Recovering from the Matt. 28:19 Baptism formula. Pro-Christ Gentile save thyself.
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C
It is hard for me to believe anything which is not directly told me from Scripture. Since, as far as I know, it is hyper-Scripture, I will have to have Scripture shown me where you obtained this understanding. And not knowing where you are spiritually coming from, I will withhold any notions either way.
P.S. I simply cannot accept the unnecessity of not willing to explain from where you are coming from on the notion that some things are beyond explanation because of their illumiousness. So, if you would, I ask that you show me where spiritually calling upon the Lord while under the water can be concluded from certain verses.
I will also ask others why they think this is unscripitual and what are the "Everlasting" consequences of believing this? That is, what harm would it cause a soul in eternity?
--Chris
P.S. I simply cannot accept the unnecessity of not willing to explain from where you are coming from on the notion that some things are beyond explanation because of their illumiousness. So, if you would, I ask that you show me where spiritually calling upon the Lord while under the water can be concluded from certain verses.
I will also ask others why they think this is unscripitual and what are the "Everlasting" consequences of believing this? That is, what harm would it cause a soul in eternity?
--Chris
Hello D,
You are smart in wanting to do it acceptably before GOD.
In the Jewish/ Israelite religion there is what is called 'the mouth to ear tradition'
It is the communication of secrets that the Apostles call 'mysteries'
for example:
1 Tim.3
[9] Holding the mystery (SECRET) of the faith in a pure (honest) conscience.
What is the mystery?
The people whom he wrote to knew.
These things are never written but only spoken to the worhty.
If you immerse and never call on the LORD (Jesus) then he will not rspond.
You can try that.
Then do it again calling on him for forgiveness and help from under the water.
You will immediately know the difference.
Do not worry about people saying any negative thing.
Jesus responds to those who come to him.
John.6
[37] All who the Father gives to me shall come to me;
and him/ her who comes to me I will in no wise cast out.
Do it and start enjoying the NEW life with help from GOD and his Son.
Grace to you,
You are smart in wanting to do it acceptably before GOD.
In the Jewish/ Israelite religion there is what is called 'the mouth to ear tradition'
It is the communication of secrets that the Apostles call 'mysteries'
for example:
1 Tim.3
[9] Holding the mystery (SECRET) of the faith in a pure (honest) conscience.
What is the mystery?
The people whom he wrote to knew.
These things are never written but only spoken to the worhty.
If you immerse and never call on the LORD (Jesus) then he will not rspond.
You can try that.
Then do it again calling on him for forgiveness and help from under the water.
You will immediately know the difference.
Do not worry about people saying any negative thing.
Jesus responds to those who come to him.
John.6
[37] All who the Father gives to me shall come to me;
and him/ her who comes to me I will in no wise cast out.
Do it and start enjoying the NEW life with help from GOD and his Son.
Grace to you,
Check out this old example.
"The deacon raised his hand, and Publius Decius stepped through the baptistery door.
Standing waist-deep in the pool was Marcus Vasca the wood seller.
He was smiling as Publius waded into the pool beside him.
'Credis?' he asked.
Credo' responded Publius.
'I believe that my salvation comes from Jesus the Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
With Him I died that with Him I may have Eternal Life.'
Then he felt strong arms supporting him as he let himself fall backward into the pool,
and heard Marcus' voice in his ear,
'I baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus'
as the cold water closed over (buried) him."
If you believe that the man was >> buried and the name of the LORD called over him
then why can't you believe that the candidate called on the LORD himself like the Scripture says:
Acts.2
[21] And it shall come to pass,
that >> whosoever (the person who) shall >> call on the name of the Lord << shall be saved.
Acts.22
[16] And now why tarriest thou?
arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, >> calling on the name of the Lord.<<
Num.6
[27] And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.
You must have faith that if you are coming to Jesus, like GOD wants you to do then he will not
even let you drown.
If I divulge my source it will be even harder for you to believe.
Look at John the baptist. Did he name his source?
John.1
[32] And John bare record, saying
I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
[33] And I knew him not: but >> he (??) who sent me to baptize with water,
the same (??) said unto me,
Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him,
the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
[34] And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
I'll tell you, that many whom Jesus did not send
and have been baptizing incorrectly are in trouble with him.
Deut.18
[20] But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
[21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
[22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
If the Holy Spirit does not move you to do it then just carry on until....
but keep asking Jesus to lead you.
Take care,
Time Magazine, Dec. 5, 1955: Record of a True Baptism in Rome 100 A.D.
Standing waist-deep in the pool was Marcus Vasca the wood seller.
He was smiling as Publius waded into the pool beside him.
'Credis?' he asked.
Credo' responded Publius.
'I believe that my salvation comes from Jesus the Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
With Him I died that with Him I may have Eternal Life.'
Then he felt strong arms supporting him as he let himself fall backward into the pool,
and heard Marcus' voice in his ear,
'I baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus'
as the cold water closed over (buried) him."
If you believe that the man was >> buried and the name of the LORD called over him
then why can't you believe that the candidate called on the LORD himself like the Scripture says:
Acts.2
[21] And it shall come to pass,
that >> whosoever (the person who) shall >> call on the name of the Lord << shall be saved.
Acts.22
[16] And now why tarriest thou?
arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, >> calling on the name of the Lord.<<
Num.6
[27] And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.
You must have faith that if you are coming to Jesus, like GOD wants you to do then he will not
even let you drown.
If I divulge my source it will be even harder for you to believe.
Look at John the baptist. Did he name his source?
John.1
[32] And John bare record, saying
I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
[33] And I knew him not: but >> he (??) who sent me to baptize with water,
the same (??) said unto me,
Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him,
the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
[34] And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
I'll tell you, that many whom Jesus did not send
and have been baptizing incorrectly are in trouble with him.
Deut.18
[20] But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
[21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
[22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
If the Holy Spirit does not move you to do it then just carry on until....
but keep asking Jesus to lead you.
Take care,
apparently under the water, if your "secret knowledge" is to be believed.
must all things be done under water? should we also feed the hungry, take care of the widows and the poor under water? are prayers on dry ground heard? should we study the word also while we are under water? perhaps the apostles secretly taught that we should only tithe while underwater, and instructed that this rite should never be written down, but only a random internet guy would reveal the true teaching to us in the latter days..
.. are you going to get in trouble for putting these secret gnosticisms in writing?
try believing on Him without mystical ritual. you may begin a relationship with Christ in this way that will amaze you!
Hello,
I have been through amazement and shock.
Christ, our Judge, knows what is happening, and where the loyalty is.
Phil.3
[17] Brethren, be followers together of me (Paul),
and mark them who walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
[18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping,
that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
[19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly,
and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
People should know that GOD and Christ, though invisible, cannot be decieved.
Jesus would NEVER violate the Word that the Apostles preached,
BUT he could blind some to the truth adn keep them happy there.
were the Jews blinded.
Did they know that they were blinded.
2 Pet.2
[9] The LORD (Jesus) knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to >> reserve the unjust<< unto the day of judgment to be punished:
[10] But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness,
and despise government (the Apostles Doctrine).
Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. (the Apostles)
Things repeat because, when it comes to GOD, people NEVER learn.
Take care of yourself.
Be incensed against disrespect for our LORD Jesus Christ.
Grace to you.
I have been through amazement and shock.
Christ, our Judge, knows what is happening, and where the loyalty is.
Phil.3
[17] Brethren, be followers together of me (Paul),
and mark them who walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
[18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping,
that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
[19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly,
and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
People should know that GOD and Christ, though invisible, cannot be decieved.
Jesus would NEVER violate the Word that the Apostles preached,
BUT he could blind some to the truth adn keep them happy there.
were the Jews blinded.
Did they know that they were blinded.
2 Pet.2
[9] The LORD (Jesus) knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to >> reserve the unjust<< unto the day of judgment to be punished:
[10] But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness,
and despise government (the Apostles Doctrine).
Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. (the Apostles)
Things repeat because, when it comes to GOD, people NEVER learn.
Take care of yourself.
Be incensed against disrespect for our LORD Jesus Christ.
Grace to you.
to call on the name of the LORD isn't strictly an apostolic doctrine.
throughout the Psalms:
As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me
(Psalm 55:16)
Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
(Psalm 50:14-15)
O give thanks unto the LORD; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people.
(Psalm 105:1)
I call to you, Lord, come quickly to me;
hear me when I call to you.
May my prayer be set before you like incense;
may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice.
(Psalm 141:1-2)
I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
(Psalm 18:3)
The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.
(Psalm 145:18)
i get that at all times we should call on the name of the Lord - in thanksgiving, in desperation, in praise, in weakness, in sorrow, in joy!
you may as well be saying that one must believe under the water to be truly baptized. all of these Psalms are songs meant to be sung and i don't believe they have to be sung underwater to be genuinely expressed.
calling on the LORD is placing in Him trust. inasmuch as faith without works is dead faith, it's true that if when performing the outward sign of water baptism, the heart itself is not also baptized unto Christ, the ritual act is meaningless.
real baptism is not a mere physical act.
The Lord says:
"These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught."
(Isaiah 29:13)
throughout the Psalms:
As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me
(Psalm 55:16)
Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
(Psalm 50:14-15)
O give thanks unto the LORD; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people.
(Psalm 105:1)
I call to you, Lord, come quickly to me;
hear me when I call to you.
May my prayer be set before you like incense;
may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice.
(Psalm 141:1-2)
I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
(Psalm 18:3)
The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.
(Psalm 145:18)
i get that at all times we should call on the name of the Lord - in thanksgiving, in desperation, in praise, in weakness, in sorrow, in joy!
you may as well be saying that one must believe under the water to be truly baptized. all of these Psalms are songs meant to be sung and i don't believe they have to be sung underwater to be genuinely expressed.
calling on the LORD is placing in Him trust. inasmuch as faith without works is dead faith, it's true that if when performing the outward sign of water baptism, the heart itself is not also baptized unto Christ, the ritual act is meaningless.
real baptism is not a mere physical act.
The Lord says:
"These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught."
(Isaiah 29:13)
Hello,
Calling on the LORD continued with the people of Christ.
I understand you, verify your loyalty and ......
We must accept the Teachers whom GOD gave to us.
Check out the prophesies but I do not think that you willbe bothered.
I do not have to force anyone and I do not make any money from my involvment.
Keep well.
Jesus, the despised one is the Judge.
Calling on the LORD continued with the people of Christ.
I understand you, verify your loyalty and ......
We must accept the Teachers whom GOD gave to us.
Check out the prophesies but I do not think that you willbe bothered.
I do not have to force anyone and I do not make any money from my involvment.
Keep well.
Jesus, the despised one is the Judge.
Hello Sir,
That is true BUT that is living in DEATH and not LIFE.
1 John.2
[28] And now, little children, abide in (fellowship with) Christ
so that, when he appears, we may have confidence
and not be ashamed before him at his return.
Now that talks about a people who are having an association with Jesus.
When he comes he is no stranger to them neither are they to him.
That is real Christianity and the blessed life, like David.
Wherever David went God was with him.
BAPTISM is the GATE through which ones goes.
I am specifying that the candidate call on Jesus while >> under the water << for pardon etc.
Any other way and you get wet only....
Now, it is easy to know that this is weird and new and people will question so why do I do it?
It is the will of GOD and Christ and it is quaranteed to work.
As usual all people will not believe and act but only those whom the Father calls to his Son.
Take care,
That is true BUT that is living in DEATH and not LIFE.
1 John.2
[28] And now, little children, abide in (fellowship with) Christ
so that, when he appears, we may have confidence
and not be ashamed before him at his return.
Now that talks about a people who are having an association with Jesus.
When he comes he is no stranger to them neither are they to him.
That is real Christianity and the blessed life, like David.
Wherever David went God was with him.
BAPTISM is the GATE through which ones goes.
I am specifying that the candidate call on Jesus while >> under the water << for pardon etc.
Any other way and you get wet only....
Now, it is easy to know that this is weird and new and people will question so why do I do it?
It is the will of GOD and Christ and it is quaranteed to work.
As usual all people will not believe and act but only those whom the Father calls to his Son.
Take care,
If you say so 
tc
tc
That is what this 'religion is about' GOD with you like he was with David or the Prophets.
You have to stop being a ' pew warmer' as my friend calls it and you strike it big.
Nothing that you can get from Philosohers called Theologians.
You saw the baptism method do it and enjoy.
If you're not sure about some detail about it will do my best to explain.
Grace is multiple,simultaneous, unspeakable.
GOD the Father knows his children.
The LORD knows them who are his.
You will know, by the Spirit. who the real heretics are.
Enjoy,
D
I really think you should pray about this. This sounds really ridiculous. I cried out to Jesus face down in a hospital bed and my life was changed. I've never been immersed in the water before. I do believe that Jesus commanded me to do that but it's not a requirement in order to have your life changed and to know Jesus.
Your claim sounds really..... cult-ish.
I'll be praying for you.
God bless.
Hello
Many say cult but the Apostles taught the Baptism and Jesus was with them.
Why is it that only a few people know that.
I will answer : because only a few are diligently seeking GOD and not people.
Please don't be concerned about me but thank you.
That shows that you have some goodness in you.
I am where everyone cannot believe because of the same reason that Jesus could not believed.
Why do you think that the Prophets were killed or Jesus or the Apostles and converts?
It is for the same reason that you feel.
Do you know that Jesus was called mad?
John.10
[20] And many of them said, He has a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
I truly appreciate your genuine care.
One day you will know who the real heretics are and who did not stick with GOD' Doctrine.
Just like the Jews changed GOD's law so did the Gentiles.
It was too easy for us to observe their error and avoid it.
Anyway, Bible transl. is nto teh answer. Jesus is.
The best to you.
Many say cult but the Apostles taught the Baptism and Jesus was with them.
Why is it that only a few people know that.
I will answer : because only a few are diligently seeking GOD and not people.
Please don't be concerned about me but thank you.
That shows that you have some goodness in you.
I am where everyone cannot believe because of the same reason that Jesus could not believed.
Why do you think that the Prophets were killed or Jesus or the Apostles and converts?
It is for the same reason that you feel.
Do you know that Jesus was called mad?
John.10
[20] And many of them said, He has a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
I truly appreciate your genuine care.
One day you will know who the real heretics are and who did not stick with GOD' Doctrine.
Just like the Jews changed GOD's law so did the Gentiles.
It was too easy for us to observe their error and avoid it.
Anyway, Bible transl. is nto teh answer. Jesus is.
The best to you.
D
Again, I am praying for you.
I am not arguing over this any longer.
I KNOW what happened to me that night in the hospital. My hospital bed was NOT under the water when I called on the name of our Lord Jesus. My life has completely changed.
And never EVER accuse me of not diligently seeking after God. I have been seeking God since I cried out to Jesus.
This is a Christian website FULL of believers. Yes, there are people here who don't genuinely believe but for the most part people here are sincere about their relationship with Jesus.
We are supposed to representatives of our Lord Christ Jesus, STOP falsely representing him!
Good Day.