Questions about the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts

[onlinebuddy]

Luke 12:50 Jesus said he has a baptism to undergo. Ok how can he have a baptism to undergo when he was baptised in water? the baptism he is talking about is death on the cross, which is why we say "we died unto him"

What the Greek word "baptizo" (to immerse) means depends on the context. At times the Greek noun "Baptisma" (immersion) is used. In many verses, the word, "water" is clearly used.

I agree with you that here (Luke 12:50) the word "baptism" is not talking about water baptism. I am aware that Jesus was baptized in water earlier, and also in the Holy Spirit. So this could not be water baptism. Here the noun "baptisma" refers to immersiion, and not water baptism.
Jesus is drawing a parallel between water baptism and his death. In water baptism one is immersed for a while and then is raised up. During his baptism of suffering, he would be immersed in suffering and not in water. He would stay immersed for a while and then be raised up from the dead.

However, I believe that the following verses talk about immersion in water:
Acts 2
38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Here the Greek verb "baptizo" is clearly referring to water baptism


1Pet 3
20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently36 in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience41 toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Here the Greek noun "baptisma" refers to immersion. What kind of immersion? v 20 mentiones "water," and v21 also mentions the word "water"

Acts 8
36As they went along the road they came to some water ; and the eunuch said, "Look ! Water ! What prevents me from being baptized ?"
37[And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
38And he ordered the chariot to stop ; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Here the Greek verb "baptizo" is used twice. What kind of immersion was this? It's clear. Both, v36 and v38 mention the word "water."

Acts 8
47"Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
Again the Greek verb "baptizo" is used to indicate immersion. But what type of immersion? In v. 47, the word "water" is mentioned.

Acts 19
1It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
2He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed ?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
3And he said, "Into what then were you baptized ?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
7There were in all about twelve men.

Here Paul came across some men who were water baptized, but they did not even know that there was a Holy Spirit. He later found out that they received John's baptism, which was just a baptism of repentance. He then baptized them in the name of Jesus. How did he baptize them in the name of Jesus? Put two and two together, and you will know that is was with water.

Let me clarify my understanding further: Some believers say that water baptism is John's baptism, and baptism in the name of Jesus is not done by water. If this was true, then Paul would immediately have recognized that since they were baptized with water, it was John's baptism. But since both baptisms, John's and Jesus', were done with water, Paul had to seek clarifications.
Now one might say, "but he baptized them by laying of hands." That's not true! The laying of hands and the Holy Spirit baptism came after the water baptism. They are also mentioned in separate verses.

Yes, he initially enquired if they had received the Holy Spirit. When they answered in the negative, he immediately knew that it was John's water baptism, since the baptism of John did not involve the Holy Spirit and does not save. This means that the baptism in the name of Jesus involves the Holy Spirit, and saves.

By the above verses, we can infer that the other incidences of immersion (Lydia, Jailer, etc) were water immersion as well.

These are my thoughts. As I was studying what you wrote, one verse led to another. Pls let me know what you think.

 

[xino]

@onlinebuddy
thanks for looking into this. And being humble

What the Greek word "baptizo" (to immerse) means depends on the context. At times the Greek noun "Baptisma" (immersion) is used. In many verses, the word, "water" is clearly used.

Sometimes when someone is baptised in water, water WILL be mentioned. But when it is spiritual baptism, water will not be used.

However, I believe that the following verses talk about immersion in water:
Acts 2
38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Here the Greek verb "baptizo" is clearly referring to water baptism

no it isn't, you just made that up.
It is talking about immersed in Jesus name. Very clear and simple.

1Pet 3
20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently36 in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience41 toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Here the Greek noun "baptisma" refers to immersion. What kind of immersion? v 20 mentiones "water," and v21 also mentions the word "water"

1 Peter 3:20 talks about disobedient were killed in the flood. But 8 people survived through water. It is funny how water killed millions and water saved 8 people. But Peter said this water is a symbol NOT of the washing of dirt (which water baptism is) but of a pledge. The pledge is when you pray, repent and confess.
Also you changed the word, it clearly says -"21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"-. Not symbolizes water baptism. It says symbolizes immersion.
what does conscience/pledge means?
consciences plural
An inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior
he had a guilty conscience about his desires
pledges plural
A solemn promise or undertaking
the conference ended with a joint pledge to limit pollution



And yes Philip did baptise the Etopian. But read this
7[And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
What does Romans 10:9 say?
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Again with Peter...he said they can be baptised in water because they are already saved through the pledge.

He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed ?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
3And he said, "Into what then were you baptized ?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
7There were in all about twelve men.

so what does it say? they did not receive the Holy spirit because they never heard of it. They had John's Baptism.
And they were baptised in Jesus Christ.
Now ask yourself this question.
what is the difference between baptised in Jesus and having John's Baptism?

Let me clarify my understanding further: Some believers say that water baptism is John's baptism, and baptism in the name of Jesus is not done by water. If this was true, then Paul would immediately have recognized that since they were baptized with water, it was John's baptism. But since both baptisms, John's and Jesus', were done with water, Paul had to seek clarifications.
Now one might say, "but he baptized them by laying of hands." That's not true! The laying of hands and the Holy Spirit baptism came after the water baptism. They are also mentioned in separate verses.

sorry doesn't make sense to me!
if John's Baptism is of water and Jesus of Prayer. (version 1)
if John's Baptism is of prayer and Jesus of Water (version 2)
if John's Baptism is of prayer and Jesus of Prayer (version 3)

like it or not...Paul would still not know. Because Jesus baptise us with Holy Spirit.
Paul gave them the gift of the Holy Spirit. Which is one of the 8 gifts, they had prophecy and tongues.


are you done?
on my next post I will post my own understanding.

 

[onlinebuddy]

are you done?
on my next post I will post my own understanding.

No my friend, I'm not done. I have other things to say. First, I need to read your post again and then respond. Some things you said made sense to me, and others did not. I will respond later. At times, I feel like both of us are at different wavelengths. Therefore our thoughts do not match. I would not try to prove you wrong because I do not know if I qualify to do so. However, I will be straightforward with what I believe.

So we agree that Luke 12:50 does not involve water. We also agree that Acts 8:36, Acts 8:47 and Acts 19:1 involve (or at least mention) water.The issue is not whether water saves. Water cannot save! The debate is whether water baptism is required for salvation or not. This is not the topic I had initially started, but it is related. Anyway, Xino, hope to connect with you later sometime. Meanwhile, pls feel free to write your next post. I will gladly read it and reflect upon it.

 

[xino]

ok now to explain my understanding of baptism

first of all
*John's Baptism is of repentance, a way to have your sins forgiven. Baptism dates all the way back to Abraham which is used as ceremonial washing
*original word baptised/baptism is baptizo which means to be immersed. You can be baptised into ANYTHING.
*the word -Believe- is used A LOT in Acts.
*you can only receive the holy spirit when you believe not when you go in water (not Holy Spirit Gift, yet)
*Jesus is the only one who can forgive our sins. His blood which is the Lamb of God cleanse our sins. Water cannot do any of those.
*John testified and said his baptism is for repentance but one coming after him will baptise with Holy Spirit and Fire
*John 20:22 Jesus breathed the breath of life onto the disciples and says "receive the Holy Spirit". Meaning they are now alive and have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. (BUT they haven't received the GIFT)
*At the beginning of Acts before Jesus ascended to heaven he told the disciples they will be baptised with the Holy Spirit. Though it is a gift. (Acts 1:5))



shall we begin?



Act 1:15

15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty)

Peter stood with believers numbering to 150

Acts 2
Peter and the disciples were all baptised with Holy Spirit and they received the gift which was speaking in tongues.
But remember Acts 1:4-5

4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

SO what happened in Acts 2? Holy Spirit descended upon them and they received the gift of speaking in tongues BUT they were baptised NOT in water. Holy Spirit baptised them. Like John said...Jesus Christ WILL BAPTISE with Holy Spirit..


Acts 2:38

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

how do you get your sins forgiven? by water or prayer? what do you do if you want your sins to be forgiven? you pray to God! Doing this is a way of repenting and that is how to be baptised in the name of Jesus.


Acts 2:41

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Now remember in Acts 1 the n0 of believers were 150, new people BELIEVED and the number rose to 3k!
Remember at the start of this post with bullet points, I said you should take note of the word "believe". Because Acts uses this word a lot!



People who believe in water baptism love using Acts 2:38 but ALWAYS ignore:
Acts 3:19

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

I ask you again...who cleanses your sins? who forgives your sins? who washes away your sins? Jesus Christ!
Water is what John practised.


Acts 4, Peter and John were arrested and put in Jail!
Acts 4:3-4

They seized Peter and John and, because it was evening, they put them in jail until the next day. 4 But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.

Now remember the previous numbers of the believers, they were 3k. Now that they heard Peter and John were in jail. They -believed- and the number rose from 3k to 5k!!!


Please tell me, if baptised means water, how can the disciples Baptise from 150 people to 3k people!? or baptising 2k people to make 5k in a DAY!?

The bible CLEARLY says they "believed". This word believe means you turn into a Christian!

How does one believe?
Romans 10:9

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

When you declare, it means you believe!



Acts 8 Philip and Ethiopian
Philip was telling the Ethiopian about the Good News.
LATE MANUSCRIPT says this:

Acts 8:37 Some manuscripts include here Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” The eunuch answered, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Now what was the bible saying? the word was BELIEVE. People who listen to the Gospel and BELIEVED were baptised into Jesus Christ.

Philip did baptise the Ethiopian in water. But Ethiopian was not BAPTISED in Jesus Christ. He was baptised in water instead. He ONLY -believed-



Acts 9:17-19 Saul

Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

ok first of all....does water baptism save yes or no? Saul got up and was baptised.
How do I know he was baptised in water or Jesus? bible doesn't say (but we will get to this later)


Acts 10 Cornelius
God showed Peter the vision that he shouldn't be racist and call anything God made unclean. Peter went to Cornelius house and started talking the back story. Then he started preaching the Gospel.
Acts 10:44-46

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.

As you see...when Peter was speaking, they believed his words and Holy Spirit- Gift of tongues came upon them.

Acts 10:47-48

“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

To be honest I can't comment much about 47 because the english Peter used says "their" and I don't get that.
But if you read the english.
It says no one can stop them from being baptised in water. But Peter then asked them to be baptised in Jesus Christ.
Please let us use our brains here, Peter should say
"So he ordered that they be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ."


But when people use Acts 10:47, they IGNORE this passage:
Acts 11:16-17

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with[a] water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

Again Peter confirms John baptised WITH water. But HE will baptise with Holy Spirit!
Acts 1, Jesus said so himself that they will be BAPTISED with the Holy Spirit.

Proof to show that the word Baptised is not water!

So please relate this who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way? to this Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water.



Acts 16:11-15 Lydia!

From Troas we put out to sea and sailed straight for Samothrace, and the next day we went on to Neapolis. 12 From there we traveled to Philippi, a Roman colony and the leading city of that district[a] of Macedonia. And we stayed there several days.

13 On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the river, where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. 14 One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. 15 When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. “If you consider me a believer in the Lord,” she said, “come and stay at my house.” And she persuaded us.

Ok Peter and crew arrived, they were near a river (water) and expected a prayer worship to be near there.
But they met WOMEN ONLY gathering. Peter preached the Gospel. Only Lydia was the only one who understood the teaching.

So she and her HOUSE HOLD were baptised!
What does Household means?
households plural
A house and its occupants regarded as a unit
Household does NOT mean a family. It means people in a house.

Now the question is...where was she Baptised? at the river bank (which is the obvious indication). Bible did not say if she was baptised in Jesus Christ or in water. But she then invited Peter and crew to her house.


But NONE of this makes sense. Ok first of all, Peter and Crew withdrew near a river bank to find A PRAYER PLACE. Meaning a building where people pray! These women were not praying outside near a river, they could be persecuted for all I know.
places plural
A particular position or point in space
Now in the prayer place consisted of WOMEN ONLY. Peter and crew preached the Gospel. ONLY Lydia who trust in God believed, and God opened her heart. Now she and HER Household were baptised. It doesn't say baptised in Jesus Christ or Water...but didn't Peter say everyone should be baptised in Jesus Christ at Acts 3:38!? Therefore Lyndai and the women were all baptised into Jesus Christ.
Remember that household means anyone under a roof and prayer place was a building that consisted of women only. So after the baptism, Lydia invited Peter and Crew to her house.



Acts 16 The JAILER!
Now Peter and crew were sent to Jail. They sang and the foundation of the Jailhouse rocked, causing all chains and gates to be open. The jailer rushed to see what happened and was going to kill himself.
Acts 16:30-31

He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.

What did he say!? BELIEVE in Jesus Christ. What word were you hearing before people were baptised? "believe"
How do you believe? Romans 10:9

read on- same jailer
Acts 16:32-34

Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. 34 The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household.

Ok so Peter started preaching the Gospel to the Jailer in his house
Same hour the Jailer took them to his house to WASH their wounds not CLEAN. Washing the wounds means cleaning it with liquid.
washing meaning=
washed past tense; washed past participle; washes 3rd person singular present; washing present participle
Clean with water and, typically, soap or detergent
SO the Jailer and his household were baptised.
Now get this: the household consists of people and soldiers and doesn't have to be family. Were they baptised in water!? Yes it would make sense since Peter's wounds were washed in the house. But what if the Jailer used a bow filled with water and dipped with cloth?
Again what did Peter address at Acts 2:38? that we should be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ!
SO it is quite obvious the Jailer and household were baptised in Jesus and not water.



Acts 19

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

Now after all you have read above.
Paul said "when you BELIEVED?"
as you know...when you believe you become a Christian. When you believe you get the Holy Spirit inside of you.

They declined and said they did not know what it was. They said the received John's Baptism which is WATER BAPTISM.

Paul then said they need to "believe" in the one coming who is Jesus Christ! Then they were baptised in Jesus Christ. Paul placed their hands (laying of the hand) and they got the Holy Spirit gift- speaking in tongues and prophesying.



Ok now...to end this with a BANG
Acts 22. Saul who is now called Paul was preaching about his history, how he was Saul and got his sight back.
Acts 22:15-16

You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

BINGO!
Prophecy of what Saul would do. So he told him to Get up, and be baptised. But did not mention WATER. Wash your sins away. Like I asked you, does water washes away sin? only blood of Jesus does!
CALLING ON HIS NAME!!!
Call on Jesus name, he will wash away your sins and forgive you!
Water does not do any of these things.



Peace brother. Mind blown!?
now you know the TRUTH about water baptism and baptism. The truth has set you free.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Xino, Thanks for taking the time to post this. There are lots of details. Therefore, I will take some time to study these facts before I get back. Meanwhile, take care and be blessed.

 

[Cobus]

@Cobus,
Just a side note:
I just viewed your profile. Are you saying that you do not wish to be called a "Christian?"
OR
Are you saying that anyone who "continues to sin" is not a Christian, and therefore you (and none of us) are Christians? Just want to know...

I ask this because I do see that you believe in Jesus. However your profile status contradicts your faith...or there must be a deeper meaning to it?

Buddy, I read only the Old King James in english becasue it is exactly like the Afrikaans old translation. That is why our Bibles say the verse differently.
About the Christian thing... The Bible says that the Spirit of God Himself beareth witness with our SPIRIT, that we are the children of God. Not my tyoing nor my words should bear witness .... MY SPIRIT AND GOD'S SPIRIT SHOULD BEAR THE WITNESS that I am a child of God.

I alway say... do not tell me you are a child of God SHOW ME! Or you are a hypocrate and something that makes me nautious. Let me tell MANY people make me nautious... People I used to love spending time togather when I was still very unknowledgeable! Did God not warn us that by a lack of knowledge we will FALL! Yep knowledge of God and His Word makes me see things VERY different than I did before.

I been made holy once in a vision, I know what GODLY PEACE really brings, And that is why I pray God to fill me with His Spirit, and then Buddy THEN He can witness whatever HE WANTS!

I hope you understand. I think a sinner, like me has no case calling himself a Christian, and then do something Satan likes him to do.... God said we are a servant of the master we obey... Who do we obey when we do sin? God? Am I a Christian when i obey Satan to sin? Look here...

Rom 6... Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Obedience unto righteousness... WOW who can do that? PAul did... Rom 1. And so did all Christians! So am I Christian? NOPE! May God have mercy on me and also GIVE ME THE OBEDIENCE to the faith. Rom 1:5.

Buddy the Holy Spirit confess with Holy Spirit gifts... No other way! 1 Cor 12 ... nine gifts...

 

[xino]

if you want more truth

WHAT IS TRUE BAPTISM? THE WATER OR THE WORD! - YouTube <-- watch video

you are saved when you pray, repent and confess.

water is john's baptism

 

[onlinebuddy]

if you want more truth

WHAT IS TRUE BAPTISM? THE WATER OR THE WORD! - YouTube <-- watch video

you are saved when you pray, repent and confess.

water is john's baptism

That was hilarious, especially the guy in the white "We Got Next" T-Shirt who said almost nothing. The guys in the colorful outfits were knowledgeable all right, but I wish they would be less aggressive and listen to the other guys as well. Also, when they speak, a little grace in their speech would do them good. Furthermore, the verses they used were taken out of context. Those were not verses on baptism per se, but references made to baptism or analogies drawn between two topics. Those verses never ruled out water baptism.

Anyway, I'm short of time, but I will definitely respond later. I have yet to read your a/m long post on baptism and your link on "baptism problems," etc. They are coming on too fast (that's OK). It's easy to watch a video, though. So please give me some more time.

All said and done, I do appreciate your efforts and I know that something good will come out of our discussions.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

if you want more truth

WHAT IS TRUE BAPTISM? THE WATER OR THE WORD! - YouTube <-- watch video

you are saved when you pray, repent and confess.

water is john's baptism

What the people were saying in that link was pure garbage

 

[Cobus]

Buddy, may I ask one thing.... Does God baptize people with Holy Spirit today? I think you will answer YES. Then what baptism does God refer to in this verse.... There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[Cobus]

I ask this, what water baptism has EVER put the people in one body?

 

[xino]

What the people were saying in that link was pure garbage

is that so...and what would you say to counteract them?
the usual Acts 2:38 or 1 Peter 3:21?

because water baptism lovers, love using that quote.

water does not save.
regardless of those guys using the bible out of context, they are right because water doesn't save. It is when you pray.

In fact there are more stuff I need to post that questions the water baptism. But I will hold on to it, until OnlineBuddy reads my dissection of all the book of Acts Baptism

 

[onlinebuddy]

is that so...and what would you say to counteract them?
the usual Acts 2:38 or 1 Peter 3:21?

because water baptism lovers, love using that quote.

water does not save.
regardless of those guys using the bible out of context, they are right because water doesn't save. It is when you pray.

In fact there are more stuff I need to post that questions the water baptism. But I will hold on to it, until OnlineBuddy reads my dissection of all the book of Acts Baptism

@Xino and Cobus,
I'm back for a little while. Although I will be online for quite sometime, I am busy with some other work. So I'll try to read and respond in parts. I'm on my own. I am not consulting anyone and I wouldn't allow any church to push their doctrine on me. It's just me and the Bible and God.

About the video, I doubt if those guys truly have the Holy Spirit. They were talking in an ungodly way, calling people names such as "Ham sandwich" and even focusing the camera on women passing by. Xino, I know that your intentions are good. Therefore I am willing to listen to you.

@Cobus, I will answer your recent question. Pls be patient with me. Thanks.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

is that so...and what would you say to counteract them?
the usual Acts 2:38 or 1 Peter 3:21?

because water baptism lovers, love using that quote.

water does not save.
regardless of those guys using the bible out of context, they are right because water doesn't save. It is when you pray.

In fact there are more stuff I need to post that questions the water baptism. But I will hold on to it, until OnlineBuddy reads my dissection of all the book of Acts Baptism

I was referring more to the stuff they were saying toward the end of the video than I was the Baptism. I would caution you about who you choose to listen to. I don't know who those guys were but they definitely didn't seem to have a Christ like attitude.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Buddy, may I ask one thing.... Does God baptize people with Holy Spirit today? I think you will answer YES. Then what baptism does God refer to in this verse.... There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Cobus,
These verses say that there is
one body (i.e. the true Church of believers and not a particular denomination)
one Spirit (Greek: pneuma or Holy Spirit),
one hope (of eternal life),
one Lord (i.e. Jesus),
one faith (in Jesus),
one baptism (greek noun: "baptisma" meaning one immersion)...same greek word is used in 1 Pet 3:21 & Romans 6:4 & Col 2:12

Buddy, may I ask one thing.... Does God baptize people with Holy Spirit today? I think you will answer YES. Then what baptism does God refer to in this verse.... There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

As for your question about whether God baptizes with the Holy Spirit today, my answer is, "I'm not sure." I am yet to meet a person who has the gifts of the Holy Spirit as they had in the Bible. Also, I am yet to meet someone who does the miracles they did in the Bible. I have met many counterfeit people. I have also seen many TV evangelists who try to deceive people and extract money from them.

There are many who claim to have the gift of the word of knowledge, word of wisdom, gift of discerning spirits and the gift of faith. However, there are very few who can prove that they have the gift of miracles, gift of prophecy, gift of healing, gift of tongues and gift of interpretation of tongues.

I ask this, what water baptism has EVER put the people in one body?

The purpose of baptism (as I understand it) is for the forgiveness of sins and not for unity of the body. Now, again, the water does not save you; Christ saves you as a result of your belief and repentance. However, baptism is an act of obedience to God and for public profession of Christ. So, in turn, it does bring in the unity of the body.

@Xino, did not read yr dissection of the book of Acts. I am eager to do so, and will do so soon.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Buddy, I read only the Old King James in english becasue it is exactly like the Afrikaans old translation. That is why our Bibles say the verse differently.

Cobus,
Is this version different from the KJV? If so, is it available online? If so, please give me the link.

 

[onlinebuddy]

I alway say... do not tell me you are a child of God SHOW ME!

Agree

I been made holy once in a vision, I know what GODLY PEACE really brings, And that is why I pray God to fill me with His Spirit, and then Buddy THEN He can witness whatever HE WANTS!
No issues! True!

I hope you understand. I think a sinner, like me has no case calling himself a Christian, and then do something Satan likes him to do.... God said we are a servant of the master we obey... Who do we obey when we do sin? God? Am I a Christian when i obey Satan to sin? Look here...[/COLOR][/B]

Rom 6... Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Obedience unto righteousness... WOW who can do that? PAul did... Rom 1. And so did all Christians! So am I Christian? NOPE! May God have mercy on me and also GIVE ME THE OBEDIENCE to the faith. Rom 1:5.

Buddy the Holy Spirit confess with Holy Spirit gifts... No other way! 1 Cor 12 ... nine gifts...

1 John 5
1And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14And this is the confidence that we have ina him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
Don't the above verses say that we can know that we have eternal life?

Doesn't the word "Christian" indicate that one is a believer of Christ? Off course It's kind of wierd that you say that you are not a Christian. How about calling yourself a believer? You believe, don't you? You have repented, haven't you? The old man, will pop up every now an then. It's upto us to say no! Isn't God your father? Can't you call him "Abba?" I think you are being too hard on yourself. God is calling you His Son, isn't he?

 

[onlinebuddy]

@Cobus

&#8220;The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,&#8221; (Romans 8:16 ESV)

Every person knows within himself whether he is a child of God or not. The Holy Spirit testifies the same. So it does not matter what others see us as. However, we can know that we are God's children.

You could also put your status as "not sure," (if you will) but putting your status as "not a Christian" gives others the message that you are against Christ and against Christians.

 

[xino]

I was referring more to the stuff they were saying toward the end of the video than I was the Baptism. I would caution you about who you choose to listen to. I don't know who those guys were but they definitely didn't seem to have a Christ like attitude.

lolz
ham sandwich.

yes those guys are different. but they know the truth.
and I don't have to listen to them, I found the answer myself.
you can see how I dissected the book of acts baptism all by myself.

if you don't believe them or my words.
have 2 of these.

A HISTORY OF BAPTISM FROM ADAM TO THE END OF TIMES <--click 1
Baptism: A Flood of Confusion | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site <-- click 2

point proven that other churches and people know the truth about baptism, different baptism and baptism water does not save.

70% of the world only follow what many do.
they follow
KJV only
Jesus being a white man
jews are white
water baptism saves
holy spirit is only speaking in tongues
different mixture of kingdom of heaven
sabbath is sunday.

ALL LIES

and the fact about all these things is that, 70% of Christian believers and the world all follow those things! Thinking it's the correct and only way

 

[onlinebuddy]

Quote:
What the Greek word "baptizo" (to immerse) means depends on the context. At times the Greek noun "Baptisma" (immersion) is used. In many verses, the word, "water" is clearly used.
Sometimes when someone is baptised in water, water WILL be mentioned. But when it is spiritual baptism, water will not be used.

The word baptism is synonymous with water baptism. Water baptism is spiritual baptism. If it is not water baptism, it will be clarified in the scriptures that they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. For eg. in Acts 2, the Apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit and not water.

Purpose of water baptism: For the forgiveness of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38)
Purpose of Holy Spirit baptism: To be a witness for Christ (Acts 1:8)

Both measures of the same Holy Spirit are for different purposes. One (Acts 2:38) for Christian living, and the other (Acts 2:4) for the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

The "gift" (singular) of the Holy Spirit is different from the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit.

The gift of the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Holy Spirit given as a gift) is for personal edification and for Christian living. The result of the gift is the 9 fruits of the Holy Spirit. The 9 fruits of the Holy Spirit are available for all Christians depending on their spiritual progress. This gift of the Holy Spirit comes as a result of water baptism.

The 9 "gifts" of the Holy Spirit are for bearing witness of Christ. These gifts are for the edification of others (nonbelievers and the church). The 9 gifts are not given to every Christian. The 9 gifts come as a result of Holy Spirit Baptism. The gifts are given by laying of hands of the Apostles.

I will respond step by step if you don't mind. I haven't reached your dissection of the Book of Acts yet.