Pharisees and arrogance

[Ariel82]

You know, it always perplexes me as to how my mother, who is not a believer, can see my own hypocrisies better than I can sometimes. I can literally be talking about how something is hypocritical and then find myself doing the very thing 5 minutes later! It's really weird isn't it? It leaves me dumbfounded sometimes. Always helps with humility though. No matter how much you grow in humility, He never stops teaching you that you still have a lack of it! I honestly think that none of the other virtues are gained without humility and that with humility, you have the other virtues. It's like...it's impossible to learn more humility and not gain an increase in all others. Humility is like the lynchpin virtue...

Humility is foundational in the understanding that we are NOT God.

We are imperfect in wisdom,in self control, in listening,in understanding God's will for our lives, in sight.

We don't know all the answers and must trust in God and others to fulfill what God asks of us. Many people try and do it alone but God made us to be part of the Body and not solo members.

We learn and grow together.

 

[jaybird88]

Unfortunately the Pharisees were the ones thinking that by their own works and self-righteousness - they were the "chosen ones of God". They thought that by their own self-effort that they were righteous because of the life they lived.

the works , righteousness and the life they lived was bad. Jesus didnt rebuke them for their teachings and beliefs concerning the laws of His Father.
Mt 23 3
so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

they had no works and that was the problem.

 

[mj007]

I am glad you see that you are learning and growing together with PeterJens. It is a great sign of humility in saying that.

And yes we are not God. However, depends on what exactly one means by that. I prefer to think of God in the way of Apple Pie. If God is The Apple Pie, and I am a slice of Apple Pie, then I am not 'the' Apple Pie, but I am Apple Pie.

Just like something you plug into the socket on the wall is an electrical item, it has electricity go through it, but, it is not the electricity.

I don't see God as separate, I see God as being in everything. Therefore one could say, I am God, but I am not God.

God is pervasive · pervading · permeating · omnipresent · ubiquitous · present everywhere · permeative · suffusive · permeant

Humility is foundational in the understanding that we are NOT God.

We are imperfect in wisdom,in self control, in listening,in understanding God's will for our lives, in sight.

We don't know all the answers and must trust in God and others to fulfill what God asks of us. Many people try and do it alone but God made us to be part of the Body and not solo members.

We learn and grow together.

 

[PeterJens]

LMGTFY
And they are and remain heresy.
Ya think?
I don't go around self proclaiming my wisdom, sinlessness, righteousness and humility as you do. That's your sad job.
Christ is all that to me, and for me, and He is all I need.

Well my friend, you do not like the idea about the heart and needing to open
up to Christ?

And you do not like testimony or proclaiming what Christ is doing in believers.
Odd because this is exactly what Paul did.

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

You claim so much authority yet cannot witness to the work God has done in your
life. That is not being light or salt.

At least now I know where you stand. God bless you.

 

[PeterJens]

The new covenany taught by Jesus is the fulfillment of the civenabr given to Abraham, the promise given to Adam and eve.,,,ut is different than the covenant of laws given to Moses and the rebellious people of Israel after they rejected direct communication with God.

Could it be that you might be wrong in some of your assertations?

Have you changed or admited you were once wrong? Have you learned and grown?

I know I have from talking to people in this forum.

You present it as if learning and growing is something everyone else does and don't admit to having a need to learn and grow as well.

Does your belief system allow for your very human ability to be wrong about certain doctrines and ways of understanding scriptures or are you always 100% correct?

Ariel - I am wrong, deeply flawed a sinner saved by grace, desiring to understand
my King and His gospel in our hearts.

I put out summaries, or ideas that link things together.
It is then up to others to accept, criticise and respond as they want.
If they stand strong and actually reflect biblical truth, then that is what they are.
Most of our theology has been built in this way.

 

[PeterJens]

Unless Christ speaks to your heart
you have nothing.

The law is the gatekeeper to the Kingdom.

Only love can unlock the gate
to heaven and to the heart.

And the door to the heart
only has a handle on the inside.

Jesus is the gatekeeper, not the law. Only His love can unlock the gates of heaven....ma,y types of love in the world but salvation is found in Christ Jesus and His work on the cross.

Jesus is the law.
Jesus is love.
Jesus is salvation.
The cross is forgiveness of sins.
The cross exists because of love.

These are word pictures that summarizes realities, that show a
framework, of priorities, of foundations, of truths.

They only exist in the right context, but they help to identify
heresy, failure, sin, falsehood, things that will destroy us.

 

[PeterJens]

Unless
Christ speaks to
your heart
you have nothing

Jesus came for us to be real.
He came to heal and set the prisoner free.

So why not today actually listen and believe the cross means
He loves you, in the biggest and most glorious way.

Open your heart to Him and let him cleanse and heal you, bring
light and life to your lonely and barren existance. Amen

 

[Ariel82]

I am glad you see that you are learning and growing together with PeterJens. It is a great sign of humility in saying that.

And yes we are not God. However, depends on what exactly one means by that. I prefer to think of God in the way of Apple Pie. If God is The Apple Pie, and I am a slice of Apple Pie, then I am not 'the' Apple Pie, but I am Apple Pie.

Just like something you plug into the socket on the wall is an electrical item, it has electricity go through it, but, it is not the electricity.

I don't see God as separate, I see God as being in everything. Therefore one could say, I am God, but I am not God.

God is pervasive · pervading · permeating · omnipresent · ubiquitous · present everywhere · permeative · suffusive · permeant

Sounds like the Hindu version of "God" or the concept called Atman. (note: I am note sure what you believe,just that your words remind me of discussions I have had with my Hindu friends, obviously we disagree)

I do believe that God gives life to every living thing. That he gives us the breath of life, our souls. I have found scriptures to support that belief. However, I believe their is a difference between saying that "God is a part of us" versus saying "we make up parts of God"

The first shows that God is separate from us and would exist even if we did not. The second implies that God would not be whole if we did not exist.

I believe God is Triune: father, son and holy spirit, but we can discuss the nature of God and what the Bible says and what we each believe in another thread.

 

[Ariel82]

Unless
Christ speaks to
your heart
you have nothing

Jesus came for us to be real.
He came to heal and set the prisoner free.

So why not today actually listen and believe the cross means
He loves you, in the biggest and most glorious way.

Open your heart to Him and let him cleanse and heal you, bring
light and life to your lonely and barren existance. Amen

I actually really agree with this point. The others...not so much, but this one...without the Holy Spirit, we see the world through eyes blinded to God's truth,

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus is the law.
Jesus is love.
Jesus is salvation.
The cross is forgiveness of sins.
The cross exists because of love.

These are word pictures that summarizes realities, that show a
framework, of priorities, of foundations, of truths.

They only exist in the right context, but they help to identify
heresy, failure, sin, falsehood, things that will destroy us.

I see the point you are trying to make, but it's still very easily misunderstood. Jesus is more than the law, more than love and more than just our salvation.

I guess the difficulty you might want to address is" how is the law love?"

 

[PeterJens]

I actually really agree with this point. The others...not so much, but this one...without the Holy Spirit, we see the world through eyes blinded to God's truth,

The great thing about summaries they are just that. Some they help others it just
passes them by. Like the Jesus loves you bumper sticker. Not a fan.

On this subject, the grace crowd could go with
Christ takes you to heaven on one confession.

 

[Ariel82]

Well my friend, you do not like the idea about the heart and needing to open
up to Christ?

And you do not like testimony or proclaiming what Christ is doing in believers.
Odd because this is exactly what Paul did.

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

You claim so much authority yet cannot witness to the work God has done in your
life. That is not being light or salt.

At least now I know where you stand. God bless you.

Good that you do ,because all I see is what
he stands against: any boasting that isn't rooted in Christ and His finished work.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well my friend, you do not like the idea about the heart and needing to open
up to Christ?

(I snipped off the unnecessary slanderous remarks to assert I'm lost)

See how you bear false witness?

This is what you do, and what you look for, an opportunity to twist the words and beliefs of others, call them lost, show contempt and exalt yourself.

We've all heard many times of your self-exaltation, and how humble, loving, spiritual and self-righteous you are by your achievements. We get it.

 

[Magenta]

Sounds like the Hindu version of "God" or the concept called Atman. (note: I am note sure what you believe,just that your words remind me of discussions I have had with my Hindu friends, obviously we disagree)

It is new age pantheism, which may include monism, which is unbiblical because it denies the distinction between God and creation. Scripture's consistent denunciation of idolatry is a solid rebuttal of pantheism, also.

 

[PeterJens]

(I snipped off the unnecessary slanderous remarks to assert I'm lost)

See how you bear false witness?

This is what you do, and what you look for, an opportunity to twist the words and beliefs of others, call them lost, show contempt and exalt yourself.

We've all heard many times of your self-exaltation, and how humble, loving, spiritual and self-righteous you are by your achievements. We get it.

You are a full frontal type of a guy. You called my post
"the OP is diablos type behavior"

so I know where you pitch your tent.

Sorry you feel this way. Obviously rubbed you up the wrong way.
Unfortunately how can I be nice to you if you decide you are an enemy?

God bless you, may you find love in Christ

 

[PeterJens]

Good that you do ,because all I see is what
he stands against: any boasting that isn't rooted in Christ and His finished work.

Ariel - Are you saying p4t is all about rooting out boasting, as his ministry?

I wonder at people with such negative ministries, and not ministries of encouragement
and wisdom which are gifts of the Holy Spirit. Maybe I missed some biblical passages.

 

[Grace777x70]

If you truly believed this you would spend your time in other threads. The fact you post here shows nothing but that you are a hypocrite, giving people this advice but not following it,
.this showing you don't truly believe what you preach about leaving it in God's hands and not interacting with said person.

If God told me to leave a person alone, I would not be going and posting on their threads,

I would discuss whatever topic in another thread and just lay out the truth there. Thus giving people the truth but still obeying God and not interacting with people He said to avoid..,

I am not interacting with them which does not equate to never posting on a thread concerning a subject.

I am posting on a thread what I believe to be true about a subject - if that is being a hypocrite to you - so be it. That's like calling Jesus a hypocrite because He spoke the gospel when there were Pharisees there who were opposed to His message.

You are missing the "whole not interacting principle" and trying to equate that for never saying anything in someone's thread about the subject. They are not the same but maybe to you - they are. - so be it. To me - they are not.

But you are free to believe what you want too and to do as you fell led in your own personal interactions with people. I will continue to post what I believe about the Lord's love and grace for us in any thread. All is well...

 

[preacher4truth]

You are a full frontal type of a guy. You called my post
"the OP is diablos type behavior"

so I know where you pitch your tent.

Sorry you feel this way. Obviously rubbed you up the wrong way.
Unfortunately how can I be nice to you if you decide you are an enemy?

God bless you, may you find love in Christ

Wait, how can you be nice to an enemy, which is a command of Christ, yet...you're humble, self-righteous, sinless, loving and always pleasing to Christ, but aren't obeying His command? lolzzzz...

And for the record, I'm in Christ. I didn't find His love, His love found me as He is the one who seeks and saves the lost, not vice versa.

I pray His love may find you and deliver you from your self-righteousness and open your eyes and heart to how wicked and evil as the rest of mankind (You then being evil, Matthew 7:11 & Ephesians 2:3) you are and how much you need Him.

 

[NayborBear]

It seems "hell fire, and brimstone" preachers, have their place, as there seems to have never been too much a lack of them. To me, these "types", for lack of a better definition, are geared more for those who are unbelievers. Their hook, is in the fact that all of us, believers and not, fall short, missing the mark. And, they are very good at ripping and tearing at these flaws in every one of us! Heck, I'd imagine they, in their double-mindedness, could get Jesus Christ Himself, to yield to their "alter-call!"

Their down side, is they are generally, fairly shallow rooted, save for the true unbeliever, turning oh so many away from the faith! One may even call these "types" One trick ponies. Meaning they are great! For the 1 trick, that they perform! They oft times cannot, nor will not, venture much beyond, there, relegating, everything, not within their sphere, is either of the devil,anit-christ, or darkness! And, granted, in some cases they are correct! A little bit of probing with questions, from believers, and yes, God, can, and does speak through unbelievers as well, usually, exposes the "self-righteousness" that the enemy, and in more cases then not, God the Father Himself, has them "treed", in their lofty high towers!

Faith, Repentance, Baptism! That's about IT! They cannot seem to get one past the cross of Christ! and, let's face it. How can they, as they themselves have only peered towards the Father, only to get judged "unworthy" to proceed. Well?....Another lap around the mountain, eh?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

the works , righteousness and the life they lived was bad. Jesus didnt rebuke them for their teachings and beliefs concerning the laws of His Father.
Mt 23 3
so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

they had no works and that was the problem.

Well! We all wish THIS one would speak more often after that, don't we??!
And you captured that in very few words!
I could learn from you.

And it covers the whole scope of what we were talking about and a lot of what ariel was saying.
Paul covered it too, now that I think about it - lest after instructing others, I myself be disqualified (for saying it, but not DOING it).

Even we who know Him can be our own little microcosm of hiding from the truth because our deeds are evil.