Perfection, Holyness, Purity.
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T
To here, you make your point. I do not agree with your point, but I understand it.
You do not recognize that you are speaking to a man of God? You do recognize his position, even though you disagree with it? You do not recognize that other men of God have seen the scriptures this way?
On this point, I believe that everyone in the immediate conversation agrees…. No perfection of "perfect Christian obedience" (whatever that might mean) that is less than "perfect as my heavenly Father is perfect".
It is amazing that you believe you have this kind of perfection now, some of your imperfections (and mine) are recorded in this thread…..
You do not recognize that you are speaking to a man of God? You do recognize his position, even though you disagree with it? You do not recognize that other men of God have seen the scriptures this way?
On this point, I believe that everyone in the immediate conversation agrees…. No perfection of "perfect Christian obedience" (whatever that might mean) that is less than "perfect as my heavenly Father is perfect".
It is amazing that you believe you have this kind of perfection now, some of your imperfections (and mine) are recorded in this thread…..
T
I have heard this kind of claim before and it is "out there" - not from God. The Holy Spirit enables us to understand the word of God and the Holy Spirit speaks to MEN (plural) not A MAN singular. The message of the gospel was entrusted to APOSTLES, (MEN, PLURAL). The apostles themselves founded many churches, but even churches not founded by them were Christian, not heretical, if they had the SAME apostolic message as their sister churches. They had to consult with those who were trained by the apostles to see if they got the message straight. If so, then they were accepted as a true Christian church. Those churches who isolated themselves and claimed "God has spoken to us (and only us)" were known as heretics. In every age, the message is given to men, not just a man. There has always been a remnant - "seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal" - even though the prophet perceives himself to be standing alone. It is to your credit, Cobus, that your theological systems coincide on many points with others who came before you. The reasoning and method of interpretation you employ is identifiably not originally yours - this is a good thing. I am happy that you agree with Wesley on some key points. If someone agreed with no one, they would surely be a heretic. If you do not recognize that men influence your systematic grasp of theology, that is a sad thing. The Holy Spirit has spoken to US, not just to YOU.
Saints have not received the Spirit of GOD YET... WOW is it so difficult to understand? I wrote in a common English and even my kids understand me...
I have NEVER said I am perfect at this stage... Perfection/holiness as god is holy and God's SEED comes when God gives His Spirit as an ALL CONSUMING, ONLY LIVE SPIRIT and ONLY FORCE OF GOD IN OUR FLESH...
Get this my dear friends, and let SATAN get behind us NOW!!!!!!
I am NOT PERFECT YET.... I am saint.... LEAD OUT OF ALL SIN BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.... I do not have the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD IN ME... I AM NOT PERFECT, because NOT ONE MAN IS PERFECT WITHOUT THE SEED OF GOD IN HIM. God HIMSELF is the SEED... I do NOT HAVE GOD IN ME YET!!!!! I AM NOT PERFECT!!!!
A SAINT IS NOT PERFECT YET, HE ONLY STOPPED SINNING!!! Come on go read Eph 4 and then you will understand... Hagios means just PURE AS GOD IS PURE... Just cleansed to a PURENESS OF GOD.... Not perfect YET...Eph 4 says I am still to be EDIFIED to the BODY, BEFORE I AM A PERFECT MAN.....
Now get this,,, The GIFT of the HOLY Spirit comes WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT... and that gift NO ONE CAN OBTAIN, OR DETERMINE... God says the Holy Spirit gives as HE WANTS...
So Isdaniel can a SAINT know all knowledge... Actually every believer can... I know the WHOLE Truth PERFECTLY! Why? I had FAITH when I asked God for knowledge... God says if one lacks knowledge, ASK WITH BELIEVING AND GOD WILL GIVE UNCONDITIONALLY....
So here is the thing, how can you ask God for Knowledge, if I throw it on this site EVERYDAY, and you reject it? You are the people that rekect God's knowledge, and that is why you fall.... I love you but I cannot condone your false teachings...
God will not and I CANNOT. If I do I have to forsake what God TRUSTED ME WITH... Do you know that I am on trial here? Not one of you but me... If I am not obedient in this SMALL TALK here on CC, how Can God send me to a church, village or city as an Evangelist? If he cannot trust me to REMAIN IN THRUTH, HERE ON LITTLE CC, how can HE TRUST ME IN HIS CHURCH?
Tdrew, get this now.... I AM NOT IN CHRIST YET.... I am set apart and made free from sin, false teaching and lies of Satan, but thatwas the WORD of God, the TRUTH and the knowledge of Truth, I still NEED THE FILLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT...
That is when the SEED of GOD comes in me, and I ENTER INTO HIM.... Gone for GOOD! Here is the thing... If GOD does not want to talk to any of you, HE WILL NOT! If you want God's Truth to make you free you have to KNOW the Truth... and HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN SHOW YOU THE TRUTH... I know the TRUTH, that is why I am SAINT.... I believed God's Word and belief is KNOWLEDGE... I know God and He knows me, THANK GOD I AM ALSO ELECT!!!!
I am a SAINT and god will make me whatever HE WANTS... Apostle? I do not know. Pastor? I do not know. Evangelist? I do not know... God does what HE wants, he does not need my permission or council. God does not hold meetings with HIS servants, he appoints them AS HE SEES FIT. The vessel has NO SAY... the CLAY has NO SAY... God is the potter, and from the same lump he makes vessels unto honor,and vessels unto dishonor... If God makes me a vessel unto dishonor, can I become a vessel unto honor? NO!!!!
Please my three friends, do not get confused. You are all called to be SAINTS, and after that God will appoint you as HE WANTS... but we ALL need to get to SAINTSHIP... Read romans 1... CALLED TO BE SAINTS...
Just one GOD-GAURENTEE..... If we are united in Christ, we will be perfectly one with eachother as well... there will be none of this nonsence we do here.... I do NOT want to argue, I made my points PERFECTLY in line with Scripture, you do not want to be perfect and you shall never be if you do not believe God can make you perfect here on earth, so I will STOP right here, I will only nswer questions with Scripture, and I will not give the Bible doctrine as I did,,,, it is just to wonderful for you to belive.. I hope you all can believe the verses I will post to your questions. So from now on I will ask god to answer straight from His Word. I will give no more long essays sharing what is going on with me, but I will reproof your weak doctrines with Scripture straight from the Bible...
I have NEVER said I am perfect at this stage... Perfection/holiness as god is holy and God's SEED comes when God gives His Spirit as an ALL CONSUMING, ONLY LIVE SPIRIT and ONLY FORCE OF GOD IN OUR FLESH...
Get this my dear friends, and let SATAN get behind us NOW!!!!!!
I am NOT PERFECT YET.... I am saint.... LEAD OUT OF ALL SIN BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.... I do not have the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD IN ME... I AM NOT PERFECT, because NOT ONE MAN IS PERFECT WITHOUT THE SEED OF GOD IN HIM. God HIMSELF is the SEED... I do NOT HAVE GOD IN ME YET!!!!! I AM NOT PERFECT!!!!
A SAINT IS NOT PERFECT YET, HE ONLY STOPPED SINNING!!! Come on go read Eph 4 and then you will understand... Hagios means just PURE AS GOD IS PURE... Just cleansed to a PURENESS OF GOD.... Not perfect YET...Eph 4 says I am still to be EDIFIED to the BODY, BEFORE I AM A PERFECT MAN.....
Now get this,,, The GIFT of the HOLY Spirit comes WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT... and that gift NO ONE CAN OBTAIN, OR DETERMINE... God says the Holy Spirit gives as HE WANTS...
So Isdaniel can a SAINT know all knowledge... Actually every believer can... I know the WHOLE Truth PERFECTLY! Why? I had FAITH when I asked God for knowledge... God says if one lacks knowledge, ASK WITH BELIEVING AND GOD WILL GIVE UNCONDITIONALLY....
So here is the thing, how can you ask God for Knowledge, if I throw it on this site EVERYDAY, and you reject it? You are the people that rekect God's knowledge, and that is why you fall.... I love you but I cannot condone your false teachings...
God will not and I CANNOT. If I do I have to forsake what God TRUSTED ME WITH... Do you know that I am on trial here? Not one of you but me... If I am not obedient in this SMALL TALK here on CC, how Can God send me to a church, village or city as an Evangelist? If he cannot trust me to REMAIN IN THRUTH, HERE ON LITTLE CC, how can HE TRUST ME IN HIS CHURCH?
Tdrew, get this now.... I AM NOT IN CHRIST YET.... I am set apart and made free from sin, false teaching and lies of Satan, but thatwas the WORD of God, the TRUTH and the knowledge of Truth, I still NEED THE FILLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT...
That is when the SEED of GOD comes in me, and I ENTER INTO HIM.... Gone for GOOD! Here is the thing... If GOD does not want to talk to any of you, HE WILL NOT! If you want God's Truth to make you free you have to KNOW the Truth... and HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN SHOW YOU THE TRUTH... I know the TRUTH, that is why I am SAINT.... I believed God's Word and belief is KNOWLEDGE... I know God and He knows me, THANK GOD I AM ALSO ELECT!!!!
I am a SAINT and god will make me whatever HE WANTS... Apostle? I do not know. Pastor? I do not know. Evangelist? I do not know... God does what HE wants, he does not need my permission or council. God does not hold meetings with HIS servants, he appoints them AS HE SEES FIT. The vessel has NO SAY... the CLAY has NO SAY... God is the potter, and from the same lump he makes vessels unto honor,and vessels unto dishonor... If God makes me a vessel unto dishonor, can I become a vessel unto honor? NO!!!!
Please my three friends, do not get confused. You are all called to be SAINTS, and after that God will appoint you as HE WANTS... but we ALL need to get to SAINTSHIP... Read romans 1... CALLED TO BE SAINTS...
Just one GOD-GAURENTEE..... If we are united in Christ, we will be perfectly one with eachother as well... there will be none of this nonsence we do here.... I do NOT want to argue, I made my points PERFECTLY in line with Scripture, you do not want to be perfect and you shall never be if you do not believe God can make you perfect here on earth, so I will STOP right here, I will only nswer questions with Scripture, and I will not give the Bible doctrine as I did,,,, it is just to wonderful for you to belive.. I hope you all can believe the verses I will post to your questions. So from now on I will ask god to answer straight from His Word. I will give no more long essays sharing what is going on with me, but I will reproof your weak doctrines with Scripture straight from the Bible...
The Scriptures was for the Apostles FIRST but jesus did not only pray for them... Scripture...
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (the Apostles)
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (for me)
I do believe the Words of the Apostles, it is you guys that have problems to believe it... Jesus did not pray for DOUBTERS AND THE WORLD.. HE PRAYED FOR FAITHFUL AND BELIEVERS.... NOT THE WORLD... the world keeps on sinning...
ALL credit goes to this prayer of Jesus. Cobus have NO CREDIT.. but for me to deny that God did give me the Word on my heart is to deny my LORD! I CANNOT do it.. So if I have to BOAST, I will Boast in the LORD that still writes HIS TRUTH ON THE TRUTH SEEKER's HEART...
Praise God for His Truth that MAKES FREE!!!
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (the Apostles)
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (for me)
I do believe the Words of the Apostles, it is you guys that have problems to believe it... Jesus did not pray for DOUBTERS AND THE WORLD.. HE PRAYED FOR FAITHFUL AND BELIEVERS.... NOT THE WORLD... the world keeps on sinning...
ALL credit goes to this prayer of Jesus. Cobus have NO CREDIT.. but for me to deny that God did give me the Word on my heart is to deny my LORD! I CANNOT do it.. So if I have to BOAST, I will Boast in the LORD that still writes HIS TRUTH ON THE TRUTH SEEKER's HEART...
Praise God for His Truth that MAKES FREE!!!
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T
So. let me repeat this back to see if I have it right -
You believe that you are living in sinless imperfection - without sin, therefore worthy of being called "saint" or "holy one". You are not in Christ, nor are you filled with the Holy Spirit, - yet the Word of God has made you not to sin. You are not in Christ, not part of the body of Christ, yet. But because you believe that you are without sin, you have the hope (not a sure thing, but a probability) that you will one day partake of Christ and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Is that right?
You believe that you are living in sinless imperfection - without sin, therefore worthy of being called "saint" or "holy one". You are not in Christ, nor are you filled with the Holy Spirit, - yet the Word of God has made you not to sin. You are not in Christ, not part of the body of Christ, yet. But because you believe that you are without sin, you have the hope (not a sure thing, but a probability) that you will one day partake of Christ and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Is that right?
Tdrew what makes a man COMPLETE in God? It is the SEED GOD IMPLANTS WHEN THE SOIL IS READY...Jesus prepares the SOIL for the SEED.... That is why NO ONE COME TO THE FATHER BUT BY HIM...And No one comes to Jesus if the FATHER does not draw him...
The best place to show you is this...
God appointed these men for ONE PURPOSE... To perfect the SAINTS...
Tdrew this is God's Word not MINE... So believe with all your heart what you read....
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Note here... God gave these people out in those offices....To do what?...
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
These men are appointed to perfect the saints.... so they can also work for the ministry, so they can also be EDIFIED in the BODY OF CHRSIT, and more....
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
So they can also come in the UNITY OF FAITH, of the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God, UNTO A PERFECT MAN... LOOK they are NOT PERFECT YET.... they atill NEED to be brought to the SAME MEASURE, the SAME STATURE, the SAME FULNESS of Christ JEsus....
My friend do you see that a SAINT is NOT IN CHRISTS BODY YET? Saints needs to be EDIFIED (brought into the Body of Chrsit still) They are NOT EDIFIED YET... They are NOT PERFECT MEN YET... THEY ARE NOT TO THE FULNESS OF CHRSIT JESUS YET.... Only AFTER they are perfected they ARE... To be edified with Christ is the PERFECT MAN.
Please believe this Scripture... PLEASE DO! A saint is not perfect YET!!!! But only a SAINT can be perfected... no sinner can be perfected... the stages is..... SINNER - SAINT -JESUS MAN (perfect man)
That is the ONLY stages the Bible teach, NOTHING LESS and NOTHING MORE... The WHOLE Bible teach...Sinner, God makes Saint, God makes PERFECT MAN..... That is the ONLY Gospel in the Word of God, there are no other....
The best place to show you is this...
God appointed these men for ONE PURPOSE... To perfect the SAINTS...
Tdrew this is God's Word not MINE... So believe with all your heart what you read....
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Note here... God gave these people out in those offices....To do what?...
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
These men are appointed to perfect the saints.... so they can also work for the ministry, so they can also be EDIFIED in the BODY OF CHRSIT, and more....
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
So they can also come in the UNITY OF FAITH, of the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God, UNTO A PERFECT MAN... LOOK they are NOT PERFECT YET.... they atill NEED to be brought to the SAME MEASURE, the SAME STATURE, the SAME FULNESS of Christ JEsus....
My friend do you see that a SAINT is NOT IN CHRISTS BODY YET? Saints needs to be EDIFIED (brought into the Body of Chrsit still) They are NOT EDIFIED YET... They are NOT PERFECT MEN YET... THEY ARE NOT TO THE FULNESS OF CHRSIT JESUS YET.... Only AFTER they are perfected they ARE... To be edified with Christ is the PERFECT MAN.
Please believe this Scripture... PLEASE DO! A saint is not perfect YET!!!! But only a SAINT can be perfected... no sinner can be perfected... the stages is..... SINNER - SAINT -JESUS MAN (perfect man)
That is the ONLY stages the Bible teach, NOTHING LESS and NOTHING MORE... The WHOLE Bible teach...Sinner, God makes Saint, God makes PERFECT MAN..... That is the ONLY Gospel in the Word of God, there are no other....
