Rapture Gap

popeye · Dec 11, 2016

Paul also said we are saved from the wrath that is to come, he also said we are not appointed to wrath.
When the rapture takes place not every eye shall see him, he's come to take his bride as a thief in the night.

Don't know why I'm even posting this as you are set in your belief as I'm set in the truth. You can't see it because to tell the truth your not looking for it. Just the things that support your views.
Been down this road before old news, there's enough evidence to support pre-trib view can someone say that it's also there in scripture no...well lets all be ignorant as we prove once again we don't know scripture

They are followers of some hateful group.

I can just see the absence of joy in them,and the scowls on their faces LOL

popeye · Dec 11, 2016

samuel23 said:

There seems to an idea out there that if we muddy the water enough we can cause a pre-trib rapture to come into existence. There is also a big lie out there that one cannot really tell by reading the bible whether there is a pre-trib rapture or post-trib rapture. The pre-trib rapture is based 100% on the belief that Paul, in the Thess letters, wrote of a different return of Christ then the return Jesus gave the church through the apostles and that it preceded the return that Jesus gave the church through the apostles. You see, the idea that Paul wrote of a different return of Christ then the return Jesus gave the apostles...is not based on any scriptural evidence at all. Simple deductive reasoning tells us that the church before Paul had to be post-trib because that was the only return of Christ they could have been taught. Also, when Paul joined the church he would have accepted the post-trib rapture that the rest of the church was already believing in. When you add to that the fact that Paul described the return of Christ exactly the same as Jesus described His return then it is a slam dunk...no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

...and it is obvious you can not go toe to toe with us,in open debate.

Your broad brush little attacks are so juvenile.

Get off the put downs,the personal attacks,and crack a bible,and lets get it on.

I'm gonna guess,you can not finish a thought without some person shot.

popeye · Dec 11, 2016

samuel23 said:

Oh,really?

What about this little ole RAPTURE,DURING THE GT?

Rev 14
[FONT=&quot]13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Now,uh,what exactly were you saying ????

Your deal is debunked[/FONT]

samuel23 · Dec 11, 2016

Popeye, your opinion about other scriptures supporting the pre-trib rapture are irrelevant since I have clearly presented the truth from scripture and honest deductive reasoning that demonstrates that the New Testament does not, nor has it ever, contained a pre-trib rapture of the church. I feel sorry for you folks for you can't seem to get a grasp on reality here. People keep saying that I must approach the bible from the position that there IS a pre-trib rapture and later the second coming. Why not approach the bible with no position at all and just read and believe what is there without adding to it. If you sincerely want to know if pre-trib is true or false then you must go to the root of the matter, the beginning of the concept, and see if that is sound. Pre-trib comes from the teaching that Paul wrote to the Thess of a different return then Jesus gave the apostles. Really examine this part of the bible and think. The description Paul gave of the return of Christ is the same as the description Jesus gave of His return. Paul never at any time said that the return of Christ He described was pre-trib(people add that). Paul actually wrote that the return he described could not occur until after the advent of the Antichrist which means after the tribulation. Also the church before Paul was post-trib because that was the only return of Christ being taught to the church, so Paul joined a post-trib believing church and accepted it and became post-trib and wrote post-trib to the Thess. Also, the tribulation Jesus described was the time of world wide persecution of Christians...not the wrath of God but the wrath of Satan.

Ahwatukee · Dec 11, 2016

samuel23 said:

Popeye, your opinion about other scriptures supporting the pre-trib rapture are irrelevant since I have clearly presented the truth from scripture and honest deductive reasoning that demonstrates that the New Testament does not, nor has it ever, contained a pre-trib rapture of the church. I feel sorry for you folks for you can't seem to get a grasp on reality here. People keep saying that I must approach the bible from the position that there IS a pre-trib rapture and later the second coming. Why not approach the bible with no position at all and just read and believe what is there without adding to it. If you sincerely want to know if pre-trib is true or false then you must go to the root of the matter, the beginning of the concept, and see if that is sound. Pre-trib comes from the teaching that Paul wrote to the Thess of a different return then Jesus gave the apostles. Really examine this part of the bible and think. The description Paul gave of the return of Christ is the same as the description Jesus gave of His return. Paul never at any time said that the return of Christ He described was pre-trib(people add that). Paul actually wrote that the return he described could not occur until after the advent of the Antichrist which means after the tribulation. Also the church before Paul was post-trib because that was the only return of Christ being taught to the church, so Paul joined a post-trib believing church and accepted it and became post-trib and wrote post-trib to the Thess. Also, the tribulation Jesus described was the time of world wide persecution of Christians...not the wrath of God but the wrath of Satan.

Once again, not one scripture to support your claim. Your proof is "because I said so." Scripture, scripture please!

buddyt · Dec 11, 2016

I'm sorry but I must believe in what is written. I cant find anything written in Gods word that says Rapture. First lets understand we have two bodies. We have a flesh body and we have a spirit body. We do gather back to Christ but this happens at the last Trump the Seventh Trump. 1st Corinthians 15:52 1st Thessalonians 4: 13-17 speaks of this return. To understand verse 17 you have do a little study. The word Air for example Strong's # 109 ARE your breath or Spirit. The word Cloud as Paul uses it he is speaking of a group also found in Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a CLOUD of witnesses let us lay aside every weight and the sin witch doth so easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. We are also reminded in 2nd Thessalonians 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be reveled the son of perdition. This happens at the 6th Trump 6th Seal 6th Trump 6th Vial the number of his name.

Ahwatukee · Dec 11, 2016

Good morning buddyt,

Personally, I don't use the word "rapture" which is derived from the Latin, as I prefer the actual Greek which is the word "Harpazo," which means "catching away, snatching away, force suddenly exercised." Therefore, using the word "Harpazo" translated as "caught up" is definitely in the scriptures as demonstrated below:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be [caught up] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

So in the scriptures above, we have the following details:

* The Lord will descend from heaven

* The dead in Christ will be resurrected first

* Those who are still alive at the time of the resurrection will be changed and caught up with them

* The Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places He prepared for us

The scriptures you mention speaks of his appearing in the atmosphere to gather the dead and the living believers. They say nothing about Christ returning to the earth and remaining. You're just reading that into the scripture. What it actually says is that, we will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then according to John 14:1-3, the Lord will take the whole group back to the Father's house (heaven) to those dwelling places that he prepared for us.

Persuaded · Dec 11, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Nice try, but you dodged the challenge.

Explain how the actions of the rider of the white horse in the first seal is the wrath of God.

Do the same with seals 2,3,4,5,6,7.

Now do the same with the trumps--1,2,3,4,5,6,7.

You are the one who said "the seals and trumps are the wrath of God".
Since you used the plural, I assume you included all seals and all trumps in that statement.

As for the sixth seal-----
THEY refers to the ungodly, the enemies of God. THEY are the ones who proclaim that wrath has come.
Scripture does not say that the wrath of God has come until Rev. 11:16-18

Now if you want to believe "THEY" , go right ahead. I choose to not believe the enemies of God.

Bladerunner · Dec 11, 2016

samuel23 said:

Popeye, your opinion about other scriptures supporting the pre-trib rapture are irrelevant since I have clearly presented the truth from scripture and honest deductive reasoning that demonstrates that the New Testament does not, nor has it ever, contained a pre-trib rapture of the church. I feel sorry for you folks for you can't seem to get a grasp on reality here. People keep saying that I must approach the bible from the position that there IS a pre-trib rapture and later the second coming. Why not approach the bible with no position at all and just read and believe what is there without adding to it. If you sincerely want to know if pre-trib is true or false then you must go to the root of the matter, the beginning of the concept, and see if that is sound. Pre-trib comes from the teaching that Paul wrote to the Thess of a different return then Jesus gave the apostles. Really examine this part of the bible and think. The description Paul gave of the return of Christ is the same as the description Jesus gave of His return. Paul never at any time said that the return of Christ He described was pre-trib(people add that). Paul actually wrote that the return he described could not occur until after the advent of the Antichrist which means after the tribulation. Also the church before Paul was post-trib because that was the only return of Christ being taught to the church, so Paul joined a post-trib believing church and accepted it and became post-trib and wrote post-trib to the Thess. Also, the tribulation Jesus described was the time of world wide persecution of Christians...not the wrath of God but the wrath of Satan.

I would like to know if we are in a post-trib situation,,,where (timeline) are we at...... just started,,, middle,,,or at the end of things....

Also what do you use to determine that OR???

Do you need to determine when Jesus Christ will return since it is post -trib.

Ahwatukee · Dec 11, 2016

Simple, the rider on the white horse is representing the antichrist and I don't have to explain all of the chaos that he brings to the inhabitants of the earth. By worshiping him and receiving his mark, the inhabitants of the earth will doom themselves to judgment and the lake of fire, because they will choose the antichrist over Christ, worshipping him and receiving his mark. Besides this, Jesus is the One who will be opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets and bowl judgments, which means he is responsible for everything that takes place as a result of each plague of wrath. I have listed these plagues of wrath out on several other posts, but I will post them again for yours and the benefit of the others who will be reading this post.

2nd Seal:
Rider on the red horse - Takes peace from the earth so that men kill one another. He's given a large sword, which means that his campaign to take peace from the earth is world-wide. Fatalities unknown.

3rd Seal:
Rider on the black horse - Famine, as represented by the scales to precisely measure food in times of shortage and the mention of a small amount of wheat and barley for a days wages, which means, a lot of money for a lit bit of food.

4th Seal:
Rider on the pale green horse being death, followed closely by Hades - They are given authority over a fourth of the earth to kill by war, famine, plague and wild beasts of the earth. Consequently, based on the current population of 7 billion a fourth would equal approx. 1.7 billion fatalities.

5Th Seal:
Martyrs under the altar in heaven. No fatalities are mentioned as a result from this seal.

6Th Seal:
Great earthquake that causes the islands and the mountains to be stirred/jostled in their places. The sun is darkened, the moon turns blood red and the stars (meteorites/asteroids) fall from heaven to the earth. The sky is rolled up like a scroll so that the people of the earth can actually see into heaven with God the Father sitting on the throne and Jesus Christ. Because of this, the inhabitants of the earth are filled with the dread and the fear of God and ask for the mountains and rocks to fall on them (to kill them) in order to be hidden from God's sight. The announcement is made that the great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it. The words "has come" is in the aorist tense, which means that the previous seals are included as being apart of that wrath that has come. In other words, what you have already experienced and what is yet to come, is because of the wrath of the of God.

7Th Seal:
Half hour of silence, incense and prayers go up before God, angels are given their trumpets in preparation for those seven trumpet plagues of wrath.

1st Trumpet:
A third of the earth and a third of the trees are burned up. What is not mentioned and left to the readers understanding is that, if you have a third of the earth and trees being burned up, by whatever is causing it, along with that will be an unknown number of fatalities. For you cannot have a third of the earth and trees being burned up without the people within that third being killed.

2nd Trumpet:
John sees something like a huge mountain all ablaze being thrown into one of the earth's oceans. My take on this is that, in his vision John is saw an asteroid hitting the earth's atmosphere, which would explain his seeing it being on fire. It hits in one of the seas/oceans and the result will be giant tsunami's over a thousand feet high or more traveling 360 degrees to every shore, and destroying all of the creatures in that body of water and destroying all of the ships in that body of water, which will equal a third over all the earth. Once again it is left up to the reader to read between the lines. For if you have a third of the ships being destroyed, then how many people will be on those ships? Also, the Tsunami's that will be generated will not only destroy all of the ships in that body of water, but all of cities that sit on the coasts 360 degrees will be destroyed, as well as cities, towns, and villages within hundreds of miles of every coast. Once again, the number of fatalities from this judgment is unknown, but will be very great!

3rd Trumpet:
John describes something like a great star, like a torch that falls on a third of the rivers and fresh water, poisoning them. The result is that many people die from drinking the water. Again, we have an unknown amount of fatalities, except for the word "many" as a result of this plague of wrath. If you are not convinced that this judgment is from God, who else could cause an asteroid or any other heavenly object to hit the earth? Mankind certainly couldn't be in control of that.

4th Seal:
a third of the sun, moon and stars are darkened in preparation for the next three trumpets, which are referred to as "woes" and that because they are demonic in nature. The result will be that the light from the sun, moon and stars that the earth receives will be reduced by a third, so that there will be a third less light during the day and night.

5th Seal/1st Woe:
A star, which is representing an angel and having the key to the Abyss, falls from heaven to the earth and opens the Abyss. Out of the Abyss comes demonic beings who look like locusts in appearance, that look like horses prepared for battle, having beast plates like breast plates of iron, that have hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth and faces like human faces. They are not given power to kill, but are commanded only to torment the inhabitants of the earth with tails and stings like that of a scorpion. The 144,000 who will have been previously sealed with the seal of God, will be the only one's who are protected from this plague of wrath. Their king is that angel of the Abyss, the beast who comes up out of the Abyss at that time. As a result, there are no fatalities related to this plague of wrath, only torment.

6th Trumpet/2nd Woe:
The four angels that are bound at the great river Euphrates will be released and will gather their army of 200 million demonic beings who will kill a third of what is left of the earth's population with fire, sulfur and smoke that will issue from these beings mouths. The 4th seal and the 6th trumpet are the only two places that give a percentage of the fatalities, a fourth and a third respectively, which will equal approx. 4.5 billion people and that is not counting trumpets 1, 2 and 3 nor the fatalities as a result of the bowl judgments.

7th Trumpet/3rd Woe:
There is war in heaven and Satan, which takes place in the middle of the seven year period and Satan and his angels are thrown to the earth and from that point no longer have access to heaven.

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.” Note: Satan knows that he has 3 1/2 years left before Christ returns and he is thrown into the Abyss.

In case you are under the impression that this is the wrath of Satan, remember, Jesus is the one who will be opening the seals and it is God's holy angels who are throwing Satan and his angels out of heaven, which will allow them to focus their full malice and evil upon the inhabitants of the earth. By the way, in the verse where it says "woe to the inhabitants of the earth" this is representing the third woe.

Now, I have listed all of the above and that off the top of my head. It should be very obvious that the seals and trumpets also apart of God's wrath. If you can't see that, then I don't know what else that I can show you to demonstrate that it will be God who is in control of those plagues of wrath.

The above does not change the fact that it is "God's wrath" and as I said, the words "has come" is in the aorist, which means that the seals are included in that wrath. Also, Jesus is the One opening the seals, making him responsible for the results.

samuel23 · Dec 11, 2016

Bladerunner. Today we are in the same place that the church has been ever since Revelation was written...waiting for the first seal to be opened. Once the first seal is opened it will probably all be over in less then 10 years possibly even 5 years. The first seal(rider on white horse) is the Antichrist and he will begin to take control of this planet in a big way,that has not happened yet. The next three horses correspond to the events of the tribulation that Jesus described in Matt 24 and Mark 13. The fifth seal as part of that tribulation is described as the great persecution of believers in Christ that Jesus said would occur just before His return. The sixth seal is the return of Christ, although the actual gathering of the church is not described yet we have the church in Heaven after the sixth seal and after having gone through the GREAT TRIBULATION. The great tribulation is the exact words Jesus used to describe what would occur just before He returned to gather the believers. So presently we are still waiting for the first seal.

buddyt · Dec 12, 2016

Let me explain my last post. Christ RETURN doesn't mean to dart in and leave. He doesn't come in and grab any who sleep or correctly spoken who are dead. 2 Corinthians 5: 6-8 Therefore WE are always confident knowing that whilst we are at home in the body we are absent from the lord. For we walk by faith not by sight. We are confident I say and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed or the golden bowl be broken or the pitcher be broken at the fountain or the wheel broken at cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Please understand what Paul tells us in 1st Thessalonians verse 13 tells us not to sorrow for those who sleep ( who are dead) verse 14 explains if you believe Jesus died and rose again that we who sleep (or are dead) GOD WILL BRING WITH HIM. It doesn't mean people will pop out of a hole in the ground to be with the Lord. Verse 15&16 tells you the dead are already with him that simple. Your not going anywhere Jesus is coming here. For people to jump in the thought of a Crazy Lady back in the 1800s is beyond me. Ezekiel tells us how God feels about the subject. I for one refuse to disappoint him.

Ahwatukee · Dec 12, 2016

Morning buddyt,

The scripture above is referring to when a believer dies in Christ. While we are present in this body we are away from the Lord. We would prefer to be absent form this body and be in the presence of the Lord. It is speaking about what happens at the time death. The body dies and the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. This is not a resurrection, but is simply what happens to the believers spirit at the time of death. When the unbeliever dies, their spirit departs and goes into Hades. When Christ descends from heaven, he will bring with him all of the spirits/souls of those who will have died in him and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. Immediately after that, those in Christ who are still alive will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then according to John 14:1-3, the Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's to those dwelling places that he went to prepare for us.

I would remind you that the word anastatsis translated resurrection is defined as the physical body standing up again. Jesus is our example of the resurrection in that, he rose in the same body that he was crucified in. The dead in Christ will rise in the same way. God will reanimate those bodies, except they will take on heavenly qualities.

If that were true, then the following would make no sense:

"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voiceand come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Jesus is going to appear in the air and take us back to the Father's house according to the promise below:

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.You know the way to the place where I am going.”

I continue to be amazed at how many people don't even understand the what the blessed hope is. When a believer dies, their spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of Christ. We must also rise in glorified bodies as Jesus did. We will not remain in the spirit. The reason that the living are changed at the time the resurrection takes place is because those people will not be dead in order to be resurrected and so they will just be changed into those immortal and glorified bodies where they stand and will be caught up.

buddyt · Dec 12, 2016

Ahwatukee

You have part of it right. Keep up the study.

samuel23 · Dec 12, 2016

Most places in the bible are easy enough to understand, the conflict comes in because some folks do not like what they are reading and try to change it. On the other hand there are a few places in scripture that are really hard to honestly put together. The resurrection is one of those things. We are told that when a believer dies they go to be with God, we are also told that all those who and are in the graves will hear His voice and come out. These seem to be contradictions. A person would have to be either with God or in the grave. The going idea is that the person is with God but not their physical body, the physical body being in the ground, and that at the resurrection the body will rise and somehow meet the spirit person and they will be united and then the body changed. Problem with that is that the bible presents no picture of the spirit person coming from Heaven and going back into a resurrected body that came up out of the ground. Also Paul said that what goes into the ground(physical body) is NOT what comes forth. I don't see flesh and blood resurrected.

Ahwatukee · Dec 12, 2016

Samuel, there is no contradiction when you understand that there is a difference between the body, which resides in the body. At the time of death. the spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, while the body is buried in the ground awaiting the resurrection. The event of the rich man and Lazarus is a good example of this. Both the rich man and Lazarus died. And while their bodies were buried, their spirits were conscious and aware somewhere else.

The word anastasis translated as resurrection, always has to do with the body standing back up again. To be clear, when a believers spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, that is not a resurrection. It is not until the believers spirit is reunited with the body that it is a resurrection.

Sure it does!

"For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will [bring with Jesus] those who have fallen asleep in him. "

When the Lord descends from heaven, he will bring with him all of those spirits who will have died in Christ and they will be reunited with their now resurrected bodies.

[quote]Also Paul said that what goes into the ground(physical body) is NOT what comes forth. I don't see flesh and blood resurrected[/quote]

This body that decays and has the sinful nature cannot inherit the kingdom of God. When the body is resurrected, it will be an immortal and glorified body fit for heaven. Regarding the resurrected body, it will be a body of flesh and bone just as the Lord's is, but with heavenly characteristics. As proof of this, when Jesus appeared behind closed doors, the disciples were afraid because they though that they had seen a spirit. But Jesus reassures them saying "look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself. A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have." Just as Jesus was raised in the same body that he was crucified in, so also will our bodies be regenerated as flesh and bone bodies, but with heavenly qualities.

Furthermore, I would remind you that believing in the Lord's bodily resurrection is paramount for salvation. Jesus' bodily resurrection is a guarantee that all believers will be resurrected in the same way, i.e. bodily, albeit immortal and glorified. His bodily resurrection was also proof of his being the Son of God (Rom.1:4)

Also, as I have continued to make known, the word anastasis translated resurrection, is defined as the body standing up again. Believers will be resurrected in the same way as Jesus was.

Bladerunner · Dec 12, 2016

samuel23 said:

1. Makes the Supper of the Lamb a Sack lunch as spoken by a very prominent scholar..Yeah,,,Jesus comes down to get the believers, feeds them a little something,,, Probably a fast food type of meal and then brings them back????????

2. Denies the teachings of Imminency... throughout the NT.

3. denies the 70th week of Daniel and no Abomination Desecration.. of the Temple that is never rebuilt.

4. denies the restrainer (Holy Spirit) is to be gone from the earth before the Antichrist can be REVEALED??

5.... There is no Bema Judgements.......

6. there is no one left to populated the earth...Jesus takes us (the church and other believers) up into heaven and all the others have been killed by the great tribulations.

7. denies the teaching of the WORD of GOD that the Church will not go through God's Wrath..1 THes 5:9, rev 3:10

8. How can the Bride come with him when he returns if they are not there yet? Guess we have a quick ride to the top and back....

9...Who are in the Sheep and Goat Judgement of Matthew 25.

10....How can the virgins of matthew 25 buy oil without the mark of the beast

I could go on but guess this is enough....If you who believe in the Post Trib turn a deaf ear to everything the Bible says, then only God can help you and I earnestly Pray that he does for your sake and eternal life.

samuel23 · Dec 12, 2016

Teaching of imminency throughout the New Testament?? Jesus taught the believers that He could not return until AFTER a short period of intense persecution of believers that He called the great tribulation. Paul said Jesus could not return until AFTER the advent of the Antichrist. Jesus told Peter that he would live to be an old man...does that sound like imminent to you? The early church believed that Jesus would return in their life time, the early church NEVER believed that Jesus could return at any moment. You have been the victim of believing bible teachers rather then God. The imminent, invisible, pre-trib rapture of the church was proclaimed by John Darby starting about 1830...it is as false as a three dollar bill but people love it so they believe it. It is like this, Satan came to Jesus and offered to Him the kingdoms of the world without the suffering of the cross...Jesus refused the offer of Satan. Satan has come to the end time church and has offered to them the rapture without the tribulation... and the end time church has gladly accepted the offer of Satan.

Bladerunner · Dec 12, 2016

samuel23 said:

LIke I have said before Samuel23....If you are right,,,I still win because I believe in Jesus Christ and am willing to die for him at anytime. On the other hand, if I am right (and I am), you will know when I and others disappear that what I and others have said here about pre-trib is true. Then and only then will you make that life changing decision you should have already made. To Believe in the WORD of GOD. Good Luck

HisHolly · Dec 12, 2016

How can anyone read Mat 24 and think pretrib is real? Except they be deceived

Rapture Gap

popeye

Guest

popeye

Guest

popeye

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Persuaded

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

HisHolly

Guest