Question about salvation

[Ariel82]

nope you are mistaken. I see myself an idiot expecting logic from the illogical.

you I see as someone who thinks he has the power to forgive others instead of giving all glory to God. who twists scripture to so that he can feel more compassionate and better than God. who would comfort people in their sins, instead of lovingly giving them God's Truth.

 

[Ariel82]

Is it not God who JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY? This cannot possibly be the "saved" correct?

see more illogical rantings.....God doesn't JUSTIFY the UNGODLY. He cleanses them and makes them Holy, but I wonder again at my sanity for even trying to converse....

Faith is given then you diligently add to faith and one of the fruits of walking with the Spirit is godliness.....

2 Peter 1

[h=3][/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

 

[justamazed]

nope you are mistaken. I see myself an idiot expecting logic from the illogical.

you I see as someone who thinks he has the power to forgive others instead of giving all glory to God. who twists scripture to so that he can feel more compassionate and better than God. who would comfort people in their sins, instead of lovingly giving them God's Truth.

I just don't understand why people refuse the truth to the point of complete confusion. You've never forgiven anyone? I don't twist scripture. But out of this book shows the treasures of the heart. So when you speak of wrath and fear knowing your fate, I choose to speak of mercy and forgiveness knowing the same fate.

I will trust in my Lord as well knowing that regardless of what this world may do to me, that Christ made peace by the blood of His cross.

 

[justamazed]

see more illogical rantings.....God doesn't JUSTIFY the UNGODLY. He cleanses them and makes them Holy, but I wonder again at my sanity for even trying to converse....

Faith is given then you diligently add to faith and one of the fruits of walking with the Spirit is godliness.....

2 Peter 1

[h=3][/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

Please understand I'm not trying to do this, I'm compelled to.... WAKE UP OH ISRAEL!

Romans 4:4-5

4*Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5*But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now I guess you'll tell me that not all people have faith.

 

[Tintin]

I love God's Word. I want everything to do with God's Truth and to walk in his Will. I don't appreciate false teachers leading young ones away from biblical Truth. The sad thing is you (sinless) and Skinski are those very teachers I'm speaking against, not God's Word, which is Truth.

Tintin, is carnal, and hates God's word. He wants nothing to do with the truth. He would rather just not have to even hear it or see it.

 

[sinless]

We sin everyday but if we are in Christ Jesus we just have to pray for forgiveness.

If you sin everyday you are NOT in Christ. Those that ''repent'' day after day after day, are not truly repentant at all, they just want fire insurance

 

[sinless]

I love God's Word. I want everything to do with God's Truth and to walk in his Will. I don't appreciate false teachers leading young ones away from biblical Truth. The sad thing is you (sinless) and Skinski are those very teachers I'm speaking against, not God's Word, which is Truth.

You mean when we say obey Jesus? This is want you mean by ''leading young one away from truth''

You have exposed yourself Tintin

 

[sinless]

Good news about salvation ! We cannot lose our salvation. Jesus says in John 10:27-28 that nothing can snatch us from His hands. In Romans chapter 8 Paul says that nothing can separate us from His love. In Ephesians chapter 1:13-14, Paul says we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Not one of these scriptures has anything to do with not loosing salvation

People that teach that a person can lose their salvation aren't grounded in God's word. Yes, we can and do sin. That's why God gave us 1 John 1:9. When we sin we are to confess(agree with God) and then repent of our sin. There are many more scriptures about this topic. First John is a great epistle concerning salvation.

To repent is to forsake your sin. If you are truly repentant you will not continue to sin

The reformers believed in what is referred to as the perserverance of the saints.

The reformers taught an Augustinian, gnostic false gospel.

 

[stelly]

I know that the bible declare that theres no condemnation for those that are in christ, we all do mistakes but doesnt mean we sin beside if u read in the book of Arts Cornilius was not saved by his good work but the name of Jesus. if u are a real christain never be sin contions, our sin were lead on Jesus now what sin are you talking about?

 

[Tintin]

No. Obeying Jesus and his teachings are top priorities but you're twisting his words. Christ's righteousness covers us from God's wrath at our sin, while the Holy Spirit works in our hearts to make us more and more like Christ - but it's an ongoing process which will only be completed come the New Heaven and the New Earth.

You mean when we say obey Jesus? This is want you mean by ''leading young one away from truth''

You have exposed yourself Tintin

 

[hattiebod]

Christ's righteousness covers us from God's wrath at our sin, while the Holy Spirit works in our hearts to make us more and more like Christ - but it's an ongoing process which will only be completed come the New Heaven and the New Earth.
Thanks TinTin, nicely put.
I have read all through SOOoooOOOooo many threads all coming back to this 'bone of contention' and I do not understand why so many (mostly) men of God have to argue!! its so simple? We are sinners, we are saved and yes, we are washed clean but...we do keep sinning...we are not sinless when we accept Christ. However, we are convicted by the Holy Spirit and we turn, repent and endeavour through the power of the Holy Spirit, not to repeat our sins. We are a work in progress...I know i shall now be 'attacked' by reams of Scripture. Please, don't. I read the Bible too. The bottom line is, Christ Crucified. If we were meant to suddenly to have the ability to be sinless the minute we accepted Christ, there would be Scriptures to support this? but it is the contrary...we GROW, we RUN THE RACE. We are but rotten filthy rags....Lets run together. God Bless. <><

 

[ANIOHEVTORAH]

You're right, this person has no business talking about the word period. Peter sinned when he denied Messiah 3 times. But Yeshua(Jesus) restored him back. If it was true that everytime we sin we lose our salvation, then we would all be lost. Than that means what He did on the cross for us was weak and had no power. We know that is a lie. I'm sorry this guy brought you to tears, but be encouraged, you are safe in the strength of Almighty YAH(GOD).

 

[sinless]

No. Obeying Jesus and his teachings are top priorities but you're twisting his words. Christ's righteousness covers us from God's wrath at our sin.

Show one scripture that says that the blood of Christ or His righteousness covers our sins

Many define grace to suggest it blinds God to His Word or your sins. How absurd, grace wasn’t given to make God more like us but rather to empower us to be more like Him. If grace isnt teaching you to deny ungodliness and wordly lust, and to live soberly, righteously and godly. Then it is not God's grace, it is not biblical grace, it is not the grace that bring salvation.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that bring salvation has appeared to all men
12 teaching us that denying ungodliness and wordly lust, we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world

 

[sinless]

If we truly love God our thoughts won't be "How close to sin can I get" but "How far away from sin can I get."

And if someone has told you that sining is inevitable or unavoidable then RUN as fast and as far from that person as you can!

 

[Ariel82]

HOW does God justify the ungodly? by giving them faith in WHO? .....

Romans 4

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

justamazed, you do not know my heart. do not pretend to know my thoughts or how I look upon the world.

 

[Cobus]

No. Obeying Jesus and his teachings are top priorities but you're twisting his words. Christ's righteousness covers us from God's wrath at our sin, while the Holy Spirit works in our hearts to make us more and more like Christ - but it's an ongoing process which will only be completed come the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Please show us SCRIPTURE Tin-tin... Not the noise of a tincan... There is NO Scripture that says we will only be perfect or the process completed when Christ returns. Yes that is when we get our spiritual BODY, but it is not then when we are made perfect in SPIRT! that was done to Paul, and James and John and Jesus when they were on earth. The WHOLE town of Samaria in Acts 8 save Simon the bullduster...

Again the teachings of IMPERFECTION and sin IS OK, IS NOT OK!!!! Every sinner that die a sinner will remain DEAD TO GOD! Every sinner that DIE IN CHRIST will recieve a NEW LIFE RIGHT HERE ON EARTH... and that is NO PROCESS, it is a ONCE OFF BAPTISM...

Tintin, here is the Gospel in the shortest version in the Bible... It is ONE SENTENCE...It is complete and all encompassing of God's salvation.....
Romans 1:1 to 7.

People please note this, and PRAY GOD to REVEAL this to you... This is deep but BEAUTHIFUL AND STRONG IN GOD'S POWER.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now note... Paul was called to be an apostle... Seperated AWAY FROM SIN AND EVIL, to preach the Gospel of God, and not be hypocratical when He says... I SAY THIS TO YOU BRETHREN THAT YOU SINNETH NOT...Etc.
Note Paul recieved GRACE, Apostleship, and OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH.... Even obeying MAtthew 5:48...
Paul (GOD) adress YOU, yes YOU AND ME, HERE AS WELL...We are all Called of Jesus Christ, CALLED TO BE SAINTS...
A Saint is a person that sinneth NOT!

AND NOW... GRACE to you and PEACE, from FATHER AND SON.... Please do not take this lightly.... If God send you grace... AND PEACE... that peace is unrecieved when you sin.... Peace IN CHRIST, is a life without SIN! God gaurentees this!

 

[Ariel82]

see more illogical rantings.....God doesn't JUSTIFY the UNGODLY. He cleanses them and makes them Holy, but I wonder again at my sanity for even trying to converse....

Faith is given then you diligently add to faith and one of the fruits of walking with the Spirit is godliness.....

2 Peter 1

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

ok you got me. I misspoke.

I should have said if God justifies them they will not remain ungodly because He would give them Faith in which they would diligently add to that faith virtue, knowledge, self control, perseverance unto godliness.

If that does NOT refer to the "saved" then whom would it refer to?

Do you truly believe all people have faith in GOD? do all people have faith in Jesus Christ and His redemptive work on the cross?

if so you truly believe that all people have a saving faith, then you haven't been talking to any atheist, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or secular person.

If you truly believe all people are saved, why do you bother trying to change the views of people who do not agree with you?

won't they be saved no matter what?

IS it because some part of you knows that what you believe (that all mankind no matter if they believe in Jesus or not) is a lie?

I've meet universalist who claim that if God really throw people in Hell, in eternal fire. then He is not a Good and Just God and they would not worship Him. Are you among them?

If so then you think you are better and more just than God and I won't waste my time.

 

[Ariel82]

Perseverance of the saints is NOT a false Gospel. It says that God will keep us and help us overcome this world.

It is found throughout the Bible.

Romans 8

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[SUP][b][/SUP] with groanings which cannot be uttered. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

who would teach that its ok to sin? that people don't need to repent and learn to get farther and farther away from sin?

 

[justamazed]

ok you got me. I misspoke.

I should have said if God justifies them they will not remain ungodly because He would give them Faith in which they would diligently add to that faith virtue, knowledge, self control, perseverance unto godliness.

If that does NOT refer to the "saved" then whom would it refer to?

Do you truly believe all people have faith in GOD? do all people have faith in Jesus Christ and His redemptive work on the cross?

if so you truly believe that all people have a saving faith, then you haven't been talking to any atheist, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or secular person.

If you truly believe all people are saved, why do you bother trying to change the views of people who do not agree with you?

won't they be saved no matter what?

IS it because some part of you knows that what you believe (that all mankind no matter if they believe in Jesus or not) is a lie?

I've meet universalist who claim that if God really throw people in Hell, in eternal fire. then He is not a Good and Just God and they would not worship Him. Are you among them?

If so then you think you are better and more just than God and I won't waste my time.

I do what I do because I love you and want to warn the people. I hate it here... This world can be SO MUCH BETTER but we hold on to social structures and things that divide one another. Now let us take some of the people you posted.

The "atheist, buddhist, hinduist, muslim, the secular person" and even the "christian" are only seperated by "HOW" something appears. The bible says that death FREES us from sin. In short look at it like someone who has to give a speech in front of a large audience. This person is very nervous until someone says "just picture them all naked!"

That is how we must picture everyone. I see us all as dead! I KNOW no one can argue that they won't die. And in the grave there is no atheist, muslim, buddhist, hinduist, secular person, christian, jew or gentile. We all are alike in death so it is to that end look towards.

Now faith, does EVERYMAN have it?? YES!!

Romans 12:3-4

3*For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4*For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

We all are one! And if we realize this our lives would be so much better.

All we do is kill one another through our differences never realizing that we can end suffering on earth!

But we love money more. Jesus came to heal yes? But we love money so like our health and everything else, it's profitable NOT to heal.

Before I continue, I ask you to simply look at this 10 minute video and be honest with yourself, all prejudice aside. I HAVE to believe we can do this!



[video=youtube;LeLAce9L5nk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeLAce9L5nk&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

 

[Ariel82]

I'm sorry justamazed, I don't have time to play your games. If you want to discuss how you want to create a One world were all religions work in harmony even though they are enemies to God. Or how you want to twist and think all people have DIED IN CHRIST and not see how the GOSPEL is not about Death but LIFE and Spiritual Rebirth in Christ. Instead if you want to teach about the world and the things of the world, a world which will be destroyed. then that is your choice.

You should be polite enough to create your own thread and those who wish to converse with you on the topic can choose to.

I only bother to reply because it is ShyforHim's thread. This will be my last reply to you on this thread.

yes we can work together to make this world a better place, but to do it banking on the innate "goodness" of mankind is foolhardy. It is what Communist and Socialist the world over have tried. It doesn't work, because mankind who have not been born again in the Spirit of God are selfish and greedy and mean.

To apply verses talking about the Saints to unregenerate souls is a disservice and a corruption of God's words.

You see the world as DEAD. but I see those who are in Christ as ALIVE even after this body of flesh dies, and perhaps that is why we see the world so differently?

For you see GOD is the God of the LIVING not the dead and that is why you are greatly mistaken..........

Hi ShyforHim, if you are still reading, these Bible verses are for you Since we should always allow the God's words to guide us to His Truth.

Mark 12:26-27

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]27 [/SUP]He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”

Galatians 5

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[SUP][c][/SUP] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 10
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, [SUP]5 [/SUP]casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.