Prosperity preaching Pastor prosecuted, prisoned
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What I do not get is that God never promised that all believers would be financially wealthy.
On judgement day
Matthew 25:34-36
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
Also
Matthew 6:31
31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
On judgement day
Matthew 25:34-36
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
Also
Matthew 6:31
31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
I do say though that I don't necessarily have a problem with believers who are financially wealthy or have a big house.
The problem I have is what they then do with it.
There is one guy who used to be in our church.
He was part of a group of blokes would meet up. He was very wealthy. And boy did he let us know it and his he spent it.
And it wasn't on the poor and needy. Big house, flash cars and expensive holidays.
In fact there were a couple like that.
I stopped meeting with them. It made me sick to the core.
There is a guy in our church. Also very wealthy.
He had a massive house. So one might look and raise an eyebrow.
The fact is he is a builder/housing developer.
He built the house himself for a fraction of the price.
He felt he was asked by God to do this and that God would use it.
And God did so.
For a while it was used as a base for the soup kitchen service, an outreach to the homeless, drunks etc to feed them.
He does not drive in a flash car.
A gentle, compassionate godly man.
The issue for me is not having wealth it's what you do with it.
Matthew 6:19-21
Lay Up Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
The problem I have is what they then do with it.
There is one guy who used to be in our church.
He was part of a group of blokes would meet up. He was very wealthy. And boy did he let us know it and his he spent it.
And it wasn't on the poor and needy. Big house, flash cars and expensive holidays.
In fact there were a couple like that.
I stopped meeting with them. It made me sick to the core.
There is a guy in our church. Also very wealthy.
He had a massive house. So one might look and raise an eyebrow.
The fact is he is a builder/housing developer.
He built the house himself for a fraction of the price.
He felt he was asked by God to do this and that God would use it.
And God did so.
For a while it was used as a base for the soup kitchen service, an outreach to the homeless, drunks etc to feed them.
He does not drive in a flash car.
A gentle, compassionate godly man.
The issue for me is not having wealth it's what you do with it.
Matthew 6:19-21
Lay Up Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
There's nothing wrong with having riches. The truly poor can't help ppl who are also poor in the same way a rich person can. It is wrong for riches having you. That's why Jesus spoke the way He did about the RYR. He chose his wealth over Jesus. It wasn't that he was rich that was the sin. Solomon was rich beyond measure, and so was Job. He sinned because he chose his riches over the Christ.
Regarding that particular couple from the OP, there are numerous ways used to siphon money into developing countries but so much of it never reaches the people it is meant to help. There is a lot of guilt being heaped on the heads of decent people.
Christians can be very susceptible to that kind of persuasion and there are those who exploit it. We have sent billions to "developing nations" but very little changes. Has Bob Geldof manged to feed the world yet? There is so much corruption.
Obviously that congregation was taken in.
Having said that I don't want to get too judgemental about all the prosperity preachers, they do have to answer to God. Who am I to say God hasn't blessed some people for reasons I don't know. I don't know what each one does with their money.
I think we should take notice of this though, Jesus says in Revelation 3
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds,that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
We can't all be lavishly wealthy obviously. If The Lord made all Christians rich he would have a kingdom full of people who just there for the money!
Christians can be very susceptible to that kind of persuasion and there are those who exploit it. We have sent billions to "developing nations" but very little changes. Has Bob Geldof manged to feed the world yet? There is so much corruption.
Obviously that congregation was taken in.
Having said that I don't want to get too judgemental about all the prosperity preachers, they do have to answer to God. Who am I to say God hasn't blessed some people for reasons I don't know. I don't know what each one does with their money.
I think we should take notice of this though, Jesus says in Revelation 3
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds,that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
We can't all be lavishly wealthy obviously. If The Lord made all Christians rich he would have a kingdom full of people who just there for the money!
Last edited:
Threads like this get people all angry and sick against other Christians. I agree with you that we don't know what each person is doing with their money and to speculate is not wise. Your example of the man who used his big house to minister to the homeless is a good example. From the outside people probably wouldn't know what he was really using his big house for. But how many good Christians judged him for what he owned because it looked wrong?
Imo I see it to be a poor use of our time to look at what others have and get angry over it. God is able to deal with those people in His own time. It is already a difficult thing for us humans to not be jealous or angry at the way other people live and behave. It takes a discipline to stay away from judging the hearts and lives of others. Not many have that discipline and actually eagerly jump in to condemn and denounce others for what is seen on the outside of their lives.
As Christians we don't have to openly endorse or support these ministries that seem to be ridiculous since we have no real way of knowing for sure what they are doing. But we do know the Lord gives us the freedom to give or not to give. But open condemnation and guess-timations about people are not ours to make IMO. We just do not know the whole story of each person so as to make a complete and honest judgment for or against.
I can't help but laugh at the posting of the elderly Billy Graham near his "acceptable" modest looking log cabin. So that is "acceptable" in our opinion but a larger house is not? Yes., the large estates on sprawling properties do vex us but should we indulge our vexations? Or should we let God be God and deal with His other children on His own without our help?
Because what if something is going on with those other Christians who we have no knowledge of? What if God called them to do what they are doing and we decided to openly condemn them with the world? Just something to think about.
So does the fact that John MacArthur makes over $1 Million a year in just church salary make the calvies here puke, or do they give him a pass because he got it honestly and not by fleecing his flock.
MacArthur makes far too much money for a Pastor himself, so spare us all the calvie better than thou selective outrage.
MacArthur makes far too much money for a Pastor himself, so spare us all the calvie better than thou selective outrage.
I have no problem with paid Pastors. Its hard to devote oneself to the word, the congregants, visiting the sick, if one is bi-vocational. But prosperity preachers preach you sow a seed to get a harvest. That's investing, not freely giving. If you give $ only to look for a four-fold harvest, you've sowed, not out of the goodness of your heart, but looking for a return. You've invested your $, not given it.
First, you're lying breaking the 9th commandment. OK? He makes around 250k from the church. That's about 1.5% of the churches net. Not quite fleecing the sheep now is it?
MacArthur's done more for the cause of Christ than 1000 of you or most would ever even attempt, while you sit and slander him with false accusations. This is not the first thread you've lied about this man of God.
He's had a tremendous impact on the hispanic community, bringing them out of Roman Catholicism to the truth of Christ.
But what is really going on here is your hatred for a brother, if you even consider him or "calvies" brothers in the first place. Better check yourself out in 1 John on that hate of brothers thing.
MacArthur's done more for the cause of Christ than 1000 of you or most would ever even attempt, while you sit and slander him with false accusations. This is not the first thread you've lied about this man of God.
He's had a tremendous impact on the hispanic community, bringing them out of Roman Catholicism to the truth of Christ.
But what is really going on here is your hatred for a brother, if you even consider him or "calvies" brothers in the first place. Better check yourself out in 1 John on that hate of brothers thing.
Last edited: