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Predestination and election is clearly taught in scripture. Please click and read the link: http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...tion-freewill-sovereignty-god.html#post888624
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Two Blind Men Healed
27 When Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out and saying, “Son of David, have mercy on us!”
28 And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?”
They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.”
29 Then He touched their eyes, saying,“According to your faith let it be to you.” 30 And their eyes were opened.
Who's faith was it?
27 When Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out and saying, “Son of David, have mercy on us!”
28 And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?”
They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.”
29 Then He touched their eyes, saying,“According to your faith let it be to you.” 30 And their eyes were opened.
Who's faith was it?
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Luke 7:50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”
1 Corinthians 2:5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
Peter 1:9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Corinthians 2:5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
Peter 1:9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
THEY WERE BLIND!!!
how did they know He was The Son of David unless God had revealed it to them spiritually (this is just like Peter's confession)?!
and they calling Him Son of David is an important part of that event.
how did they know He was The Son of David unless God had revealed it to them spiritually (this is just like Peter's confession)?!
and they calling Him Son of David is an important part of that event.
as direct answer to the question i can only post this:
Luke 10
21At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, “I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 22“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
boulomai: to will
Original Word: βούλομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: boulomai
Phonetic Spelling: (boo'-lom-ahee)
Short Definition: I will, intend, desire
Definition: I will, intend, desire, wish.
Cognate: 1014 boúlomai – to plan with full resolve (determination). See 1012 (boulē.
1014 /boúlomai ("resolutely plan") is a strong term that underlines the predetermined (and determined) intention driving the planning (wishing, resolving). In contrast, 2309 (thélō focuses on the desire ("wishfulness") behind making an offer (cf. TDNT, 1, 629).
[While God's "thelō-offers" can be rejected (see 2309 /thélō, His 1014 /boúlomai ("planning") always works out His purpose, especially in conjunction with presetting the physical scenes of history.]
Luke 10
21At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, “I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 22“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
boulomai: to will
Original Word: βούλομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: boulomai
Phonetic Spelling: (boo'-lom-ahee)
Short Definition: I will, intend, desire
Definition: I will, intend, desire, wish.
Cognate: 1014 boúlomai – to plan with full resolve (determination). See 1012 (boulē
.1014 /boúlomai ("resolutely plan") is a strong term that underlines the predetermined (and determined) intention driving the planning (wishing, resolving). In contrast, 2309 (thélō
focuses on the desire ("wishfulness") behind making an offer (cf. TDNT, 1, 629).[While God's "thelō-offers" can be rejected (see 2309 /thélō
, His 1014 /boúlomai ("planning") always works out His purpose, especially in conjunction with presetting the physical scenes of history.]
as direct answer to the question i can only post this:
Luke 10
21At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, “I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 22“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
boulomai: to will
Original Word: βούλομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: boulomai
Phonetic Spelling: (boo'-lom-ahee)
Short Definition: I will, intend, desire
Definition: I will, intend, desire, wish.
Cognate: 1014 boúlomai – to plan with full resolve (determination). See 1012 (boulē.
1014 /boúlomai ("resolutely plan") is a strong term that underlines the predetermined (and determined) intention driving the planning (wishing, resolving). In contrast, 2309 (thélō focuses on the desire ("wishfulness") behind making an offer (cf. TDNT, 1, 629).
[While God's "thelō-offers" can be rejected (see 2309 /thélō, His 1014 /boúlomai ("planning") always works out His purpose, especially in conjunction with presetting the physical scenes of history.]
Luke 10
21At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, “I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 22“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
boulomai: to will
Original Word: βούλομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: boulomai
Phonetic Spelling: (boo'-lom-ahee)
Short Definition: I will, intend, desire
Definition: I will, intend, desire, wish.
Cognate: 1014 boúlomai – to plan with full resolve (determination). See 1012 (boulē
.1014 /boúlomai ("resolutely plan") is a strong term that underlines the predetermined (and determined) intention driving the planning (wishing, resolving). In contrast, 2309 (thélō
focuses on the desire ("wishfulness") behind making an offer (cf. TDNT, 1, 629).[While God's "thelō-offers" can be rejected (see 2309 /thélō
, His 1014 /boúlomai ("planning") always works out His purpose, especially in conjunction with presetting the physical scenes of history.]
Now interpret that in light of these for me:
Acts 10:34
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him."
,
Romans 2:11
11 For there is no partiality with God.
and
and Psalms 145:9
9 The Lord is good to all,
And His tender mercies are over all His works.
It is true that "God is not a respecter of persons"?
Question, Is Him found in the copies of the original texts?
Luk 10:22 AndG2532 turningG4762 toG4314 theG3588 disciplesG3101 he said,G2036 All things G3956 were delivered upG3860 to meG1473 byG5259 G3588 my father;G3962 G1473 andG2532 no oneG3762 knowsG1097 whoG5100 isG1510.2.3 theG3588 son,G5207 exceptG1508 theG3588 father,G3962 andG2532 whoG5100 isG1510.2.3 theG3588 father,G3962 exceptG1508 theG3588 son,G5207 andG2532 to whomG3739 everG1437 [3wantsG1014 1theG3588 2son]G5207 to reveal.G601 Apostolic Bible Polygot
Luk 10:22 AndG2532 turningG4762 toG4314 theG3588 disciplesG3101 he said,G2036 All things G3956 were delivered upG3860 to meG1473 byG5259 G3588 my father;G3962 G1473 andG2532 no oneG3762 knowsG1097 whoG5100 isG1510.2.3 theG3588 son,G5207 exceptG1508 theG3588 father,G3962 andG2532 whoG5100 isG1510.2.3 theG3588 father,G3962 exceptG1508 theG3588 son,G5207 andG2532 to whomG3739 everG1437 [3wantsG1014 1theG3588 2son]G5207 to reveal.G601 Apostolic Bible Polygot
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This is an OP by me on this forum. According to you God is not sovereign in who He chooses to save. He must respond to each one's choice. If He is not sovereign He is not God.
Romans 8:29-30
New King James Version (NKJV)
29 For whom He foreknew*, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
*God's foreknowledge in not used to know what man will do i.e. receive or reject Jesus, but what God will do to ensure his predestined plan will happen which includes this:
2 Timothy 1:9
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
His predestined elect saints are not glorified yet, but the tense indicates God sees it done and has since before creation.
Ephesians 1:4-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you* by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
* effectual grace
Romans 8:29-30
New King James Version (NKJV)
29 For whom He foreknew*, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
*God's foreknowledge in not used to know what man will do i.e. receive or reject Jesus, but what God will do to ensure his predestined plan will happen which includes this:
2 Timothy 1:9
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
His predestined elect saints are not glorified yet, but the tense indicates God sees it done and has since before creation.
Ephesians 1:4-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you* by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
* effectual grace
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lesjude: "This is an OP by me on this forum. According to you God is not sovereign in who He chooses to save. He must respond to each one's choice. If He is not sovereign He is not God. "
tell me how logic or reason tell you that God cant be sovereign in making salvation any way He wants, or that having man partaking in his choice robs Him of His sovereignty.
tell me how logic or reason tell you that God cant be sovereign in making salvation any way He wants, or that having man partaking in his choice robs Him of His sovereignty.
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You did not prove anything. Just your own opininion
Again I return to the genesis john debate. Moments after sin entered the world, God gave a promise. Gen 3: 15. In thousands of years later, He let us know what that promise meant.
For God so loved the world, that whosever (meaning some may, and some may not) believes in him will not die, but have eternal life.
John tells us another amazing thing.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
It is Quite clear.
1. God did not come to save those who chose, he came to save those who would believe.
2. God did not give the right to become children of God to those he chose. He gave this right to those who received him, by belief in his name.
Again I return to the genesis john debate. Moments after sin entered the world, God gave a promise. Gen 3: 15. In thousands of years later, He let us know what that promise meant.
For God so loved the world, that whosever (meaning some may, and some may not) believes in him will not die, but have eternal life.
John tells us another amazing thing.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
It is Quite clear.
1. God did not come to save those who chose, he came to save those who would believe.
2. God did not give the right to become children of God to those he chose. He gave this right to those who received him, by belief in his name.
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this is the part I will never understand.
When a loving father gives his child the means and way to chose something, Does the kid get credit for chosing, or did the father get the glory for providing for his children? And even if the child said no. would not the father still get credit for showing his true love in the first place. even though the child did not have faith in him?
This is the way with God. He gets ALL the credit for those who chose to trust him, He even gets credit for those who choose to say no. Because he offerred it to them anyway.
When a loving father gives his child the means and way to chose something, Does the kid get credit for chosing, or did the father get the glory for providing for his children? And even if the child said no. would not the father still get credit for showing his true love in the first place. even though the child did not have faith in him?
This is the way with God. He gets ALL the credit for those who chose to trust him, He even gets credit for those who choose to say no. Because he offerred it to them anyway.
E
A loving father gives two people the offer of a gift. This gift happens to the the gift which will save his life.
1 child chooses to trust his father and say yes, and lives forever.
the other child chooses to say no because of lack of faith, and dies for eternity.
Can the one who chose in faith to say yes boast of his self. and take credit? NO! Why?
The father offered the same gift to both children. Neither child earned the gift. Neither child could save himself. Thus the gift was based solely on the father's love, not the work of the children. Thus neither child could boast of anything, Because both SHOULD have been saved. The child that was saved did not earn this gift anymore than the child that was not. so he could not take credit, or boast of anything.
1 child chooses to trust his father and say yes, and lives forever.
the other child chooses to say no because of lack of faith, and dies for eternity.
Can the one who chose in faith to say yes boast of his self. and take credit? NO! Why?
The father offered the same gift to both children. Neither child earned the gift. Neither child could save himself. Thus the gift was based solely on the father's love, not the work of the children. Thus neither child could boast of anything, Because both SHOULD have been saved. The child that was saved did not earn this gift anymore than the child that was not. so he could not take credit, or boast of anything.