Predestination Makes Void Personal Responsibility

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U

Ukorin

Guest
#101
#101
p_rehbein said:
Oh, I see........when you and others post "generalization" comments, that's ok? But if I do it, then I am REQUIRED to provide hard evidence? Is that about right?

........goodness.........sigh...........

Your entire comment was a "generalization."

So, tell ya what, you go first!

oh, and...............

QUOTE: Your proposal that OSAS historically produces carnal Christians is fictional. END QUOTE.

Your assertion that OSAS doesn't is fictional............(and, FYI, this thread concerns Predestination, not OSAS)
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I believe in a solid grace gospel, and understand predestination and eternal security,
Yet I also hold to the pursuit of holiness, personal evangelism, active charity, and general purity as our calling, and strive to fulfill that calling with my whole heart.
So from my testimony, I can refute your proposal.
But I am not alone. This is the testimony of most in my home church, and many others that I know.

I have seen carnal Christians coming from every denomination. (Charismatics seem to have the most drop-outs).
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#102
#102
p_rehbein said:
I've found that every ex-Calvinist that I meet were so very sad to have been brainwashed into believing the theology of Calvin.

(see, if we are going to make unsubstantiated "generalizations" anyone can play that game)
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But mine is actually true, not just made up to counter.
These are people that I know and love, and the story of their walk in Christ.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#103
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
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#103
the Apostle James was well versed in satire........

James 5:12) Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#104
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
6,548
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#104
QUOTE: But mine is actually true, not just made up to counter.
These are people that I know and love, and the story of their walk in Christ
END QUOTED..........

Have any proof to back up this assertion?

See, MINE are ACTUALLY TRUE as well...............
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#105
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
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#105
QUOTED:

OSAS)I believe in a solid grace gospel, and understand predestination and eternal security,
Yet I also hold to the pursuit of holiness, personal evangelism, active charity, and general purity as our calling, and strive to fulfill that calling with my whole heart.
So from my testimony, I can refute your proposal.
But I am not alone. This is the testimony of most in my home church, and many others that I know.

I have seen carnal Christians coming from every denomination. (Charismatics seem to have the most drop-outs).

END QUOTED........

I believe in the Name of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.....I understand "foreknowing," "predestination," and "eternal security." I believe in God first in all things. I believe we are called to walk Christ-like and to strive to fulfill the will of God who has purposed us to do His will.

My personal testimony, and the testimonies of hundreds of others in my Church refute your ideology. I make no "proposal," I speak from understanding of Scripture.

I have seen carnal Christians come from every denomination/non-denominational movement. Those teaching predestination and once saved always saved seem to have the most drop outs...........
 
N

Nick01

Senior Member
#106
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
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#106
p_rehbein said:
the Apostle James was well versed in satire........

James 5:12) Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
Click to expand...
Jesus is the satire King.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

lk18_25a.jpg (from the Brick New Testament)
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#107
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
48
#107
p_rehbein said:
History would beg to differ with that generalization...............
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First , to make a clear statement I am not a calvinist , but i believe in a God of eternity where He lives in eternity in heaven is Holy a place of pure,holiness and only holiness can abound God's purpose is in eternity eternity has no begining and no end but time does wich is where we live even though eternity and time are coexistant at this moment eventually time will end and creation as we know it will cease 'God knows this for He abounds in His place Eternity ,and wills that we learn our place in eternity through His Son (himself for the father and the son are one ) so it is predestined because the Father is already rejoicing with us in the new heavens and earth , but in our own temporal time we must work we must labor , those who are slothful obviously are not being diligent to God we are predestined but to us it is simply His foreknowledge of His outcome , but to me I am already at the right Hand of the Father by my Jesus because i believe with all my heart , and if we believe wholeheartedly then we will show true fruits and be furnished unto all good works , even job had this knowledge and knew God's way and never cursed God instead spoke only of Himself but never against God for He foreseen a better promise He saw a better place and existance because of His relationship to YHWH
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#108
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
48
#108
p_rehbein said:
QUOTED:

OSAS)I believe in a solid grace gospel, and understand predestination and eternal security,
Yet I also hold to the pursuit of holiness, personal evangelism, active charity, and general purity as our calling, and strive to fulfill that calling with my whole heart.
So from my testimony, I can refute your proposal.
But I am not alone. This is the testimony of most in my home church, and many others that I know.

I have seen carnal Christians coming from every denomination. (Charismatics seem to have the most drop-outs).

END QUOTED........

I believe in the Name of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.....I understand "foreknowing," "predestination," and "eternal security." I believe in God first in all things. I believe we are called to walk Christ-like and to strive to fulfill the will of God who has purposed us to do His will.

My personal testimony, and the testimonies of hundreds of others in my Church refute your ideology. I make no "proposal," I speak from understanding of Scripture.

I have seen carnal Christians come from every denomination/non-denominational movement. Those teaching predestination and once saved always saved seem to have the most drop outs...........
Click to expand...
Is that your Church doctrinal statement ?
 
Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
#109
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
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#109
I believe the hot mess is because lack of patience and laxk of personal relationsbip but this is due to carnal living for while the mind is in a carnal state it can only perceive a certain way creating a captivity in their lives by creating limitations and failing points in their ideas and in theyre testimony , this opens doors to fears wich bring about all manner of error that gi es birth to a sinful nature wich is a life abound in constant sin , sin begins every now and then but eventually becomes full manifest .
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#110
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#110
p_rehbein said:
the Apostle James was well versed in satire........

James 5:12) Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
Click to expand...
I hope no one is saying we are not to endure.
Of course, what will we hear at the finish line? ''I knew I could'' or ''thank you Jesus''.
 
A

Atwood

Senior Member
#111
May 1, 2014
4,995
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#111
Ukorin said:
I've found that most members in my home church are ex-arminianists who finally gained security and assurance in their salvation, and have moved on the meat of Scripture.
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Good afternoon, Ukorin,

Salvation by works must be the default pseudo-christian POV of the multitude of professed Christians. So then it is hard to have assurance of salvation. I recall very well my mother thinking that the Sheep vs Goat judgment was the thing that decided eternal destiny (being saved was not my denomination's vocab); & I recall her deriding the song, "When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there," as presumptuous.

I started a new thread on foreknowledge. And I look forward to your comments on it.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#112
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
6,548
113
#112
Originally Posted by p_rehbein
the Apostle James was well versed in satire........

James 5:12) Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.


CROSSNOTE: I hope no one is saying we are not to endure.
Of course, what will we hear at the finish line? ''I knew I could'' or ''thank you Jesus''.


Calvinists see no need "to endure." It's the basis of their theology that they ARE predestined to eternal life.

Free will understands that one must take up their cross daily and strive to live Christ like, and rely upon the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to enable them "to endure."

When Calvinists reach the "finish line..........." I have no idea what will be said by them or Christ............

I will say......praise God!
 
Brother_Don

Brother_Don

Banned
#113
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
89
0
#113
Romans 8:29-31, For whom He did forknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified, them He also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#114
#114
p_rehbein said:
Originally Posted by p_rehbein
the Apostle James was well versed in satire........

James 5:12) Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.


CROSSNOTE: I hope no one is saying we are not to endure.
Of course, what will we hear at the finish line? ''I knew I could'' or ''thank you Jesus''.


Calvinists see no need "to endure." It's the basis of their theology that they ARE predestined to eternal life.

Free will understands that one must take up their cross daily and strive to live Christ like, and rely upon the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to enable them "to endure."

When Calvinists reach the "finish line..........." I have no idea what will be said by them or Christ............

I will say......praise God!
Click to expand...
Can you give a quote where a Calvinist says: "I don't endure", or "I don't take up my cross daily", or "I don't need to try to follow Christ".

You are saying something that is truly ridiculous to anyone who is in Christ, regardless of theological view.

You are saying that, because I believe I have eternal security, that I am automatically going to abuse that privilege.

This doctrine effects internal peace. A Believer does not use this doctrine as an excuse for laziness or sin.

An unbeliever might possibly hear this doctrine, assume they are saved, and use it as an excuse to be lazy and sin, but we know them by their fruit. Assuming that you are saved is not belief on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Brother_Don

Brother_Don

Banned
#115
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
89
0
#115
God predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son
 
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