question about the souls already dead

[john832]

Luke 23:39-43 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Christ was simply saying here that He was telling the malefactor that day that he would be with Christ in paradise in the future. The comma (punctuation was added as late as the 1100's AD) was put in the wrong place. It should read as such...

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

In fact, the Diaglott has it as such...

Luk 23:43 And said to him the Jesus: Indeed I say to thee to-day, with me thou shalt be in the Paradise.

No one goes to heaven...

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

Christ comes back here...

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

To distribute rewards...

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

The rewards are offices of rulership and teaching in the Kingdom of God...

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And this occurs at the beginning of the Millenium...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There is no one in heaven presently except the God and the angels, and we never go there, God comes here.

 

[jimmydiggs]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-15

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]13 [/SUP]But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring(lead away) with him.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Anhiliationism isn't biblical.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Everybody dead except Jesus Christ is waiting for the day of resurrection.

David is not ascended
Ac 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Man does not have immortal soul
Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

When a man die, his spirit goes back to God, and the body perishes. Soul is there only when we have spirit and body.
Ec 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Jb 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Jb 14:9 [Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
Jb 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where [is] he?
Jb 14:11 [As] the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
Jb 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Jb 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Jb 14:14 If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

The only difference is for Jesus Christ, whom God raised on the third day. That was his appointed time to raise, to become the "firstborn from the dead" .it was for our hope in eternal life.


It is God who raised Jesus Christ
Ga 1:1 . Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
Ac 2:24 Whom God hath raised up,
Ac 10:40 Him God raised up the third day,

God gave back the spirit of Jesus Christ and his body did not see corruption as prophesied.

It's really convenient sometimes to fight against what scripture says. You're doing a great job of not submitting to scripture.

 

[john832]

Anhiliationism isn't biblical.

What does death mean?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

G2288
θάνατος
thanatos
than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Your comment is not Biblical.

 

[john832]

It's really convenient sometimes to fight against what scripture says. You're doing a great job of not submitting to scripture.

Your exegesis leaves much to be desired.

 

[Sanashankar]

It's really convenient sometimes to fight against what scripture says. You're doing a great job of not submitting to scripture.

quoting the verses from the scripture and telling that i'm not submitting to the scripture. i really didn't understand. am i reading bhagavathgitha?? the cover says "holy bible". im confused with ur post.

 

[jimmydiggs]

What does death mean?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

G2288
θάνατος
thanatos
than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Your comment is not Biblical.

It is not wise to man handle scripture. I advise you to let the spirit handle it, but alas that is why you reject truth.

 

[jimmydiggs]

quoting the verses from the scripture and telling that i'm not submitting to the scripture. i really didn't understand. am i reading bhagavathgitha?? the cover says "holy bible". im confused with ur post.

Anyone can copy and paste a verse. Understanding it, and submitting to what it says rather than what one wishes it said, are another matter.

 

[Sanashankar]

Anyone can copy and paste a verse. Understanding it, and submitting to what it says rather than what one wishes it said, are another matter.

ok then u explain it to me...let me see where i went wrong.

Acts 2: 34- i say the scripture is telling david is not ascended to heaven.

Ac 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Gn 3:22-Man does not have immortal soul because he did not eat fruit from the tree of life
Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

man raisethnot until the appointed time set by God
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ec 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Jb 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Jb 14:9 [Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
Jb 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where [is] he?
Jb 14:11 [As] the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
Jb 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Jb 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Jb 14:14 If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.


It is God who raised Jesus Christ
Ga 1:1 . Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
Ac 2:24 Whom God hath raised up,
Ac 10:40 Him God raised up the third day,

 

[john832]

ok then u explain it to me...let me see where i went wrong.

I noticed that there were no scriptures quoted, just opinion. The facts support the truth, not baseless opinion.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I noticed that there were no scriptures quoted, just opinion. The facts support the truth, not baseless opinion.

Why should I give you a pearl necklace to wipe your bum with?

 

[jimmydiggs]

ok then u explain it to me...let me see where i went wrong.

Acts 2: 34- i say the scripture is telling david is not ascended to heaven.

Ac 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Gn 3:22-Man does not have immortal soul because he did not eat fruit from the tree of life
Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

man raisethnot until the appointed time set by God
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ec 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Jb 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Jb 14:9 [Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
Jb 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where [is] he?
Jb 14:11 [As] the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
Jb 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Jb 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Jb 14:14 If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.


It is God who raised Jesus Christ
Ga 1:1 . Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
Ac 2:24 Whom God hath raised up,
Ac 10:40 Him God raised up the third day,

Have you ever tried letting scripture speak for itself?

 

[Sanashankar]

Have you ever tried letting scripture speak for itself?

I dont want to fight. If u can explain it will be good. or else just leave it...our understanding doesn't match...god bless u

 

[nathan3]

[size=+1]To: Sanashankar [/size]
, I am not adding to what Jimmydiggs said.. I'm saying my own thing separate from him.. I have no clue what he wrote.


I just want to comment on the bible verse you quoted.

The bible talks about how the flesh body, is no more. But the soul your self, the Bible teaches leaves the body .


Acts 2:34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, `The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit Thou on My right hand,"

David's physical body is not ascended into the heavens, but only his soul and spirit. David said this also in Psalm 110; "The Lord said unto my Lord, "Sit Thou at My right hand, Until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool." It is written in the Old Teatament, and fulfilled in the New Testament.

Psalm 110:2 "The Lord shall send the rod of Thy strength out of Zion: Rule Thou in the midst of Thine enemies." And He still does to this day. If you are a child of God, then your enemies are His enemies.

Acts 2:35 "Until I make Thy foes Thy footstool.' "

Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus Whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."

Both "Lord", the servant of the living God; and "Christ" the anointed one, the one placed in charge.

..............


Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:-"

This is the documentation that the "Tree of Life" is Jesus Christ. The price that had to be paid first was Jesus Christ's death on the cross, then after the shedding of His blood, all mankind can take freely of Him and have eternal life. Only by the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, and His living as a man, then His sacrifice on the cross could eternal life be offered to man.

A mortal soul means, one that will not over come when its time " for the Great White Throne Judgment " at the very end. ( Revelation 20:11-15 ) Paul teaches how man has a mortal soul meaning; liable to die in the Greek, and through that tree of life, Christ, their soul/self , becomes immortal through Christ ( 1st Corinthians 15: 54-55 ) But that does not mean, that a mans soul stays in the ground or " sleeps' . No, Paul made clear, that all return to The Heavenly Father after Death , when they put on that incorruptible body, this happens after death immediately ( Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 ; 2 Corinthians 5:8 ; Luke 23:39-43 ; 2 Corinthians 5:10-11 so on )

The flesh body, does not know anything after its dead its dead. Back to dirt . But the person, returns to God. Their soul. As we just read, it does not need the status of immortal soul to make it to heaven, nor does it stay in the ground as we just read in 2 Corinthians 5:10. Also Remember the rich man ? Do you know were Satan is Christ says in Revelation 12: 9 ?

Judgment day is reserved for certain time. But; no soul ends Unless, God chooses to end it -> ( Matthew 10:28 ).

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

You see here, the dust is just that, corruption , as Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 15; its gone. It's just dirt. And the spirit returns to God who gave it. Absent from the body is present from the Lord.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

But the flesh body returns to dust. Everyone gos through that. But it does Not say, that the soul is dirt or dust...The soul/Spirit/you, return to God.


Job 14:12 "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."



The "man" spoken of here is "mortal man" The flesh body. Job is saying that as far as flesh man is concerned, when he dies you will never see that person in the flesh again, for he shall never return to that body. He will never live again in the flesh body. Solomon stated in Ecclesiastes 9:4 that a live dog is better and stronger than a dead lion. Once the flesh is dead it becomes useless . This has nothing to do with your spiritual body ( 1 Cor 15 ). Job has just stated the smallness of man in a flesh body.. But his statement does not have to do with the soul/spirit That the Bible clearly states returns to God.


Job 14:13 "O that Thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that Thou wouldest keep me secret until Thy wrath be past, that Thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!"



Job is begging God that if there is a set time that He has for Job's life, Job wants to know how long that time is for. Don't keep that secret from me.



Job 14:14 "If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come."



Job has used a parallel between himself and a soldier that is standing watch. The soldier that has the watch from midnight to four in the morning knows the time of the watch and he knows what to expect.

Job knows that his life has an appointed time ( to die ), and he knows also that only God knows how long that watch time is for. Job is telling God that he will wait patiently until God brings the end to his time of watch in his corruptible body ( flesh ). This is not saying that Job is in any army, but using it as a comparison to his time of living here on earth. Job is telling God that no matter how long the wait, I will serve the Lord. You can still see Job's hope in this verse....

These verse has nothing to do soul-sleep or something of this nature. It's just not the subject.



Job 14:15 "Thou shalt call, and I will answer Thee: Thou wilt have a desire to the work of Thine hands."



Job of course is the "work of Thine hands". Job is ready for God to call for him, and when that call comes, Job will give answer for his actions and words done in the flesh.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; )

Naturally, its God who raised Christ Physical body also, transfigured, ( Matthew 17:2-4 ).

But as we read above, this is not the case with every ones body, Like for us, our body returns to dust, the dirt, and we put on the incorruptible/spiritual angelic body, as Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15 .

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

We have that incorruptible body to then stand before the Judgement seat of Christ ( 2 Corinthians 5:10 )

 

[nathan3]

A word about "sleep" .

John 11:11-14



11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

They thought Christ was speaking of Lazarus's taking a rest and sleeping. But Christ spoke of Lazarus's being dead.

14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

In this way, is the word sleep used often in the Bible. It is a saying, or figure of speech. Every language has these sayings.


It does not mean, that peoples souls are literally sleeping. But that people, have just died and return to the Heavenly Father.

Christ is saying here, Lazarus is dead. And that He will bring him back from the Father.


This saying is old, and we used by the Israelites for a long time -
1 Kings 2:10-12


10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. ( means he died. Not that he is literally asleep in the ground or somewhere ).

11 And the days that David reigned over Israel were forty years: seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.

12 Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I dont want to fight. If u can explain it will be good. or else just leave it...our understanding doesn't match...god bless u

Your blessing comes from a forked tongue.

 

[nathan3]

Your blessing comes from a forked tongue.

Can we be civil here ? All she did was ask a question .

 

[jimmydiggs]

Can we be civil here ? All she did was ask a question .

I suppose if I said to the devil, that I do not wish to have his blessing, you would then tell me I should not be so bigoted and ought to be more tolerant of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles.

Is that correct?

As per her question, which does not appear to be genuine, if she would let scripture speak for itself she would not need a human to explain it to her, but rather the spirit would give it to her. Instead, she, like so many on these forums have choisen to ram prefered ideas into scripture where they do not belong.

 

[nathan3]

I suppose if I said to the devil, that I do not wish to have his blessing, you would then tell me I should not be so bigoted and ought to be more tolerant of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles.

Is that correct?

As per her question, which does not appear to be genuine, if she would let scripture speak for itself she would not need a human to explain it to her, but rather the spirit would give it to her. Instead, she, like so many on these forums have choisen to ram prefered ideas into scripture where they do not belong.

Your calling her a devil ? Give me a break. Your being angry and bitter for no good reason. Regardless of how you think she is acting, its not our place to be attacking and judging people. When your to the point your calling people devil. thats when we need to calm down and not talk to the person your angry with.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Your calling her a devil ?

No. I was giving you a scenario.

Give me a break. Your being angry and bitter for no good reason.

Regardless of how you think she is acting, its not our place to be attacking and judging people.

When your to the point your calling people devil.

I did not call her the devil.

thats when we need to calm down and not talk to the person your angry with.

Thank you mommy.