rapture pre or post tribulation

JesusChica1991 · Mar 31, 2013

I've had dreams about the Lord's return since I was 8. I've had three that I remember. Only ONE of them was distinctly related to reading the Left Behind series in one week. The first dream happened when I was 8 and scared to death. The 3rd dream was scary but an awe-wondering dream. That was a dream just last year too. Funny though because the first dream I had when I was 8, it had a Point of Grace song in it "We will see him in the eastern skies. We will meet him in the twinkling of an eye..." (OLD SONG) Jesus literally divided the stormy clouds and rose in the East with a flash across the skies. It was scary but WOAH. I woke up with chills.

Bookends · Mar 31, 2013

Blain said:

Well ok then, we all know it's gonna happen some time in the future. So time is up, but could still be another 2000 years from now, because God time is different.

I'm just not into getting peoples hopes up, many false preachers/teachers did that and were dead wrong. Because it's a big let down if it doesn't happen when you think it will. It's something we should eagerly wait for, but not focus much of our effort on.

Angela53510 · Mar 31, 2013

Still not seeing any scriptures that support the rapture. Just some things about people being taken, which will happen. We will meet Jesus in the air. No doubt that is true.

But where will we go? Is this just for believers, or is this when Jesus returns?? Stay tuned for more info.

I think many have been sadly misled. Jesus is going to return and when he does "every knee shall bow every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

Still not seeing a secret rapture for believers. Just meeting Jesus joyfully in the air, then returning to earth, where he judges the living and the dead.

Blain · Mar 31, 2013

Bookends said:

Well ok then, we all know it's gonna happen some time in the future. So time is up, but could still be another 2000 years from now, because God time is different.

I'm just not into getting peoples hopes up, many false preachers/teachers did that and were dead wrong. Because it's a big let down if it doesn't happen when you think it will.

JesusChica1991 · Mar 31, 2013

I'm just not into getting peoples hopes up, many false preachers/teachers did that and were dead wrong. Because it's a big let down if it doesn't happen when you think it will.

Like Harold Camping for example. He never learned the first time and did it again! I found him hilarious. He gave me reasons to laugh and be like "YOU GET NOTHING!" Like Willy Wonka would say it. I'm ready for Jesus to come back. I can't wait. But like we are taught in Scripture, I'm not gonna stop living my daily life. It will go on UNTIL he comes back. Act normal

Bookends · Mar 31, 2013

Angela53510 said:

Yup, that's what I see too.

Blain · Mar 31, 2013

Angela53510 said:

Once again-Mathew 24:40 This is how it will be at the coming of the son of man; Two men will be working in the field; One will be taken the other left. Two woman will be grinding with a hand mill; One will be taken and the other left

Bookends · Mar 31, 2013

Blain said:

Yes, but the one taken is the one exiting the presence of God. God took all the people at the time of the great flood, but left behind Noah and his family. Though out the whole Bible, the remnant of God's people were always the ones left behind (except in two accounts, Enoch and Elijah).

[h=3]God’s Promise Is Not Slack[/h]3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[SUP][a][/SUP] the apostles of the Lord and Savior, [SUP]3 [/SUP]knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, [SUP]6 [/SUP]by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[SUP][b][/SUP] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
[h=3]The Day of the Lord[/h][SUP]10 [/SUP]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, [SUP]12 [/SUP]looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? [SUP]13 [/SUP]Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

[h=3]Be Steadfast[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; [SUP]15 [/SUP]and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, [SUP]16 [/SUP]as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; [SUP]18 [/SUP]but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

Angela53510 · Mar 31, 2013

As I said, where were they taken? And for how long? This passage is not explicit but 1 Thess. 4:17 is a bit more, especially if you examine the Greek, which I shall do.

"Then we who are alive, who are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

Meet - άπάντηνσις Gk apantesis - This word had the technical meaning in the Hellenistic world related to the visits of dignitaries where the visitor would be formally met by the citizens, or a deputation of them, who went out from the city and would then ceremonially escort him back to the city.

It is used in other places in the in the New Testament.

Once it refers to the people in Rome who went out to meet Paul when he arrived in Italy, to escort him back to Rome.

"And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage." Acts 28:15

Jesus also refers to this, in the parable of the Ten Virgins, which is in fact a metaphor for his return.

"But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’" Matt. 25:6.

No rapture! That word is a Latin Vulgate mistake, made by Jerome who did not know Greek very well.

And nice it is a word that appears elsewhere, since the meaning is very easy to understand.

Go out and MEET Jesus, and then return to earth! One return, one Lord, one Savior.

Blain · Mar 31, 2013

Bookends said:

Yes, but the one taken is the one exiting the presence of God. God took all the people at the time of the great flood, but left behind Noah and his family. Though out the whole Bible, the remnant of God's people were always the ones left behind (except in two accounts, Enoch and Elijah).

God’s Promise Is Not Slack

3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[SUP][a][/SUP] the apostles of the Lord and Savior, [SUP]3 [/SUP]knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, [SUP]6 [/SUP]by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[SUP][b][/SUP] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
The Day of the Lord

[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, [SUP]12 [/SUP]looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? [SUP]13 [/SUP]Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Be Steadfast

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; [SUP]15 [/SUP]and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, [SUP]16 [/SUP]as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; [SUP]18 [/SUP]but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

I gave you the scripture you asked for that's all i have to say

jb · Mar 31, 2013

starfield said:

Well, flipping through them is certainly all you have done (to come up with a pre-trib rapture), it's a pity you didn't bother to put any prayer and study into it!

Earlmayknowornot · Mar 31, 2013

Okay, in the next couple of three days I will start a thread covering the end times. It will probably be the longest post I have ever made. Well, I know it will be. Since this is so controversial and least understood. not that I am the supreme authority over it But, what I have come to understand and what The Holy Spirit has revealed tome in His word. I want to get my facts together and all the scripture that I need. Don't want to shoot from the hip.

Abiding · Mar 31, 2013

I wish people would quit being so presumptuous
to say that the HolySpirit taught them. Its embarrassing
to me to hear 5 people say that in one thread with 6 different
positions.

Why not just say you studied and this is your opinion?

Earlmayknowornot · Mar 31, 2013

Abiding said:

Because I can't understand the scripture unless The Holy Spirit opens it for me. But, on another note I said a couple of three days. But for some reason my kids feel the need to eat everyday. So it may be a little longer. I have to go get that food. Thank God He gives me the means to do so.

Blain · Mar 31, 2013

Earlmayknowornot said:

I will be looking forward to your thread, if the holy spirit has revealed these truths to you it's good you are feeding the hungry for truth such as me:]

Earlmayknowornot · Mar 31, 2013

I will say this before I start snoring and according to my wife I snore like a freight train. I don't hear myself snoring so it doesn't bother me. Anyway, God always supplies means of escape when He is about to destroy something. He gave Noah a way out He gave Lot a way out. He gave the children of Israel a way out. The Prophet Jeremiah told them to go willingly into captivity and He preserved them there. The ones that didn't were killed. They tried to go to Egypt and didn't make it. He will also provide an escape for us. God will never pour out His wrath on his own people. Meaning those that trust Him and worship Him in Spirit and truth. The antichrist will take most of Jerusalem but they will flee to petra. which is an uninhabited city which is modern day Jordan. They area of Edom, Moab, and Ammon.

Earlmayknowornot · Mar 31, 2013

Okay Good nite. Love Yall

CDavid · Mar 31, 2013

starfield said:

You can't escape prison,if you're not in prison.
You can't escape a burning building, if you're not in the building.
You can't escape a sinking ship, if you're not on the ship.
And, you can't escape from the tribulation, if you're not in it.

[SUP]21[/SUP] "For [SUB]v[/SUB] then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22[/SUP] "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; [SUB]w[/SUB] but for the [SUB]4[/SUB] elect's sake those days will be shortened. [SUP]23[/SUP] [SUB]x[/SUB] "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. [SUP]24[/SUP] "For [SUB]y[/SUB] false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, [SUB]z[/SUB] if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25[/SUP] "See, I have told you beforehand. [SUP]26[/SUP] "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. [SUP]27[/SUP] [SUB]a[/SUB] "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 [SUB]b[/SUB] "For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. [SUP]29[/SUP] [SUB]c[/SUB] "Immediately after the tribulation of those days [SUB]d[/SUB] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30[/SUP] [SUB]e[/SUB] "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, [SUB]f[/SUB] and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] [SUB]g[/SUB] "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [SUB]5[/SUB] elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Tribulation; Vs.21
Second Advent; Vs.30
"Gather together His elect"/rapture; Vs.31
Straight from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Beware the false christ; Vs.24 he will "show great signs and wonders to deceive, [SUB]z[/SUB] if possible, even the elect." I wonder if this false christ just might think to make people fly up in the air.

peterT · Apr 1, 2013

starfield said:

It’s funny how you used the story of the days of Noah and the flood to express your pre-trib rapture view

But when Jesus used that same story that you are quoting, he said

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Jesus used the same story about Noah for his coming after the tribulation. why are you using the story to say before the tribulation? when Jesus used that story for Immediately after the tribulation.

You have twisted Jesus’s words to fit your doctrine, that’s not good bro.

peterT · Apr 1, 2013

Bookends said:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The son of man comes in the clouds

he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

We meet the lord in the air, one shall be taken, and the other left.

It doesn’t say anything about Gods people being the one left behind

rapture pre or post tribulation

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