats your biblical view?

If human nature is the problem, does not the word of GOD have a remedy for that? ai

i have searched and sought for a loop hole in GOD excuse us of the sin we fall victim to daily, and i have found none.
Whats your biblical view? for i hear un-believers speak of such, that there is none perfect, or it is not possible to live without sin, should not our speech be different seeing we are SET APART and have access to the Kingdom of GOD and all its RIGHTEOUSNESS...

I know when i fall its due to lazyness, or excuses or complaining, and lacking faith in the word of GOD which is in-excusable.

Read what i have posted here http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/77116-theosis-true-porpouse-human-life.html.
There is answer on every question,just many won't accept the truth.

 

[Cobus]

My question to you - which man was justified, and at which point was he justified?

Nick the Bible ha the answer.... When God wash your sins AWAY.... Jesus was manifest to take our sins AWAY and to put HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS IN US...

Here is the three verses that explain all.... 1 John 1...
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
This is the LIFE WE WILL LIVE AFTER GOD HAS COMPLETED THE PROCESS....

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Please note here that there are those that have ellowship and those that do not have fellowship...

1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
Look sone write to others that they mau have also fellowship and their joy also may be full... There is NO JOY in sin.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Oh So inportant to know this.... THERE IS NO DARKNESS IN GOD.... NONE!!!! Those that have fellowsip with God is IN GOD John 17....

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Confirmed that the ones in HIM also has NO DARKNESS, and neither WALK IN DARKNESS (SIN) They do NOT, the others do though... THey have not felowship in Light and they have no JOY FULFILLED. (Only the Holy SPirit can do that.. only the LIGHT WITH NO DARKNESS CAN DO THAT...

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
This is when we are JUSTIFIED... SANCTIFIED and PURIFIED.... when we are WASHED ONCE WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS.... Right here is where WE CROSS OVER... WHERE THE OLD DIE AND THE NEW IS BORN OF GOD...RIGHT HERE.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
And this is NOT for the fellowship people.... This WE is the ones that does not have JOY FULFILL, THEY ARE NOT WASHED and they do not have fellowship YET.....

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Remember the FELLOWSHIP people have done this... Thaey are WASHED and CLEANSED or the will have NO FELLOWSHIP WITH LIGHT....But is the INVITED non light people do come and confess their sins, God will: 1. FORGIVE and 2. Cleanse them from ALL unrighteousness... WOW, the WASH OF THE BLOOD.... INTO FELLOWSHIP AND LIGHT..OUT F DARKNESS INTO LIGHT....

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Now they are the same with the LIGHT.... but they were once sinners, and cannot clain holiness and perfection as a thing they ALWAYS had.... Look SINNED is in the PAST.... Sin is not more part of them, they have: 1. Washed in blood.... 2. Given fellowship with light, and no more in darkness.... 3. Forgiven and JOY FULFILLED... WOW!!!!

 

[RickShafer]

It is the height of absurdity to think you don't come short of the righteousness of God.
Do you think because you keep a few commandments that you are righteous?
- That is nonsense.
- - The law is the schoolmaster to lead us to Jesus.
To think by doing certain things that you are equal to Him is absurd.
To think by not doing other things you are equal to Him is equally absurd.
- - -There are sins of commission, and sins of omission.
To reckon that you would either do or not do them at all times is absurd to the highest degree.
The only grace is in His blood; (which is faith in Him alone, not your good works).

It's Called Sanctification, - (His work in us).

 

[Cobus]

No Rick again you do not understand, I cannot sin, I cannot keep law and I cannot be righteous.... RIck, I AM DEAD.... N dead man can sin, be righteous, or keep or break any law.... A dead man is DEAD Rick, Cobus is DEAD Rick... Cobus died on the cross with Jesus Rick...

The NEW Cobus is not Cobus the old sinner, the NEW COBUS is in the EXACT image of Jesus... AS HOLY, AS RIGHTEOUS, AS PERFECT and AS GODLY and glorious.... The New creature in Christ, is ALL NEW.. the old is GONE Rick, nt being sanctified....the OLD IS GONE.... THe new Cobus is not being sanctified... HE IS GLORIFIED WITH CHRIST JESUS.... Glorification on this earth is the FINAL STEP GOD SEALS A CHILD OF GOD. With the GLORY OF JESUS AS MAN...

 

[RickShafer]

Notice the bleatings of a lost sheep.
Listen Cobus, you are alive in your sin.
You currently live in the temporal body that is dying; (it is not dead yet).
So, if you are saved, you are being sanctified.
No one is glorified in this life. (Comes after death).

- Listen man! You are currently being sanctified or you are none of His. (period, end of paragraph)

- -I'm telling you, if you don't get it straight you are going to end up in a straitjacket - (I'm not kidding)

 

[Cobus]

Rick look where the GLORY is given.... RIGHT HERE ON EARTH.... And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Rick a SAINT is NOT ONE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST YET... Look in Ephesians 4.... For the perfecting of the saints, for the EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST...Rick a saint is ALREADY SANCTIFIED.... But he still need to be GLORIFIED....

That means he still NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT AS INFILLING AND INDWELLING AND ALL CONSUMING SPIRIT.... A Saint is a person that HAS NO HEART... God took AWAY the STONY HEART... THERE IS NO HEART NOW... then GOD PUTS HIS HEART AND HIS SPIRIT IN THE SAINT, TO BE ONE WITH GOD, AS JESUS WAS ONE WITH HIM.

And when God does GLORIFY THE SAINT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS...
God makes the life of the SAINT a GDLY LIFE.... Titus says it best.... IN THIS PRESENT WORLD.... Titus 2:12...

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Just how Godly is this life? Well 1 John says it best.... Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Ricky, God says, God does.... If HE saves a sinner, He saves him PERFECTLY... His salvation is to His Glory and His righteousness... God did not call ANY prson to unrighteousness, but to HOLINESS IN HIM...

 

[RickShafer]

Glory is NOT given to mankind here on this earth by God. (It is given to mankind by another - the prince of the power of the air)
You're all mixed up.
Please read I Cor.1:30.
Jesus IS our holiness!

 

[Cobus]

Amen RICK AT LAST... AT LAST you see that we are GLORIFIED WITH CHRIST.... IN Christ.... NOt in yourself, but it HAPPENS HERE RICK.... BORN OF GOD IS HERE NOT IN AFTER LIFE..... The moment you re BORN OF GOD, CHRIST JESUS IS IMPLANTED IN YOU AND YOU IN HIM... AND SIN IS GONE!!!! GONE RICK GONE FOREVER....


You qouted this verse but also take the NEXT verse.....
NO flesh should glory in HIS presene, but HIS GLORY is the PERFECT LIFE HERE ON EARTH... Flesh would not GOD to GOD, but GOD COMES IN THE FLESH....


Read this and SEE what God says Rick not me not you ....GOD says this.... But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

First red point....
Ricky this righteousness is GOD'S righteousness.... NOT ours, Rick this holy life is GOD IN US, not us in us... GOD IN US...
WE are not even here, let alone think we can be holy.... HE IS THE HOLY IN US... and HE SHARES WITH NO ONE...
God is a JEALOUS GOD.... HE SHARE NOT!!!!

Second red point...
To GLORY IN THE LORD, is not to GLORY IN OURSELVES...God's Glory is the glory in our mortal bodies, NOT OURS... WE GLory in HIM and HE IN US... NOT we in us and HE IN HIM... Jesus said the Glory thou hast given ME... I have given them... Jesus gave us the Glory God gave Jesus.... and that is the HOLY LIFE JESUS LIVES IN OUR FLESH... And our Spirit and soul is GONE TO GOD... You are GONE and are now GLORY IN GOD... and HE IS THE GLORY IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, TO LIVE AS HE DOES....HOLY!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No Rick again you do not understand, I cannot sin, I cannot keep law and I cannot be righteous.... RIck, I AM DEAD.... N dead man can sin, be righteous, or keep or break any law.... A dead man is DEAD Rick, Cobus is DEAD Rick... Cobus died on the cross with Jesus Rick...

The NEW Cobus is not Cobus the old sinner, the NEW COBUS is in the EXACT image of Jesus... AS HOLY, AS RIGHTEOUS, AS PERFECT and AS GODLY and glorious.... The New creature in Christ, is ALL NEW.. the old is GONE Rick, nt being sanctified....the OLD IS GONE.... THe new Cobus is not being sanctified... HE IS GLORIFIED WITH CHRIST JESUS.... Glorification on this earth is the FINAL STEP GOD SEALS A CHILD OF GOD. With the GLORY OF JESUS AS MAN...

You are dead to the law. Your flesh is obviously still alive, and is not the EXACT image of Jesus. Only your spirit is. Your flesh is the image of Adam.